September 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo for iOS

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, yes... but the new OpenGL canvas can help here ('m guessing) the StackVM can help too... some other tweaks can be implemented (yes, yes... time is tyrant :) ) cheers, Esteban El 22/09/2011, a las 10:30a.m., Alexandre Bergel escribiÃ³: >> Yea, I know it works. But the question is how good? I remember there were some issues with "clicking"? What about gestures? Will Pharo apps feel "natural" on iPad/iPhone? etc, etcâ¦ And in general, is it reasonable to push Smalltalk development for this platform now, or is it better to wait and start from "native" programming right now? > > The interface is clearly slow. Using Pharo on iphone/ipad is still experimental. > >> Do you mean John McIntosh and his SmallWiki and Fractions Calculator? > > Yes. > > Alexandre > >> >> >> On 22 Sep 2011, at 06:46, Dennis Schetinin wrote: >> >>> What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based applications? >>> >>> -- >>> Dennis Schetinin >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Dennis Schetinin > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > >

Sept. 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo for iOS

by Alexandre Bergel

> Yea, I know it works. But the question is how good? I remember there were some issues with "clicking"? What about gestures? Will Pharo apps feel "natural" on iPad/iPhone? etc, etcâ¦ And in general, is it reasonable to push Smalltalk development for this platform now, or is it better to wait and start from "native" programming right now? The interface is clearly slow. Using Pharo on iphone/ipad is still experimental. > Do you mean John McIntosh and his SmallWiki and Fractions Calculator? Yes. Alexandre > > > On 22 Sep 2011, at 06:46, Dennis Schetinin wrote: > > > What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based applications? > > > > -- > > Dennis Schetinin > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > -- > Dennis Schetinin -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Sept. 22, 2011

[Pharo-project] Integrating Changes in 1.4 that require a new VM

by Dimitry Golubovsky

Hi, Markus Denker wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are two changesets waiting for integrating in 1.4 that have serious consequences: - Ephemerons. The VM level changes are in the Cog VMs build on Jenkins, but have not been integrated in the VMMaker codebase. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4265 - Finalization code checks for #hasNewFinalization This is true in the current VMs build in Jenkins, but in older VMs this is not in. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4483 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Since my Android-related branch has not been integrated into the mainline: where should I merge this from to be in sync? Is this back-compatible with Pharo 1.3? Thanks. -- Dimitry Golubovsky Anywhere on the Web

Sept. 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo for iOS

by Dennis Schetinin

2011/9/22 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> > I have Pharo running on my ipad. > I just followed instruction of Bert and it works like a charm. This is not > accesible via itune however, but, it is perfectly okay to have pharo > applications on it. Yea, I know it works. But the question is how good? I remember there were some issues with "clicking"? What about gestures? Will Pharo apps feel "natural" on iPad/iPhone? etc, etcâ¦ And in general, is it reasonable to push Smalltalk development for this platform now, or is it better to wait and start from "native" programming right now? > John has a couple of them > Do you mean John McIntosh and his SmallWiki and Fractions Calculator? It looks like he is not using Smalltalk for his recent apps, though I'm possilbly mistaken. But if so, it's interesting why? :) > Alexandre > > > On 22 Sep 2011, at 06:46, Dennis Schetinin wrote: > > > What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using > Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS > development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based > applications? > > > > -- > > Dennis Schetinin > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > -- Dennis Schetinin

Sept. 22, 2011

[Pharo-project] thoughts of a tired but happy man...

by Torsten Bergmann

Laszlo Zsolt Kiss wrote: >think about my son Patrik (4 and half years >old) , who every week "working" with Pharo Tell us more ... what is he doing with Pharo? Would have expected that he use Scratch or EToys who are more kids oriented systems. Bye T. -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de

Sept. 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo for iOS

by Alexandre Bergel

I have Pharo running on my ipad. I just followed instruction of Bert and it works like a charm. This is not accesible via itune however, but, it is perfectly okay to have pharo applications on it. John has a couple of them Alexandre On 22 Sep 2011, at 06:46, Dennis Schetinin wrote: > What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based applications? > > -- > Dennis Schetinin -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Sept. 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Integrating Changes in 1.4 that require a new VM

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> >> In any case, I am in favor to go ahead and change. >> Moreover, I am not sure it is a big deal here, since it will not impact application code. > > The problems are: > > - people have to use the VM from > https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Cog/ > So older Vms (with more or different plugins, for example) are not possible. > > - there is no way to double check if a bug is specific to the Jenkins build indeed this is the key question. Now it would be good to brand the vm first.

Sept. 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Integrating Changes in 1.4 that require a new VM

by Marcus Denker

On Sep 22, 2011, at 12:07 PM, Luc Fabresse wrote: > > > 2011/9/22 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > Hi, > > There are two changesets waiting for integrating in 1.4 that have serious consequences: > > - Ephemerons. The VM level changes are in the Cog VMs build on Jenkins, but have not > been integrated in the VMMaker codebase. > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4265 > > - Finalization code checks for #hasNewFinalization > This is true in the current VMs build in Jenkins, but in older VMs this is not in. > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4483 > > There are two options: > > a) integrate in > b) not integrate it > > a) means that the image runs on older VMs, too. > > "runs" or "will not run"? Not run. > In any case, I am in favor to go ahead and change. > Moreover, I am not sure it is a big deal here, since it will not impact application code. The problems are: - people have to use the VM from https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Cog/ So older Vms (with more or different plugins, for example) are not possible. - there is no way to double check if a bug is specific to the Jenkins build Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Sept. 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Integrating Changes in 1.4 that require a new VM

by Luc Fabresse

2011/9/22 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > Hi, > > There are two changesets waiting for integrating in 1.4 that have serious > consequences: > > - Ephemerons. The VM level changes are in the Cog VMs build on Jenkins, but > have not > been integrated in the VMMaker codebase. > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4265 > > - Finalization code checks for #hasNewFinalization > This is true in the current VMs build in Jenkins, but in older VMs this is > not in. > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4483 > > There are two options: > > a) integrate in > b) not integrate it > > a) means that the image runs on older VMs, too. > "runs" or "will not run"? because if it runs, it is not a problem no? b) means we accept that we can never improve anything for real. > > There will be more changes coming... e.g. imagine we have a Vector Graphics > Canvas > as some point next year... what will we do? use it or not use it to stay > compatible? > In any case, I am in favor to go ahead and change. Moreover, I am not sure it is a big deal here, since it will not impact application code. It will be probably different for the new Vector Graphics Canvas. Luc > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > >

Sept. 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo for iOS

by Marcus Denker

On Sep 22, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Dennis Schetinin wrote: > What is the state of the art and nearest perspectives of using Pharo/Squea (or maybe some other Smalltalk implementation) for iOS development? And does Apple officially allow to Smalltalk-based applications? Yes, the only restrictions are as much as I understand: -> No JIT (so no Cog and no Nativeboost. But both are not ported to ARM anyway) -> No loading of code from the network Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Sept. 22, 2011