August 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] Re: [squeak-dev] what's the standard way of finding out from Smalltalk if one is running headless?

by Levente Uzonyi

On Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > On 31 August 2011 18:28, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I thought to test things like Display extent & DisplayScreen >> actualScreenDepth but these either fall back to values in the pre-headless >> image or don't fail and answer the actual display depth, even though the VM >> is running headless (at least on Mac they do). > > > ahaa! you seem to be facing same problems as we had :) > > Nothing. I found no reliable way to detect that image are running > headless, there is no VM api for exposing that. And this is sad. > > The way how pharo images detecting it currently is to check a > command-line arguments passed to VM. > See > SmalltalkImage isHeadless > in pharo 1.3 - 1.4 images. > > it is ugly, but i think this is better than detecting via Display, > because its more direct. > > We should fix that. > either by adding a new primitive , or adding new system attribute.. > > But my personal preference is to let image control the headless mode, > i.e. instead of making VM decide whether image should be forced to run > headless or not, > an image should check a command line, > and then instruct VM to create a window or not. Running "headless" has nothing to do with having windows or not. We're running our images with vm-display-none, but we're still use windows, because we connect to our images via RFB. Since RFB also uses Display, therefore detecting headless mode with Display checks is not trivial. Levente > This IMO would be the best solution to the problem. VM should provide > access to features and/or facilities, and image should decide whether > use them or not. > > Even if VM decides to not allow UI, then it should report to an image > that given facility is not available, and play with it in nice manner, > but not like today when image has no idea what happens > and leaving it without any clues in what environment it running. > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >

Aug. 31, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] PLEASE HELP testing Pharo 1.3 One Click [WAS] Pharo 1.3 release

by Alexandre Bergel

Dale and I worked on the MetacelloBrowser. I believe the UI needs to be polished. Probably having something based on Glamour would cool to have. I worked on Versionner because I just need a commit button. Cheers, Alexandre On 31 Aug 2011, at 17:57, Igor Stasenko wrote: > is it just me, or there are more people who know nothing about it? > > i know how to do a parallel programs, > but i have no means to know what happens in parallel to my little universe unless i can read it from some well known source :) > > On 31 August 2011 23:46, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > :-) > I use Versionner for simple case and the MetacelloBrowser for more complicated stuff. > Check at the screenshot. You see, there is a commit button :-) It saves all the dependent packages, create a new version, ask you for the comment, and save the config. I rarely use the Monticello browser actually. > > <Screen Shot 2011-08-31 at 17.24.53.png> > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 31 Aug 2011, at 17:23, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> On 31 August 2011 23:19, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >>>> For development configuration is useless and just time sink. >>> >>> I strongly disagree. Metacello was sold to please users. Actually, I use it for me, the developper. I create a new version at each commit. It works wonderfully. >>> >> >> sorry, but if during development you need to do 2 commits of 20 >> packages , calculate how much time it would take for you to >> manuallly update a configuration for each update. >> it is time sink. >> >> if you do that once per day, its okay.. but for every commit . no. its >> is absurd. >> >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>>> But for release it has completely different purpose: it helps us to >>>> identify what exactly and what version of it will be put in final >>>> version. And gives a simple and concrete answer how to reproduce it, >>>> in case of need. >>>> Since we're are talking about release, i don't see how we could do >>>> that without configurations. >>>> >>>> Yes, sure it could be done manually to manifest all packages and their >>>> version(s) included into release, but it still means that >>>> someone has to do it one way or another. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 31 August 2011 23:03, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>>> Marcus >>>>> >>>>> We only do what is possible :) >>>>> >>>>> - for the configurations of let us take what exist. We cannot control everything. I do not have the time and knowledge for that. >>>>> Lukas decided that configurations are evil. Ok perfect now we fix them when we know what should be loaded. >>>>> >>>>> - Then for example to integrate the broken highlight I need the code first. I still do not know which slice to load in 1.3. >>>>> Two days ago I spent time on it loading the wrong slice. So I decided that I will not stress. >>>>> >>>>> So we will fix that either in 1.3 or in 1.4 as time allows it. >>>>> And more more important: no stress we are payed enough to stress and do stuff that hurts us. >>>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 31, 2011, at 8:22 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The image contains outdated versions of RB and OB that miss some >>>>>>> critical fixes. >>>>>> >>>>>> How can I know? >>>>>> >>>>>> It is is build using the latest MetaCello config... if the config needs to be updated, >>>>>> it needs to be updated. It does not happen by itself. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Also there some proposed fixes don't seem to be >>>>>>> included <http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?q=milestone%3D1.3> >>>>>>> yet? >>>>>>> >>>>>> No... I have not yet found the energy to do that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Marcus >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >> > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Aug. 31, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] opening a text in a window

