August 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Some bugs

by Michael Roberts

I think for the debugger, we all live with the bugs. I mean, we (I) unfortunately made the situation worse with the introduction of the closures around 1.0/1.1 and it has never been fixed. It is hard to fix too, this stuff is not simple. I contacted a few people quietly maybe a year ago to see if we all lived with it, because a few times i posted about the debugger and there was not a lot of response. I wondered if no one *actually* programmed in pharo. but no, we become masters of interpreting the debugger highlight... What can we do- 1) I have contacted Eliot (again). Historically he said it was fixed (or better) in teleplace images but I need him to send us any patches. He has also been helpful and highlighted the areas that need work like the decompiler and how we could write some tests to protect against unintended change 2) I have checked a recent Squeak, and it is bust there too. 3) I am writing some test cases. So that we can regression test the debugger highlighting, and building an analyser class (@esug) to make it easier to dig into the debugger. 4) carefully check Squeak class versions for merging changes into Pharo. this is not easy. 5) We have to rebuild the debugger model based on the new compiler / decompiler machinery. (This is a long term Pharo goal) I am just chipping away at the analysis, and i will share my code when i have something on the tracker. Also would be great in a separate thread if someone could explain to me the simulation guard primitive. i.e you can not step over process creation, but you can halt after it e.g. cheers, Mike

Aug. 23, 2011

[Pharo-project] Pharo mentioned in InfoQ article

by Carlo

Good to see Pharo and some of the related projects (PetitParser, tODE) mentioned in an article written by Werner Schuster on InfoQ. Take a look at http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/08/smalltalk-in-browser I'd like to thank everyone for all their hard work in making Pharo a better platform. On a rather random side note I see a contracting job to make a video game using squeak/smalltalk on the elance website. Might be of interest to someone See http://www.elance.com/j/video-game-developer/25782784/ Description: We are looking to build a video game for our clothing company. We prefer to build this on Java, Squeak, Smalltalk or Python however we are open for any suggestions. Cheers Carlo

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Some bugs

by Adrian Lienhard

Yes, the issues Andrea reported are all from 1.2.2. That's the version we are currently using besides 1.1.2. Unfortunately, its not an option for us to move to new versions of Pharo too frequently. New Pharo versions can have unforeseen effects in production and hence can cause a lot of work for us and pain for our users (just an example is the semantic change of String>>asNumber). On the other hand, we are working 8 hours a day with Pharo and hence a good IDE is very important. If things like the debugger do not reliably work, this is not fun. Are other people just living with the issues? Are there any patches that could be backported? Cheers, Adrian On Aug 23, 2011, at 10:54 , Alexandre Bergel wrote: > These issues are for 1.2.2. Who is maintaining it by the way? > > Pharo 1.4 presents a significant number of improvements over Pharo 1.3. Whereas I found Pharo 1.3 almost unusable, I am quite happy with 1.4 > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 23 Aug 2011, at 08:54, Andrea BrÃ¼hlmann wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I reported some bugs on the issue tracker and hope you can help me with them! >> >> >> 4681: Accepting with the enter key does not work >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4681 >> >> 4682: Code completion makes strange cursor placements and too many spaces >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4682 >> >> 4683: Code completion breaks some search fields (errors during typing) >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4683 >> >> 4684: Missing ctrl+w (methodNamesContainingIt:) >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4684 >> >> 4685: Merge dialog: cannot resolve conflict with removed method >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4685 >> >> 4686: Method category change creates no new version >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4686 >> >> 4687: Errors during coding (MessageNotUnderstood: receiver of "morph" is nil) >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4687 >> >> 4688: Progress bar disappears on image save >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4688 >> >> 4689: MessageTally bug >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4689 >> >> 4690: Progress bar position >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4690 >> >> 4691: Bad line breaks in code until window is resized (because of bold text?) >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4691 >> >> 4692: Drop downs should select the default entry (topmost) instead of a middle one >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4692 >> >> 4693: Line breaks in tooltips are wrong >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4693 >> >> 4694: Debugger: stepping over an error can not open a new debugger until I hit cmd+. >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4694 >> >> 4695: Time asString prints nanos unrounded >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4695 >> >> >> -- >> Andrea BrÃ¼hlmann >> > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > >

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Concurrency-Oriented Programming in Pharo

by Adrian Lienhard

For me, SmalltalkImage current vmStatisticsReportString ...works best. If you run this twice, the second time it prints the diff compared to the previous run. So if you print the following three lines SmalltalkImage current vmStatisticsReportString. self runSomeCode. SmalltalkImage current vmStatisticsReportString you'll get the number and time of full and incremental GC cycles while running your code (of course there may have been other processes active in between which may affect the results). It's also a good idea to force a full GC before. Adrian On Aug 23, 2011, at 12:57 , Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Andrew P. Black <black(a)cs.pdx.edu> wrote: > >> >> On 17 Aug 2011, at 14:24 , Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >>> yes.. except one thing: since contexts are allocated on heap, it means >>> more work for GC, >>> then it explains that it degrading linearly. >>> >>> Andrew, can you play with GC parameters, like increase number of >>> allocations between incremental GCs etc? >> >> How do I do that? >> >> > > Check method category "vm parameters" in SmalltalkImage. > > >> Is there a gc monitor, that will show me how much time the gc is taking, or >> how many times the incremental gc is running? >> >> > Yes, open "System" -> "Vm statistics" > > >> Andrew >> >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Concurrency-Oriented Programming in Pharo

