June 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] OSProcess on 1.2

by Sean P. DeNigris

David T. Lewis wrote: > > But I think you said you are using a 4.2.5 VM, > For the Cocoa VM (5.7.4.1), TestRunner hangs again. One hanging test was UnixProcessTestCase>>testClassForkHeadlessSqueakAndDo on "[p isRunning] whileTrue: [(Delay forMilliseconds: 100) wait]." These were the values for that VM: #('CommandShell versionString ==> 4.4.15' 'OSProcess versionString ==> 4.4.2' 'UnixOSProcessPlugin 6 February 2011 (e)' 'OSPP versionString ==> 4.4.3' 'nil' 'AIO plugin versionString ==> nil' 'nil' 'XDCP versionString ==> nil') -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/OSProcess-on-1-2-tp3569458p3573852.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 4, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Toward MVP: SimpleGridExample vs. ClassListExample, etc.

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, Thanks for the homework assignments :) I have not specifically looked at simple grid in 1.3, but I will do so - gotta go for a run first. My MVP code is not yet available, but I intend to release it once it is remotely worth having. I was pleasantly surprised to find more than I thought I had working. Maybe I should soon put a "first draft" where people can see it. The design (if that word applies<g>) is a compromise between Dolphin's approach to GUIs where it makes sense to follow them, realizing that the Dolphin view composer isn't here, some "going along with the flow" where Polymorph makes things too easy to ignore, and finally some Seaside influence. Dolphin uses a GUI to assemble views. I am planning to do that with code, but ultimately that should not be forced. It will take some time to balance all of that. >> did you check HPI library or void nullpointer widgets? I am not familiar with them, but I will look. I suspect I am finding smoke screens on HPI, but the null pointer widgets look like I found what you have in mind. It looks like you are "thinking big," which is great. I am not a big believer that native widgets equate to speed, but, there are times when some native code goes a LONG way in that direction. I would like to see us able to use one native window per tool shell, if not be able to go completely native. I think it would be painful, but ultimately good for us. Short term, I am not so much thinking of replacing the GUI (though my stuff would hopefully run on top of any widgets - with some work) as I am with reducing the redundant work that goes in to a GUI, and moving us toward MVP. The latter is for two reasons: (1) it is a nice framework; (2) I have a lot of old code that I would like to see have a home on Linux. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 12:23 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Toward MVP: SimpleGridExample vs. ClassListExample, etc. On Jun 4, 2011, at 6:08 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > I have a couple of GUIs to create, and took another look at my (very) slowly evolving MVP package. A small update appears below, but the question of the day is one of performance of MorphTreeMorph in its various incarnations. > > ClassListExample is very impressive and reasonably quick. SimpleGridExample is very nice, but quite slow. Profiling its opening reveals that it spends a lot of time making morphs, but that's not super surprising. It's the total time that is of concern. Any takers on why? did you check on 1.3 because igor and ben spent some time optimizing it a bit. > I ask, because I am trying to create basic presenter classes for lists, trees, (more or less working), text (will be easy - I *think*), and another big item is multi-column lists. My objective is to be able to easily construct things that (unless told to do otherwise) automatically deal with the selected index, updates, etc. None of this stuff is terribly difficult to do when following the Polymorph examples, PharoCasts, etc., but hopefully we can have MVP and stop repeating ourselves at the same time. I'm interested in that MVP framework. Do you have some code somewhere? With igor we discussed about killing pluggable.... but for now one step at the time. > The next thing I am missing is a grid. Any strong thoughts on examples to follow/reuse, or things that should NOT be used for any reason? did you check HPI library or void nullpointer widgets? I would love to have a gorup of people pushing that. > > Bill > > > > >

June 4, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Toward MVP: SimpleGridExample vs. ClassListExample, etc.

