August 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] GUI failing apart

by Nicolas Cellier

2011/8/8 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> >> >> OK, some clean up was required, but you see, you can make things worse >> when cleaning... > > Yes but in average this is really not the case. > >> It's like Pharo cleaning removed the antidote, but forgot to remove >> the poison... > > Ok that kinds of things happens in ugly, undocumented, obsolete systems. > >> Now, of course, instead of a local polishing, it would be possible to >> rewrite all. > > I'm starting to write tests for the events. Now since you are at it, I guess that you read this wonderful code > full of hypothesis and other subtle strange behavior. So I'm quite sure that they will be problems. > But we will fix them. Else we should stop now and do Javascript because at least we will look cool. > Oh, If your goal is to remain popular, then indeeed, you should keep away from changing such parts of the system which are not shining ;). The obvious reason is that multilayer hacks with obfuscated contracts are not maintanable... so it's inevitable to create bugs in the transition and harvest complaints... Of course, if your goal is to make the system more simple and maintanable, I'm with you (and I know it is). But don't forget to extract the positive part of complaints that will help you making the system better. Personnally, the finite state machine logic in Squeak/MouseOverHandler is well beyond my understanding. So I could not clean it easily myself, A cosmetic cleaning was attempted in Pharo.I have nothing against that. I just pointed a problem in current cleaning, so it just have to be finished. The stincky ivar mutation already was in Squeak. I just said that it should raise an alarm in coder's eyes in the future and I hope this helps. Otherwise I can also shut up. The second approach suggested by Igor is more involving, consist in a full rewrite, probably with these stages: - gather description of the features to be supported, - an inventory of third party interested in this kind of features, - and from there, decline a new definition of contracts. >> But please, don't do it blindly and loose 2 third of features like the >> new implementors window :( > > We are not doing things blindly: > > Â Â Â Â First it costs us money, time and we should all the lucky that Ben was really good and enjoy rewriting us boring UI > Â Â Â Â without a decent widgets set (because he fixed them also the multiselection and others). > Â Â Â Â Benjamin I publicly thank you for all the good stuff you did!!!! > > > Â Â Â Â Second, what are these 2 thirds that we lost? Because two third is a lot. I'm dreaming to throw away two third of the stringHolder hierarCrap > Â Â Â Â Please hightlight me. > > Sorry but I do not like this kind of statements because there are false and because we work hard to bring to life > a system full of shit. Shit that was accumulated and of course stable because it did not move since years. > In addition if everytime a guy spend 4 months to build a new tools we all complain (without constructive points to help him fixing that) > better say to students that they are idiots and that we do not need their help. But in that case be ready to be with the same ugly system > in the future. And we do not accept that. So there will be some glitches but we are stronger than them and we will fix them. > > Nicolas I'm quite sure that you would not say that around a beer to benjamin because I know you so pay attention because > Ben is also one of the coolest students we got recently and we really liked his spirit and atttitude. Jumping in StringHolder and broken/duplicated widgets > is not easy, nor it is to work on bootstrapping Pharo. > > Stef > > Sure, I don't want to restrain goodwill. But as a user of the service I don't see all the sweat the hardworkers put into the system, I just see a regression that makes my life harder (I simply cannot track the messages with the new windows). And obviously, comparing the length of old menu with new one, two third does not seem exagerated to me. But maybe you don't work with those tools and install OB/RB after each update... Nicolas >> >> Nicolas >> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>> >>> >> > > >

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] On the way to 1.3 Release: images

by Sean P. DeNigris

marcus.denker wrote: > > For 1.4, we want to not have multiple images anymore... > Awesome! Fixing bugs will be much more fun with e.g. OB loaded :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/On-the-way-to-1-3-Release-images-tp3729121p3729679.ht… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 9, 2011

[Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] forward engineering UML models into Smalltalk code

