June 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] FFI versus Alien versus NativeBoost (was FFI versus Aloen)

by Igor Stasenko

On 10 June 2011 06:50, Javier PimÃ¡s <elpochodelagente(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I think that Alien vs. FFI has more to do with historic reasons than > anything else. If I'm right, the original FFI implementation had some > problems, like not being reentrant, and therefore not supporting callbacks > among other things (someone correct me if wrong). Alien came to solve some > of these limitations, but hen FFI was improved and made reentrant, and now > both implementations do more or less the same. NativeBoost on the other hand > is more like a model of machine instructions, so that you can assemble them. > One particular use is to implement the C calling convention, getting a 100% > smalltalk FFI. > > Eliot and Igor will probably be able enlighten us better. Yes, you are right. NativeBoost actually more than just FFI , it is an API for generating native code at run time. FFI implementation is just one of a many use cases of it :) In contrast to C implementation, which comes as precompiled binary library, a NativeBoost code sits in image. So, if there are bug or missing feature you can fix it right there, without need to recompile VM. IMO, this is most important advantage comparing to statically compiled C code. Concerning Alien and FFI: FFI is faster, but Alien is more flexible. So.. it is hard to say, which one i would recommend to use (apart from NativeBoost ;) I think that both are quite ok. > Regards, > Â Â Â Â Â Â Javier. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

June 10, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] WindowOrganiser (was: Tab widget improvements)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

excellent!!! We need to use the same in Nautilus and Glamour Stef On Jun 10, 2011, at 8:52 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > Hi Gary, > > > I've played a little and changed: > > DockingBarMorph subclass: #WindowOrganiser > uses: TEasilyThemed > instanceVariableNames: 'tabGroup' > classVariableNames: '' > poolDictionaries: '' > category: 'Guru' > > (sorry, I feel stupid, I don't know how to make a changeset, need to look at this :) > > So I can open a sort of docking panel: (see attached screenshot) > > > WindowOrganiser new > openInWorld; > height:200; > adhereToBottom. > > > That means we can have docking panels like the IDEs Java students use :) > > Moreover TWM tile windows only in clear area, so all this play nicely together. > > I wonder what's the best way to package all this. In Polymorph ? > > > Laurent Laffont - @lolgzs > > Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ > Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ > Developer group: http://cara74.seasidehosting.st > > > > On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > Even better when working more properly (attached) > > Regards, Gary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: laurent laffont > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 2:12 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Tab widget improvements > > > On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > Something to get you started... ;-0 > > > aaaaargggggggg THAT'S SO DAMN COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Laurent > > > > > WindowOrganiser new open > > Optionally, via halo, turn on "Accept drops" for the window, else use the window menu to "Grab window...". > > Plenty of evilness left to sort out with it, naturally. > Have fun! > > Regards, Gary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary Chambers > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 10:03 AM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Tab widget improvements > > Hi Laurent. > > Sounds like a cool idea and is possible. You'd likely need to modify SystemWindow somewhat to deal with being within a tab (remove grips, forward label changes to the tab, handle activation (TopWindow stuff might be tricky) etc.). You'd also want an option (perhaps a button in the tab label) to break the window out again. > > For some of this you could get some ideas from StandardWindow with respect to fullscreen, #noteNewOwner: > > Regards, Gary > ----- Original Message ----- > From: laurent laffont > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 5:20 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Tab widget improvements > > Hi Gary, > > I wanted to try what follows while coding TWM, maybe with your magic super powers its easy :) > > Create a SystemWindow subclass: #TabbedWindow (or better name). > > In this window's menu there's the list of all other SystemWindows. When you click on it, the window goes as tab. > > So I can group several windows in a tabbed container. Like the group windows feature of KDE. See http://blip.tv/sebastian-kgler/window-managing-features-in-kde-plasma-4-4-3… at 1'50. > > Is it hard ? Idea how to do this ? > > Laurent. > > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > For another example, just a quickly hacked together (i.e. quick and dirty) multi workspace thing attached. > > MultiWorkspaceWindow new open > > Use the window menu to add workspaces, otherwise works like a workspace for the selected tab. > > Regards, Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Chambers" <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> > > To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 3:26 PM > > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Tab widget improvements > > > Lol > > Regards, Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> > To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 3:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Tab widget improvements > > > You know my soft spot :) > > Doru > > > On 8 Jun 2011, at 16:04, Gary Chambers wrote: > > I expect Doru will want it in 1.3 for Moose ;-) > > Regards, Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcus Denker" <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 3:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Tab widget improvements > > > > On Jun 8, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Gary Chambers wrote: > > Attached, some improvements to the TabGroupMorph etc. having had feedback from Doru. > > Provides scrolling buttons when insufficient room for all tabs and displays only tabs for which there is room! (excepting at least one). > > Can optionally set wrapScrolling on the TabSelectorMorph to allow wraparound scrolling via the buttons. > > > Do we put that in 1.3 or 1.4? > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?thanks=4376 > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Live like you mean it." > > > > > > > <windoworganizer.png>

