August 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.3 release

by Pat Maddox

1.2 is for download on the site, 1.3 is listed on the site with no links, and 1.4 is discussed on the mailing list. I have absolutely no idea what is going on with Pharo, which version is being actively developed and maintained, which one to use, etc. It is very frustrating. So what's the deal with the Pharo "roadmap" ? Pat On Aug 29, 2011, at 10:53 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > Hi, > > maybe I haven't read correctly the mailing-list but I still don't know if Pharo 1.3 is released or not, cannot find any official announcement, release date .... > > The website is misleading, I can help on this, but need to be sure. > > I've also prepared a french announcement but needs to be up to date before. > > Cheers, > > Laurent Laffont

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Omnibrowser in 1.4

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 30, 2011, at 1:58 AM, Douglas Brebner wrote: > On 29/08/2011 21:41, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> So may be you do not like Ring and this is ok. >> Now I want an abstraction so that we can build a remote browser by plugging simply rTalk + nautilus + ring. >> With the current state of the system this was simply impossible. >> >> I want to be able to browse senders in the past and compare them with the current version. Because we use >> prehistorical tools even if we could have something like torch to help us. >> >> I cannot see anymore SystemChangeNotifier (even if this was far better than without) >> PackageInfo, PackageOrganizer with lazy identification of packages >> so that when you do an analysis you have to ask sometimes twice to packageOrganiser and packageInfo. Ask cyrille the time he spent there. >> >> I want one good browser, one code model (to be used by all the tools), one system notifier and a good one. >> One AST. >> > > If I may make a metaphor, it sounds like rebuilding a house from the foundations on up while you're living in it. Things are bound to get unpleasant while it's happening, but it's still worth it in the end. :) :) Doing that for real here with three kids :) Stef >

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Omnibrowser in 1.4

by Marcus Denker

On Aug 29, 2011, at 10:56 PM, Jorge Ressia wrote: > Hi guys, > > I am completely for inventing something new. > > However, I do not think this is the right model for doing so. > In a sense we are getting static, we put some tools in the image and > expect people to use them. > I think that this is going to be contra productive. > I believe that a much better model would be a dynamic one in which > people can load the tools that make them more productive. > Moreover, this model will force us, developers, to better target our > tools. Make clear which are their objectives, showing their benefits, > improve their design for understandability and extension and thus > getting feedback and interested people. At the end better tools will > emerge. > In a word, better products, with a "natural selection" process. > So we than just make "Pharo" an unusable download and expect the users to evaluate and pick their favorite browser from 3 to-be-loaded ones? Do you think this is realistic? -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Deprecation policy

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

at least we should get this list studied and we decide. we shoudl open a bug entry. On Aug 30, 2011, at 1:34 AM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > Are pre-1.3 deprecated methods purposely put into protocol *deprecated13? > > For example: > String>>asDefaultDecodedString on: 2/13/2010 in: 1.1 > PluggableTextMorph>>setTextColor: on: 8/17/2010 in: 1.2 > SequencableCollection>>sortBy: on: 9/4/2010 in: 1.2 > SystemDictionary>>hasSpecialSelector:ifTrueSetByte: on: 3/20/2010 in: 1.1 > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Deprecation-policy-tp3777647p3777660.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Deprecation policy

by Marcus Denker

On Aug 30, 2011, at 1:35 AM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > Are pre-1.3 deprecated methods purposely put into protocol *deprecated13? > > For example: > String>>asDefaultDecodedString on: 2/13/2010 in: 1.1 > PluggableTextMorph>>setTextColor: on: 8/17/2010 in: 1.2 > SequencableCollection>>sortBy: on: 9/4/2010 in: 1.2 > SystemDictionary>>hasSpecialSelector:ifTrueSetByte: on: 3/20/2010 in: 1.1 Sometimes we move methods to keep them longer, somtimes methods get "lost" from the package because of accidental re-categoration, and than moved to the current deprecated package. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.3 release

by Damien Cassou

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 8:31 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > So maybe we should just release with the same VMs as 1.2, just to get it done? What is the problem with the 1.2 VM that doesn't make it a good candidate for 1.3 ? -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Lambdas are relegated to relative obscurity until Java makes them popular by not having them." James Iry

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Deprecation policy

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 30, 2011, at 1:43 AM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > Also the date formats are inconsistent e.g. '8/29/2011' vs. '29 August, > 2011'. Does it matter? not really right now. but ok to live with it. Now it would be good to have a refactoring to deprecate a method (but I had no time and know how to add one) > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Deprecation-policy-tp3777647p3777671.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Deprecation policy

by Marcus Denker

On Aug 30, 2011, at 1:44 AM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > Also the date formats are inconsistent e.g. '8/29/2011' vs. '29 August, > 2011'. Does it matter? No > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Deprecation-policy-tp3777647p3777671.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Deprecation policy

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 30, 2011, at 1:23 AM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > I want to add a comment to #deprecated:on:in: > > This is my understanding (it is implemented inconsistently in 1.4 update > #14112): > > For methods: > 1. Have the method call deprecated:on:in: as its first step > - the versionString should be e.g. 'Pharo1.4' (although I found #Pharo1.4, > see the problem; and '1.4', those were mine, hee hee). Is it redundant to > say 'PharoXxx'? > 2. Move the method to protocol e.g. deprecated14 for Pharo 1.4 > this protocol could be an extension of the deprecatedXX package but not necessarily. because sometimes we want to keep the method longer > For classes: > 1. Move to Category e.g. 'Deprecated14' for Pharo 1.4 > 2? Should #deprecated:on:in: be called from the methods? It's inconsistent > in the image and seems unnecessary, except maybe for some class-side > methods. Yes because this is a lot of work and not convincing :) > > Is all this correct? > > Thanks. > Sean > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Deprecation-policy-tp3777647p3777647.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Aug. 30, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.3 release

by Marcus Denker

The state is the same as 3 week ago, (and I fear the same as in 3 weeks): -> image is finished, there are some (5 or so bugreport) that will be integrated as they get fixed, but this does not hold up the release -> What is missing are VMs and the one-click. I do not know which VMs to take. This has not changed in 3 weeks. So maybe we should just release with the same VMs as 1.2, just to get it done? Marcus On Aug 30, 2011, at 7:53 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > Hi, > > maybe I haven't read correctly the mailing-list but I still don't know if Pharo 1.3 is released or not, cannot find any official announcement, release date .... > > The website is misleading, I can help on this, but need to be sure. > > I've also prepared a french announcement but needs to be up to date before. > > Cheers, > > Laurent Laffont -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Aug. 30, 2011