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > > On Aug 9, 2011, at 9:50 AM, btc(a)openInWorld.com wrote: > >> greetings all, >> >> What tools exist to assist with the forward engineering of UML diagrams into Smalltalk code? >> I have been searching for some time but my results are swamped by tools that: >> - reverse engineer Smalltalk code into UML diagrams >> - implement new techniques moving beyond UML and MOF >> >> I am implementing the [electric power system] Common Information Model of IEC 61970 in Smalltalk. This is defined as a UML Class Diagram (part of which I have attached) maintained using Enterprise Architect, which can export into XMI format. I hoped there might be a way to load the XMI directly into Smalltalk classes. Manually implementing the inheritance structure is straight forward, and I've developed a template for the aggregate relationships but an automated function would help to assure correctness, consistency and to track changes in the model. >> >> <Mail Attachment.jpeg > > > Hi btc > > In Moose on VW long time ago we implemented everything to load XMI, we had an emof reader that (I'm not sure anymore) was generating FAMIX classes. > May be you should ask on the Moose mailing-list. I could check on our old store but I should find somewhere how to connect to it. > > Stef > >

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] PharoCore 1.3: Transcript Ctrl+S broken

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 9, 2011, at 1:09 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > It would be better $l from clean (like on Unix). This shortcut already seems to work to clean the workspace. in the browser igor shows me that it put back the method text so indeed it could be consistent. Can you open a ticket? Stef > > Doru > > > On 9 Aug 2011, at 13:02, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> >> On Aug 9, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >> >>> On 8 August 2011 23:34, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> Indeed it works also in 14078 >>> >>> Ahh ok, thanks. I thought I was using the latest image, but it seems >>> that I am using 13291. Aside, how do I get the latest 1.3 image? >>> >>>> I would prefer to have Action-C (for clear) than S because I could have never guess it (since it makes me think about save). >>> >>> $c is likely already occupied for copying. >> >> indeed :) >> >> so s for sweep >> >>> >>> Lukas >>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2011, at 10:45 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>>> >>>>> Lukas, which version are you using? I am in Pharo1.3 >>>>> Latest update: #13293 >>>>> >>>>> and I cannot reproduce it >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 10:22 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>>> Thanks we will add that in the bug tracker later. >>>>> >>>>> The debugger got shaked because of my idea to change for a better implementation. Sorry about that. >>>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 8, 2011, at 9:56 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Another problem I just noticed right now is that pressing Ctrl+S in >>>>>> the Transcript opens a debugger: >>>>>> >>>>>> SubscriptOutOfBounds: 0 >>>>>> >>>>>> Ctrl+S used to clear the transcript, what I found quite useful in the past. >>>>>> >>>>>> Again, I am reporting this here to not forget, because the bug tracker >>>>>> is currently in read-only mode. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lukas >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Lukas Renggli >>>>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mariano >>>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Lukas Renggli >>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>> >> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "We are all great at making mistakes." > > > > > > > >

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Seaside on Pharo-Kernel

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Pavel could you create a page on the wiki about pharo-kernel? Because like that it does not lost in our email flow. tx On Aug 9, 2011, at 12:45 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote: > Hi, > > there's possible to load Seaside to the Pharo-Kernel. > > 1) Load PharoKernel-Gofer image from CI server > (https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Pharo-Kernel/job/Pharo%20Kernel%20Gofe…) > > 2) run the image with seaside.st script as an argument. That will > create about 4.1 MB image with basic Seaside packages and basic > examples. > > 3) run the image with run.st script (note that starting of the server > in the seaside.st script will hang, currently I have no idea why). > > 4) see if everything works at http://localhost:8080/examples/examplebrowser > > Cheers, > -- Pavel > <run.st><seaside.st>

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] On the way to 1.3 Release: images