June 10, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Have you played with Ameba?

by Henrik Sperre Johansen

On 09.06.2011 17:23, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 9 June 2011 17:05, HwaJong Oh<daliot.oh(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hmm... >> >> I saw what you meant. Rectangle flicking behind the ovals! >> I guess there some bug drawing oval. neither border width = 0 nor alpha = >> 1.0 made any change. >> > No. The bug is in how morphic handling& redraws damaged areas. > Or perhaps you are not reporting a morph's position changes correctly.. > i'm not sure. > Not a bug. When a Morph doesn't fill its entire bounds, it has to implement areasRemainingToFill: to correctly render Morphs beneath. See EllipseMorph for an example :) Cheers, Henry

June 10, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] WindowOrganiser (was: Tab widget improvements)

by laurent laffont

Hi Gary, I've played a little and changed: DockingBarMorph subclass: #WindowOrganiser uses: TEasilyThemed instanceVariableNames: 'tabGroup' classVariableNames: '' poolDictionaries: '' category: 'Guru' (sorry, I feel stupid, I don't know how to make a changeset, need to look at this :) So I can open a sort of docking panel: (see attached screenshot) WindowOrganiser new openInWorld; height:200; adhereToBottom. That means we can have docking panels like the IDEs Java students use :) Moreover TWM tile windows only in clear area, so all this play nicely together. I wonder what's the best way to package all this. In Polymorph ? Laurent Laffont - @lolgzs <http://twitter.com/#!/lolgzs> Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Developer group: http://cara74.seasidehosting.st On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>wrote: > Even better when working more properly (attached) > > Regards, Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > *To:* Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > *Sent:* Thursday, June 09, 2011 2:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] Tab widget improvements > > > On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>wrote: > >> Something to get you started... ;-0 >> > > > aaaaargggggggg THAT'S SO DAMN COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Laurent > > > > >> >> WindowOrganiser new open >> >> Optionally, via halo, turn on "Accept drops" for the window, else use the >> window menu to "Grab window...". >> >> Plenty of evilness left to sort out with it, naturally. >> Have fun! >> >> Regards, Gary >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> >> *To:* Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 09, 2011 10:03 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] Tab widget improvements >> >> Hi Laurent. >> >> Sounds like a cool idea and is possible. You'd likely need to modify >> SystemWindow somewhat to deal with being within a tab (remove grips, >> forward label changes to the tab, handle activation (TopWindow stuff might >> be tricky) etc.). You'd also want an option (perhaps a button in the tab >> label) to break the window out again. >> >> For some of this you could get some ideas from StandardWindow with respect >> to fullscreen, #noteNewOwner: >> >> Regards, Gary >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> >> *To:* Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 08, 2011 5:20 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-project] Tab widget improvements >> >> Hi Gary, >> >> I wanted to try what follows while coding TWM, maybe with your magic super >> powers its easy :) >> >> Create a SystemWindow subclass: #TabbedWindow (or better name). >> >> In this window's menu there's the list of all other SystemWindows. When >> you click on it, the window goes as tab. >> >> So I can group several windows in a tabbed container. Like the group >> windows feature of KDE. See >> http://blip.tv/sebastian-kgler/window-managing-features-in-kde-plasma-4-4-3… at >> 1'50. >> >> Is it hard ? Idea how to do this ? >> >> Laurent. >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com>wrote: >> >>> For another example, just a quickly hacked together (i.e. quick and >>> dirty) multi workspace thing attached. >>> >>> MultiWorkspaceWindow new open >>> >>> Use the window menu to add workspaces, otherwise works like a workspace >>> for the selected tab. >>> >>> Regards, Gary >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Chambers" < >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> >>> >>> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 3:26 PM >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Tab widget improvements >>> >>> >>> Lol >>>> >>>> Regards, Gary >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tudor Girba" <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> >>>> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 3:19 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Tab widget improvements >>>> >>>> >>>> You know my soft spot :) >>>> >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8 Jun 2011, at 16:04, Gary Chambers wrote: >>>> >>>> I expect Doru will want it in 1.3 for Moose ;-) >>>>> >>>>> Regards, Gary >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marcus Denker" < >>>>> marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> >>>>> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 3:00 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Tab widget improvements >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 8, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Gary Chambers wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Attached, some improvements to the TabGroupMorph etc. having had >>>>>> feedback from Doru. >>>>>> >>>>>> Provides scrolling buttons when insufficient room for all tabs and >>>>>> displays only tabs for which there is room! (excepting at least one). >>>>>> >>>>>> Can optionally set wrapScrolling on the TabSelectorMorph to allow >>>>>> wraparound scrolling via the buttons. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Do we put that in 1.3 or 1.4? >>>>> >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/list?thanks=4376 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de >>>>> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> >>>> "Live like you mean it." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >

June 10, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Deleting packages in squeaksource.com?