by Igor Stasenko

On 31 August 2011 23:55, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> P.S. could someone explain me, why on Earth, a PluggableTextMorph has >> so much instance variables dedicated to styler: >> - nullStyler >> - shoutedStyler >> - styler >> - styled >> >> ??? >> isn't it a responsibility of an owner of morph to set a styler and >> based on what it sets (nil, null, shout or whatever else value) >> consider text >> as styled or not? >> Why on Earth, a PluggableTextMorph needs to care about it more than >> just having a 'styler' ivar? > > See http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4609 > Yeah.. sorry for rant. I seen this topic, but never read inside of it. It was outside of my current interests, and i just saving time on reading stuff by ignoring it. Because it is really to much to read every day. > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Aug. 31, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] opening a text in a window

by Igor Stasenko

On 31 August 2011 23:45, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > In latest 1.4 > > wk := Workspace new. > wk contents: 'lkhkhkjhkjh'. > wk Â toggleStylingActive. > wk open > > so I imagine easily that we can define a better creation method but this one is working well. > i tried in 1.3 image which i hastily found in one of my folders on my windows machine.i have no idea how dusty it is :) > Stef > > > On Aug 31, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> hi! >> >> Is there a way to open a text in a window in Pharo? >> Doing: Workspace Â openContents: 'hello world' >> shows >> <Screen Shot 2011-08-31 at 13.03.06.png> >> >> Is there a way to remove the syntax highlighting? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel Â http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Aug. 31, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] PLEASE HELP testing Pharo 1.3 One Click [WAS] Pharo 1.3 release

by Igor Stasenko

is it just me, or there are more people who know nothing about it? i know how to do a parallel programs, but i have no means to know what happens in parallel to my little universe unless i can read it from some well known source :) On 31 August 2011 23:46, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > :-) > I use Versionner for simple case and the MetacelloBrowser for more > complicated stuff. > Check at the screenshot. You see, there is a commit button :-) It saves all > the dependent packages, create a new version, ask you for the comment, and > save the config. I rarely use the Monticello browser actually. > > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 31 Aug 2011, at 17:23, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > On 31 August 2011 23:19, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > For development configuration is useless and just time sink. > > > I strongly disagree. Metacello was sold to please users. Actually, I use it > for me, the developper. I create a new version at each commit. It works > wonderfully. > > > > sorry, but if during development you need to do 2 commits of 20 > packages , calculate how much time it would take for you to > manuallly update a configuration for each update. > it is time sink. > > if you do that once per day, its okay.. but for every commit . no. its > is absurd. > > Alexandre > > > > But for release it has completely different purpose: it helps us to > > identify what exactly and what version of it will be put in final > > version. And gives a simple and concrete answer how to reproduce it, > > in case of need. > > Since we're are talking about release, i don't see how we could do > > that without configurations. > > > Yes, sure it could be done manually to manifest all packages and their > > version(s) included into release, but it still means that > > someone has to do it one way or another. > > > > On 31 August 2011 23:03, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > > Marcus > > > We only do what is possible :) > > > - for the configurations of let us take what exist. We cannot > control everything. I do not have the time and knowledge for that. > > Lukas decided that configurations are evil. Ok perfect now we fix > them when we know what should be loaded. > > > - Then for example to integrate the broken highlight I need the code > first. I still do not know which slice to load in 1.3. > > Two days ago I spent time on it loading the wrong slice. So I > decided that I will not stress. > > > So we will fix that either in 1.3 or in 1.4 as time allows it. > > And more more important: no stress we are payed enough to stress and do > stuff that hurts us. > > > Stef > > > On Aug 31, 2011, at 8:22 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > > > The image contains outdated versions of RB and OB that miss some > > critical fixes. > > > How can I know? > > > It is is build using the latest MetaCello config... if the config needs to > be updated, > > it needs to be updated. It does not happen by itself. > > > Also there some proposed fixes don't seem to be > > included <http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?q=milestone%3D1.3> > > yet? > > > No... I have not yet found the energy to do that. > > > Marcus > > > -- > > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Aug. 31, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] opening a text in a window

by Lukas Renggli

> P.S. could someone explain me, why on Earth, a PluggableTextMorph has > so much instance variables dedicated to styler: > - nullStyler > - shoutedStyler > - styler > - styled > > ??? > isn't it a responsibility of an owner of morph to set a styler and > based on what it sets (nil, null, shout or whatever else value) > consider text > as styled or not? > Why on Earth, a PluggableTextMorph needs to care about it more than > just having a 'styler' ivar? See http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4609 -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