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

adrian do you have the banner file formats so that we store them on svn? Stef On Aug 9, 2011, at 10:30 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > Thanks, Marcus! > > On Aug 9, 2011, at 08:41 , Marcus Denker wrote: > > [...] > >> Next steps: > > [...] > >> -> change the links on pharo-project to point to these images for >> http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/stable >> http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/stable-core > > Done. > >> -> change the link >> http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable(-core) >> to point to the one jenkins build of 1.4 > > I changed /unstable-core to point to https://ci.lille.inria.fr/pharo/view/Pharo%201.4/job/Pharo%201.4/lastSucces… > > I assume there is no /unstable build (yet)? > >> -> add a page or 1.3 on pharo-project.org > > I added a place holder with a link to the Wiki page http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/release-1-3 > > It would be nice if we could move the text over and revise it a bit. Any taker? > >> >> -> clean up a bit, no need to have pages for old .1 release. > > On pharo-project.org? > > > Once we have the one-click image, we also need to update the download banner and the links on http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download > > Cheers, > Adrian

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] On the way to 1.3 Release: images

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 9, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 8:41 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi, > > So now we have images on Gforge that will be the release: > > Core: > https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/28859/PharoCore-1.3-13298.zip > > Full: > https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/28860/Pharo-1.3-13298.zip > > > They are the ones build by Hudson, because magically the unix vm used > there reads cog images but saves interpreter images (didn't know that). > > > I have just tested in Mac OS and it works with both, Cog and not Cog vms :) > > So these images should even run on ancient VMs, as promised for 1.3. > > > Next steps: > > -> Build a one-click image. If nobody helps, I will do the same like 1.2: > take the one of 1.2 and just copy some random VMs in there. Worked > fine last time... > > > I think Igor can help us to decide which VMs to use. I would use the latest stable of Jenkis. > For the Windows VM, Torsten did some branding: > http://forum.world.st/ANN-Customized-Cog-Win32-for-Pharo-1-3-based-on-Cog-r… > > However, that's not yet integrated to jenkis. Even more, that VM is "old" and I think the bug fixed in the last days is quite important. So I would try first to update ConfigurationOfCog and gitorious in order to get a last VM. I think Igor said he was going to do that. yes but he found in bug in the Code Generator (eliot is aware of it) so he could not compile the vm once merging the last bug eliot fixed. > > > -> change the links on pharo-project to point to these images for > http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/stable > http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/stable-core > > -> change the link > http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable(-core) > to point to the one jenkins build of 1.4 > > -> add a page or 1.3 on pharo-project.org > > -> clean up a bit, no need to have pages for old .1 release. > > -> add actions done: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ActionsInPharoOneDotThree > > Maybe Laurent can help since he has access :) > > > > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] audio and pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Ok if you want that you should build a roadmap and start assembling pieces that exist and people will certainly join. Now we are musicians (except people from the Haute ecole musicale de Geneves)so this is difficult for us to work on that. Stef On Aug 9, 2011, at 3:23 AM, Brad Fuller wrote: > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 12:40, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> That's unfortunate. :-( Ok. thanks for the reply. >> >> yes but if nobody helps we cannot do everything. >> What are you looking for? > > (I created a msg, but it went to the bit bucket some how.... See if I > can remember what I wrote) > > There are various native packages - MIDI, FM, wav, piano roll music > player, etc. and external ones like Siren, mu0, but I'm looking for > interactivity. If Squeak/Pharo had tools to create audio content where > the composer could build interactive music, or the sound designer was > able to adjust audio parameters dynamically, it would allow content > designers - or even product designers - a way to build audio richness > into their products. > > Let's take a vehicle, like a car, as an example. Usually, not always, > but usually sound designers will record various samples of an car > engine at different engine RPM settings and at different engine LOADS. > At playback, these files will be crossfaded to build a coherent engine > sound. In a simplistic set up, the pitch of the first sample will be > shifted until it reaches the crossfade area of the next sample... and > on it goes up to the highest RPM. In this way, a full engine sound can > be created by just changing the pitch (the reason for the crossfade is > that a sample can only be pitch shifted so far and beyond that will > sound artificial.) > > To make it more realistic, another variable, LOAD, is added which > allows crossfading between two samples, at the same RPM, to allow > timbre to change -- simulating engine load > > Ok, too much information. But, you get the idea. Having a tool to > build this interactivity (it doesn't have to be as synthetic as the > example) and then using the resulting assets to be added to a product > (hmmm, like the EToys car demo) would allow interactivity.. more than > just selecting a sound to play, which is what we have now. > > For an example, see FMOD Designer > (http://www.fmod.org/index.php/products/designer) Free to > download/use. Something like this, with an accompanying engine, could > probably be easily built in Squeak or Pharo. > > b > >> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 00:51, Henrik Johansen >>> <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2011, at 3:00 49AM, Brad Fuller wrote: >>>> >>>>> Has pharo improved/added any audio related classes since the fork? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> brad >>>>> >>>> >>>> Improved, no. >>>> Kept what you'd find in Sound-* in Squeak up to date? Sort of. >>>> Though there were problems with loading it in 1.2/1.3 I'm not sure was resolved correctly, you can find the code in PharoSound repository on Squeaksource. >>>> >>>> As for improvements, you could check out http://forum.world.st/ANN-SqueakMovieMorph-Alpha-plays-any-video-file-playa… >>>> (make sure to use a VM including the plugin) >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Henry >>>> >>> >> >> >> >