by Lukas Renggli

You need to login and be administrator of the project, then you get some links on the left side to delete versions, packages, etc. Lukas On 10 June 2011 03:55, HwaJong Oh <daliot.oh(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I want to delete some packages that are in my squeaksource repository. They > are either empty or old or part of aborted project. I want to keep my > repository neat and focused. > > Couldn't find any buttons in Monticello Browser nor links in > squeaksource.com. > Plz Help. > > > Best Regards > HwaJong Oh > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Deleting-packages-in-squeaksource-com-tp3587292p35872… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

June 10, 2011

[Pharo-project] FFI versus Alien versus NativeBoost (was FFI versus Aloen)

by Chris Cunnington

// >What shortcomings? I believe there are three outlined in the description on SqueakSource: "It supports faster call sequence, return code setting, and callbacks to execute smalltalk code from the FFI routine." There's something about that last one: callbacks. I think FFI gives a return value, but you can't create a callback. > NativeBoost is faster than FFI, but NB is a whole other ball-of-wax, and I'd like to support it eventually as well as FFI/Alien. Another way to look at it is via what Goran said: in terms of age. FFI is oldest and most well known. Alien less so. NativeBoost is Igor's project and I don't think is widely adopted yet. (Igor's going to show up and squish me like a bug, but oh well... ) Igor did say something interesting about FFI versus plugins at Deep Into Smalltalk. I believe he wrote Native Boost because he was tired of endlessly recompiling vms with plugins. I don't think there is any standard vm with NB in it, which means that's exactly what you're going to need to do to use NB. FFI has a reputation as something that's a bit touchy. It looks a little easier than it is. The prudent choice would be for you to use FFI and curb your ambition away from Alien or NB until later. There are lots more examples of FFI around than Alien and NB combined. OpenSophie has copious code examples. http://opensophie.org/ I have to stop now. I'm only making it worse for when Igor arrives... must go! :p Chris

June 10, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] FFI versus Alien versus NativeBoost (was FFI versus Aloen)

by Javier PimÃ¡s

I think that Alien vs. FFI has more to do with historic reasons than anything else. If I'm right, the original FFI implementation had some problems, like not being reentrant, and therefore not supporting callbacks among other things (someone correct me if wrong). Alien came to solve some of these limitations, but hen FFI was improved and made reentrant, and now both implementations do more or less the same. NativeBoost on the other hand is more like a model of machine instructions, so that you can assemble them. One particular use is to implement the C calling convention, getting a 100% smalltalk FFI. Eliot and Igor will probably be able enlighten us better. Regards, Javier. On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:23 AM, Dave Mason <dmason(a)mason-rose.ca> wrote: > > On 2011-Jun-9, at 17:47 , Chris Cunnington wrote: > > Do you mean Alien? >> > > Yes Alien....damned thumb keyboards.... > > Alien is newer and was written to address some shortcomings in FFI. >> > > What shortcomings? > > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6100 >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/ >> >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2010-March/023328.html >> >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-April/148455.ht… >> > > I followed those threads, but they don't really say why. NativeBoost is > faster than FFI, but NB is a whole other ball-of-wax, and I'd like to > support it eventually as well as FFI/Alien. > > Thanks ../Dave > > -- Javier PimÃ¡s Ciudad de Buenos Aires

June 10, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] FFI versus Alien versus NativeBoost (was FFI versus Aloen)

by Esteban Lorenzano

right now, you should use FFI Eliot is implementing a new FFI implementation, with callbacks and threads, and that should be the better option in the near future. Cheers, Esteban El 10/06/2011, a las 12:23a.m., Dave Mason escribiÃ³: > > On 2011-Jun-9, at 17:47 , Chris Cunnington wrote: > >> Do you mean Alien? > > Yes Alien....damned thumb keyboards.... > >> Alien is newer and was written to address some shortcomings in FFI. > > What shortcomings? > >> http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6100 >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/ >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2010-March/023328.html >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-April/148455.ht… > > I followed those threads, but they don't really say why. NativeBoost is faster than FFI, but NB is a whole other ball-of-wax, and I'd like to support it eventually as well as FFI/Alien. > > Thanks ../Dave >

June 10, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] FFI versus Alien versus NativeBoost (was FFI versus Aloen)

by Dave Mason

On 2011-Jun-9, at 17:47 , Chris Cunnington wrote: > Do you mean Alien? Yes Alien....damned thumb keyboards.... > Alien is newer and was written to address some shortcomings in FFI. What shortcomings? > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6100 > http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/ > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2010-March/023328.html > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-April/148455.ht… I followed those threads, but they don't really say why. NativeBoost is faster than FFI, but NB is a whole other ball-of-wax, and I'd like to support it eventually as well as FFI/Alien. Thanks ../Dave

June 10, 2011

[Pharo-project] Deleting packages in squeaksource.com?

by HwaJong Oh

Hi, I want to delete some packages that are in my squeaksource repository. They are either empty or old or part of aborted project. I want to keep my repository neat and focused. Couldn't find any buttons in Monticello Browser nor links in squeaksource.com. Plz Help. Best Regards HwaJong Oh -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Deleting-packages-in-squeaksource-com-tp3587292p35872… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 10, 2011