Aug. 31, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] opening a text in a window

by Alexandre Bergel

I've just found something funny: Workspace new isStylingActive => '<yes> syntax highlighting' ah ah ah Should't we expect true or false? http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4739 I am working right now on a new test: WorkspaceTest Cheers, Alexandre On 31 Aug 2011, at 17:45, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > In latest 1.4 > > wk := Workspace new. > wk contents: 'lkhkhkjhkjh'. > wk toggleStylingActive. > wk open > > so I imagine easily that we can define a better creation method but this one is working well. > > Stef > > > On Aug 31, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> hi! >> >> Is there a way to open a text in a window in Pharo? >> Doing: Workspace openContents: 'hello world' >> shows >> <Screen Shot 2011-08-31 at 13.03.06.png> >> >> Is there a way to remove the syntax highlighting? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> > > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Aug. 31, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] PLEASE HELP testing Pharo 1.3 One Click [WAS] Pharo 1.3 release

by Clara Allende

(+1) looks really cool :) Is this already integrated in 1.4? I'm so used to use Monticello browser, but I'd like to give VersionnerBrowser a try :D On 31 August 2011 17:46, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > :-) > I use Versionner for simple case and the MetacelloBrowser for more > complicated stuff. > Check at the screenshot. You see, there is a commit button :-) It saves all > the dependent packages, create a new version, ask you for the comment, and > save the config. I rarely use the Monticello browser actually. > > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 31 Aug 2011, at 17:23, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > On 31 August 2011 23:19, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > For development configuration is useless and just time sink. > > > I strongly disagree. Metacello was sold to please users. Actually, I use it > for me, the developper. I create a new version at each commit. It works > wonderfully. > > > > sorry, but if during development you need to do 2 commits of 20 > packages , calculate how much time it would take for you to > manuallly update a configuration for each update. > it is time sink. > > if you do that once per day, its okay.. but for every commit . no. its > is absurd. > > Alexandre > > > > But for release it has completely different purpose: it helps us to > > identify what exactly and what version of it will be put in final > > version. And gives a simple and concrete answer how to reproduce it, > > in case of need. > > Since we're are talking about release, i don't see how we could do > > that without configurations. > > > Yes, sure it could be done manually to manifest all packages and their > > version(s) included into release, but it still means that > > someone has to do it one way or another. > > > > On 31 August 2011 23:03, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > > Marcus > > > We only do what is possible :) > > > - for the configurations of let us take what exist. We cannot > control everything. I do not have the time and knowledge for that. > > Lukas decided that configurations are evil. Ok perfect now we fix > them when we know what should be loaded. > > > - Then for example to integrate the broken highlight I need the code > first. I still do not know which slice to load in 1.3. > > Two days ago I spent time on it loading the wrong slice. So I > decided that I will not stress. > > > So we will fix that either in 1.3 or in 1.4 as time allows it. > > And more more important: no stress we are payed enough to stress and do > stuff that hurts us. > > > Stef > > > On Aug 31, 2011, at 8:22 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > > > The image contains outdated versions of RB and OB that miss some > > critical fixes. > > > How can I know? > > > It is is build using the latest MetaCello config... if the config needs to > be updated, > > it needs to be updated. It does not happen by itself. > > > Also there some proposed fixes don't seem to be > > included <http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?q=milestone%3D1.3> > > yet? > > > No... I have not yet found the energy to do that. > > > Marcus > > > -- > > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > >

Aug. 31, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.3 release

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> > > I really don't think it's related to sockets not being released and/or never signalled, in that case you'd not see 100% CPU utilization... > > What I DO know though, is running : > > - TraitTest > - ZnClientTest > > Throws the system into a jiffy. > > My guess would be TraitTest doing something iffy without cleaning up properly. > Why that iffyness would lead the VM to go into a hot loop when ZnClientTest does it's thing, I have no idea. Thanks henrik. At least we are making progress. Strange strange Stef

Aug. 31, 2011

[Pharo-project] RB API

by Lukas Renggli

On Wednesday, 31 August 2011, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> I think it is a very bad idea to integrate the refactoring engine into >> the system, but I guess we don't have to discuss that again. > > This is simple. If nobody maintains the Configuration then it means that this is impossible to load it automatically > We do not want a script we want a metacello spec for obvious reason. > And it means that we are always confused and we do not know what is the latest version and on which repository it > is. I never said Metacello configs are evil. A configuration management is definitely needed. It is just too complex for me, given that I don't gain anything myself. > Then we do not want it to take 20 min to load because in that case it means that we will never be able > to load it to integrate and work on core. Because when we work on core and integrate and fix things we generate images sometimes > every 5 minutes so a jenkins server does not help at all. On my dead slow single-core server from the year 2000 it takes 5 minutes to load RB, OB and run all test and lint rules (if no other builds run at the same time). I assume that it is possible to load the necessary packages on a modern machine in under 1 min right after each commit. Also note that with builder.sh one can do incremental builds, that is to update the image from the previous build. I am not currently using this trick anywhere, but it makes builds even on my slow machines almost instantanious. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

Aug. 31, 2011