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] PharoCore 1.3: Transcript Ctrl+S broken

by Tudor Girba

It would be better $l from clean (like on Unix). This shortcut already seems to work to clean the workspace. Doru On 9 Aug 2011, at 13:02, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > On Aug 9, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > >> On 8 August 2011 23:34, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> Indeed it works also in 14078 >> >> Ahh ok, thanks. I thought I was using the latest image, but it seems >> that I am using 13291. Aside, how do I get the latest 1.3 image? >> >>> I would prefer to have Action-C (for clear) than S because I could have never guess it (since it makes me think about save). >> >> $c is likely already occupied for copying. > > indeed :) > > so s for sweep > >> >> Lukas >> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Aug 8, 2011, at 10:45 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>> >>>> Lukas, which version are you using? I am in Pharo1.3 >>>> Latest update: #13293 >>>> >>>> and I cannot reproduce it >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 10:22 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> Thanks we will add that in the bug tracker later. >>>> >>>> The debugger got shaked because of my idea to change for a better implementation. Sorry about that. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2011, at 9:56 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >>>> >>>>> Another problem I just noticed right now is that pressing Ctrl+S in >>>>> the Transcript opens a debugger: >>>>> >>>>> SubscriptOutOfBounds: 0 >>>>> >>>>> Ctrl+S used to clear the transcript, what I found quite useful in the past. >>>>> >>>>> Again, I am reporting this here to not forget, because the bug tracker >>>>> is currently in read-only mode. >>>>> >>>>> Lukas >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Lukas Renggli >>>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mariano >>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Lukas Renggli >> www.lukas-renggli.ch >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "We are all great at making mistakes."

Aug. 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] PharoCore 1.3: Transcript Ctrl+S broken

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 9, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > On 8 August 2011 23:34, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Indeed it works also in 14078 > > Ahh ok, thanks. I thought I was using the latest image, but it seems > that I am using 13291. Aside, how do I get the latest 1.3 image? > >> I would prefer to have Action-C (for clear) than S because I could have never guess it (since it makes me think about save). > > $c is likely already occupied for copying. indeed :) so s for sweep > > Lukas > >> Stef >> >> On Aug 8, 2011, at 10:45 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >> >>> Lukas, which version are you using? I am in Pharo1.3 >>> Latest update: #13293 >>> >>> and I cannot reproduce it >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 10:22 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> Thanks we will add that in the bug tracker later. >>> >>> The debugger got shaked because of my idea to change for a better implementation. Sorry about that. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Aug 8, 2011, at 9:56 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >>> >>>> Another problem I just noticed right now is that pressing Ctrl+S in >>>> the Transcript opens a debugger: >>>> >>>> SubscriptOutOfBounds: 0 >>>> >>>> Ctrl+S used to clear the transcript, what I found quite useful in the past. >>>> >>>> Again, I am reporting this here to not forget, because the bug tracker >>>> is currently in read-only mode. >>>> >>>> Lukas >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Lukas Renggli >>>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mariano >>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>> >> >> >> > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch >

Aug. 9, 2011