by Alain Plantec

yes, it is slow. the idea would be to build the list in background. you can try the lazy version also. LazyMorphTreeMorph. a row is built only when it is visible. Cheers Alain Le 04/06/2011 18:08, Schwab,Wilhelm K a Ã©crit : > I have a couple of GUIs to create, and took another look at my (very) slowly evolving MVP package. A small update appears below, but the question of the day is one of performance of MorphTreeMorph in its various incarnations. > > ClassListExample is very impressive and reasonably quick. SimpleGridExample is very nice, but quite slow. Profiling its opening reveals that it spends a lot of time making morphs, but that's not super surprising. It's the total time that is of concern. Any takers on why? > > I ask, because I am trying to create basic presenter classes for lists, trees, (more or less working), text (will be easy - I *think*), and another big item is multi-column lists. My objective is to be able to easily construct things that (unless told to do otherwise) automatically deal with the selected index, updates, etc. None of this stuff is terribly difficult to do when following the Polymorph examples, PharoCasts, etc., but hopefully we can have MVP and stop repeating ourselves at the same time. > > The next thing I am missing is a grid. Any strong thoughts on examples to follow/reuse, or things that should NOT be used for any reason? > > Bill > > > > >

June 4, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] OSProcess on 1.2

by David T. Lewis

On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 08:00:32AM -0700, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > David T. Lewis wrote: > > > > Some of the VMs for OS X were accidentally built with an out of > > date OSProcessPlugin (OSPP). It looks like you have one of them. > > You have version 4.2.4 of OSPP which was from April 2007, and > > does not contain many necessary updates and fixes. > > > > Aha! That VM came directly from http://www.squeakvm.org/mac/. Where do I get > the right one? > I am not a Mac user, so I don't know if I am giving you the right information here. But I think you said you are using a 4.2.5 VM, which according to http://squeakvm.org/mac/ would be for older Mac systems "mostly for EToys which has to run on really old macintosh computers that you find the USA school system". If I remember correctly, there are no plans for further updates to that VM (Esteban could say better than me of course). If it is important for you to have OSProcess on the older Mac systems, I can raise the question on the vm-dev list. Dave

June 4, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] usability of Pharo and Squeak

by laurent laffont

On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Andreas Wacknitz <a.wacknitz(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > Am 31.05.2011 um 09:38 schrieb laurent laffont: > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Andreas Wacknitz <A.Wacknitz(a)gmx.de>wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I have convinced a friend to take a closer look at Pharo 1.2.1 and Dolphin >> Smalltalk. He is an experienced Java developer. >> After some time he started to complain about Pharo. I was discussing with >> him and now think that he has some valid points. >> >> His biggest complaint is: "Why does Pharo always show windows at sizes and >> positions I don't want?" >> I answered him: You could set the standard window size in the class >> RealEstateAgent and furthermore you can create or change >>initialExtent >> methods in every class that is involved. >> But his answer was: Why should I do that? It's the responsibility of an >> IDE. I don't want to program elementary things of my IDE. Why is there no >> mechanism that let a user set the sizes and positions of windows? Netbeans >> and Eclipse are doing that nicely. Why isn't it possible in Pharo? >> After that discussion I now question my own way of using Pharo and Squeak. >> I have created some changesets that I used to file in when using >> a fresh image. But that seems stupid now... >> >> His second complaint was that he doesn't like the cluttered windows. While >> programming he had a lot of open windows and told me that he lost overview. >> > > > This is why I've started TilingWindowManager. Could you friend give some > feedback ? > > Laurent. > > > Laurent, > > I looked at TWM and it looked promising but I think it's only a complement > to what I have in mind: > A user should be able to save window sizes and positions as defaults. > The TWM makes my life easier but still can't guess what I really want. > > Don't hesitate to contribute code :) Laurent. > Regards > Andreas > > >

June 4, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] usability of Pharo and Squeak

by Andreas Wacknitz

Am 31.05.2011 um 09:38 schrieb laurent laffont: > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Andreas Wacknitz <A.Wacknitz(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Hi all, > > I have convinced a friend to take a closer look at Pharo 1.2.1 and Dolphin Smalltalk. He is an experienced Java developer. > After some time he started to complain about Pharo. I was discussing with him and now think that he has some valid points. > > His biggest complaint is: "Why does Pharo always show windows at sizes and positions I don't want?" > I answered him: You could set the standard window size in the class RealEstateAgent and furthermore you can create or change >>initialExtent methods in every class that is involved. > But his answer was: Why should I do that? It's the responsibility of an IDE. I don't want to program elementary things of my IDE. Why is there no mechanism that let a user set the sizes and positions of windows? Netbeans and Eclipse are doing that nicely. Why isn't it possible in Pharo? > After that discussion I now question my own way of using Pharo and Squeak. I have created some changesets that I used to file in when using > a fresh image. But that seems stupid now... > > His second complaint was that he doesn't like the cluttered windows. While programming he had a lot of open windows and told me that he lost overview. > > > This is why I've started TilingWindowManager. Could you friend give some feedback ? > > Laurent. Laurent, I looked at TWM and it looked promising but I think it's only a complement to what I have in mind: A user should be able to save window sizes and positions as defaults. The TWM makes my life easier but still can't guess what I really want. Regards Andreas

June 4, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Toward MVP: SimpleGridExample vs. ClassListExample, etc.