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Andrew P. Black <black(a)cs.pdx.edu> wrote: > > On 17 Aug 2011, at 14:24 , Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > yes.. except one thing: since contexts are allocated on heap, it means > > more work for GC, > > then it explains that it degrading linearly. > > > > Andrew, can you play with GC parameters, like increase number of > > allocations between incremental GCs etc? > > How do I do that? > > Check method category "vm parameters" in SmalltalkImage. > Is there a gc monitor, that will show me how much time the gc is taking, or > how many times the incremental gc is running? > > Yes, open "System" -> "Vm statistics" > Andrew > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] what are the comments of cull: cull: cull:cull: and friends?

by Andrew P. Black

On 17 Aug 2011, at 13:45 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > I prefer execute :) > because evaluate looks like you don't run fast and generate possibly assembly on the fly. > I stopped long time ago to use evaluate because people also think that Smalltalk is slow because of that evaluation.... I'm happy for Smalltalk to be fast! However, the method on block is called value: , not execute: So it makes sense to speak of evaluating a block, rather than executing it. Unless we change value: to execute: everywhere :-) Andrew

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Concurrency-Oriented Programming in Pharo

by Andrew P. Black

On 17 Aug 2011, at 14:24 , Igor Stasenko wrote: > yes.. except one thing: since contexts are allocated on heap, it means > more work for GC, > then it explains that it degrading linearly. > > Andrew, can you play with GC parameters, like increase number of > allocations between incremental GCs etc? How do I do that? Is there a gc monitor, that will show me how much time the gc is taking, or how many times the incremental gc is running? Andrew

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Some bugs

by Marcus Denker

On Aug 23, 2011, at 9:54 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > These issues are for 1.2.2. Who is maintaining it by the way? We maintain the current released image. But when people provide easy to integrate, clear and useful bug fixes for older versions, we integrate them. (this was done for 1.1.2, it has all fixes that where added for 1.2.2) Of course it would be possible (and I would prefer it), if a group of 1.2 users could take that over (e.g. commercial users that are actually using 1.2) The idea would not to actively develope it, but just make sure that all the fixes are added that make sense (bug fixes, mostly). *And* make that driven and coordingated by actual users of that version. This way we make sure that a release gets important fixes as long as it is used. We could have such a group for just every version released: It gets "handed off" to the people using the release. This group than of course, with time, gets smaller, and in the end fades away. The most important effect of this would be to not burn people maintaining old versions they don't use themselves... Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Some bugs

by Lukas Renggli

>> Now I think the subliminal message of this thread is that the Pharo >> community should focus on making the existing images really stable >> before hacking away on Pharo 1.4 and beyond ... :-) > > And we need more people actually looking at the bug tracker... I sometimes > feel a bit lonely... Yes, I feel guilty of not being able to contribute more fixes. You are doing the excellent job of integrating submitted patches instantaneous. The problem is that the unstable versions are pushed extremely hard, while the supposedly stable versions are still unstable. I don't see how this can possibly work? Subsequently, I hesitate to submit a patch for an old version because I know it won't be possible to merge it into newer versions. This is a vicious circle. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

Aug. 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Some bugs

by Alexandre Bergel

These issues are for 1.2.2. Who is maintaining it by the way? Pharo 1.4 presents a significant number of improvements over Pharo 1.3. Whereas I found Pharo 1.3 almost unusable, I am quite happy with 1.4 Cheers, Alexandre On 23 Aug 2011, at 08:54, Andrea BrÃ¼hlmann wrote: > Hello, > > I reported some bugs on the issue tracker and hope you can help me with them! > > > 4681: Accepting with the enter key does not work > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4681 > > 4682: Code completion makes strange cursor placements and too many spaces > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4682 > > 4683: Code completion breaks some search fields (errors during typing) > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4683 > > 4684: Missing ctrl+w (methodNamesContainingIt:) > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4684 > > 4685: Merge dialog: cannot resolve conflict with removed method > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4685 > > 4686: Method category change creates no new version > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4686 > > 4687: Errors during coding (MessageNotUnderstood: receiver of "morph" is nil) > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4687 > > 4688: Progress bar disappears on image save > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4688 > > 4689: MessageTally bug > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4689 > > 4690: Progress bar position > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4690 > > 4691: Bad line breaks in code until window is resized (because of bold text?) > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4691 > > 4692: Drop downs should select the default entry (topmost) instead of a middle one > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4692 > > 4693: Line breaks in tooltips are wrong > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4693 > > 4694: Debugger: stepping over an error can not open a new debugger until I hit cmd+. > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4694 > > 4695: Time asString prints nanos unrounded > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4695 > > > -- > Andrea BrÃ¼hlmann > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Aug. 23, 2011