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jun 4, 2011, at 6:08 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > I have a couple of GUIs to create, and took another look at my (very) slowly evolving MVP package. A small update appears below, but the question of the day is one of performance of MorphTreeMorph in its various incarnations. > > ClassListExample is very impressive and reasonably quick. SimpleGridExample is very nice, but quite slow. Profiling its opening reveals that it spends a lot of time making morphs, but that's not super surprising. It's the total time that is of concern. Any takers on why? did you check on 1.3 because igor and ben spent some time optimizing it a bit. > I ask, because I am trying to create basic presenter classes for lists, trees, (more or less working), text (will be easy - I *think*), and another big item is multi-column lists. My objective is to be able to easily construct things that (unless told to do otherwise) automatically deal with the selected index, updates, etc. None of this stuff is terribly difficult to do when following the Polymorph examples, PharoCasts, etc., but hopefully we can have MVP and stop repeating ourselves at the same time. I'm interested in that MVP framework. Do you have some code somewhere? With igor we discussed about killing pluggable.... but for now one step at the time. > The next thing I am missing is a grid. Any strong thoughts on examples to follow/reuse, or things that should NOT be used for any reason? did you check HPI library or void nullpointer widgets? I would love to have a gorup of people pushing that. > > Bill > > > > >

June 4, 2011

[Pharo-project] Toward MVP: SimpleGridExample vs. ClassListExample, etc.

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

I have a couple of GUIs to create, and took another look at my (very) slowly evolving MVP package. A small update appears below, but the question of the day is one of performance of MorphTreeMorph in its various incarnations. ClassListExample is very impressive and reasonably quick. SimpleGridExample is very nice, but quite slow. Profiling its opening reveals that it spends a lot of time making morphs, but that's not super surprising. It's the total time that is of concern. Any takers on why? I ask, because I am trying to create basic presenter classes for lists, trees, (more or less working), text (will be easy - I *think*), and another big item is multi-column lists. My objective is to be able to easily construct things that (unless told to do otherwise) automatically deal with the selected index, updates, etc. None of this stuff is terribly difficult to do when following the Polymorph examples, PharoCasts, etc., but hopefully we can have MVP and stop repeating ourselves at the same time. The next thing I am missing is a grid. Any strong thoughts on examples to follow/reuse, or things that should NOT be used for any reason? Bill

June 4, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] OSProcess on 1.2

by Sean P. DeNigris

David T. Lewis wrote: > > Some of the VMs for OS X were accidentally built with an out of > date OSProcessPlugin (OSPP). It looks like you have one of them. > You have version 4.2.4 of OSPP which was from April 2007, and > does not contain many necessary updates and fixes. > Aha! That VM came directly from http://www.squeakvm.org/mac/. Where do I get the right one? Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/OSProcess-on-1-2-tp3569458p3573516.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 4, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] OSProcess on 1.2

by David T. Lewis

On Fri, Jun 03, 2011 at 08:42:49PM -0700, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > David T. Lewis wrote: > > > > If you have a chance, could you please run the following and post > > your results from the transcript? > > > > Sure... > > #('CommandShell versionString ==> 4.4.15' > 'OSProcess versionString ==> 4.4.2' > 'UnixOSProcessPlugin 23 December 2007 (e)' > 'OSPP versionString ==> 4.2.4' > 'nil' > 'AIO plugin versionString ==> nil' > 'nil' > 'XDCP versionString ==> nil') Thanks Sean, Some of the VMs for OS X were accidentally built with an out of date OSProcessPlugin (OSPP). It looks like you have one of them. You have version 4.2.4 of OSPP which was from April 2007, and does not contain many necessary updates and fixes. Dave

June 4, 2011