June 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] #assert:equals: feels backwards

by laurent laffont

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 7:58 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > > On Jun 22, 2011, at 7:44 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > Camillo and Dennis, > > > > Thanks for answer and yes, I think you're right about using > PhExample/Mocketry DSL, that's the way to go. > > except that I would not patch SUnit but have another Testing framework for > that. > And I\m not sure that I want to write should equals:..... not enought > experience to have a good point of view > > I don't know about PhExample but Mocketry does not patch SUnit but provide extensions to Object / SmallInteger / ... for the DSL part. It loads easily and also have an HelpSystem book :) Gofer it squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfMocketry'; load. ConfigurationOfMocketry load. 1 should equal: 1. I think I will use it for TWM. Laurent. > > > Laurent. > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > 2011/6/22 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > > IMO having the expected value before is the right way ! Do you TDD ? It > makes a lot of sense for me to write assert: expected equals: actual. Am I > alone ? > > > > I practice TDD, and I start tests with assertions (after naming them). > But I'm not sure I specify expected value first, as I'm focused on the > result (I write the test for). Btw, I use Mocketry and exploit its sugar (or > DSL?) for specifications there. So, I write: > > > > actualValue should equal: expectedValue. > > > > That is, after I've decided on a test case and named it, I think: what > should I test? That's the actualValue. I name and write it. And only after > that, I think about the value it should haveâ¦ well, in most cases at least. > > > > Anyway, I'm not sure an order I use to write assertion should be repeated > by assertion messages. Just as order I use to write a test (name -> > assertion -> the way to fetch the actual value -> â¦) is not reflected by > test code. It's much more important to have a readable and understandable > (after many months) code. And for me it's much more natural to read it this > way: > > > > self assert: actualValue equals: expectedValue > > > > > > > > If you do TDD, you have first to decide what you expect. You don't know > how to get it because the code doesn't exist yet. So you usually I write > > > > self assert: 'i want this' equals: > > > > then stop because I have to think about the interface / selectors / > object I want. So it matches the flow of thought when I'm writing tests. > > > > And the other weird thing is that with this "fix" I now have to change > hundred of tests I've written to be semantically correct !!!! > > > > > > Laurent. > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Sean P. DeNigris < > sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > > > Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > > > I don't understand Sean's problem. > > > > > > > Still using 1.2.2 :) Thanks for fixing it. > > > > Sean > > > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/assert-equals-feels-backwards-tp3614760p3615548.html > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Dennis Schetinin > > > > >

June 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] #assert:equals: feels backwards

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Jun 22, 2011, at 7:44 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > Camillo and Dennis, > > Thanks for answer and yes, I think you're right about using PhExample/Mocketry DSL, that's the way to go. except that I would not patch SUnit but have another Testing framework for that. And I\m not sure that I want to write should equals:..... not enought experience to have a good point of view > > Laurent. > > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > 2011/6/22 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > IMO having the expected value before is the right way ! Do you TDD ? It makes a lot of sense for me to write assert: expected equals: actual. Am I alone ? > > I practice TDD, and I start tests with assertions (after naming them). But I'm not sure I specify expected value first, as I'm focused on the result (I write the test for). Btw, I use Mocketry and exploit its sugar (or DSL?) for specifications there. So, I write: > > actualValue should equal: expectedValue. > > That is, after I've decided on a test case and named it, I think: what should I test? That's the actualValue. I name and write it. And only after that, I think about the value it should haveâ¦ well, in most cases at least. > > Anyway, I'm not sure an order I use to write assertion should be repeated by assertion messages. Just as order I use to write a test (name -> assertion -> the way to fetch the actual value -> â¦) is not reflected by test code. It's much more important to have a readable and understandable (after many months) code. And for me it's much more natural to read it this way: > > self assert: actualValue equals: expectedValue > > > > If you do TDD, you have first to decide what you expect. You don't know how to get it because the code doesn't exist yet. So you usually I write > > self assert: 'i want this' equals: > > then stop because I have to think about the interface / selectors / object I want. So it matches the flow of thought when I'm writing tests. > > And the other weird thing is that with this "fix" I now have to change hundred of tests I've written to be semantically correct !!!! > > > Laurent. > > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > I don't understand Sean's problem. > > > > Still using 1.2.2 :) Thanks for fixing it. > > Sean > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/assert-equals-feels-backwards-tp3614760p3615548.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > > > -- > Dennis Schetinin >

June 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Comparison of Aida/Web, Seaside and Iliad web frameworks

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

We could even write a paper for a Smalltalk workshop based on the elements in the future :) On Jun 21, 2011, at 10:18 PM, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: > Dear Smalltalkers, > > Few months ago I started a comparison of Aida, Seaside and Iliad web > frameworks, with initial goal to check the strengths and weaknesses of > Aida to draw a direction for future Aida development. > > But later I came to idea (and was encouraged also by Stef and others) to > improve it and make this comparison public, therefore for all of you. I > then invited few Iliad and Seaside guys to help balance the comparison, > but unfortunately Seasiders were not willing to join, with their stated > reason that spreadsheet of comparative features is not the best way to > do such comparison. My answer is that a form of spreadsheet is a > simplest start of such comparison. This feature list and check marks can > be later a foundation for some more advanced comparison. We need to > start from somewhere and such checkmarked spreadsheet is easiest to > achieve in a shortest time. > > So, now I'm inviting all of you to take a look at this Google Docs > spreadsheet and comment it. This way we will come at least one step > closer to so needed comparison: > > https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Atnb1W9vuq9ndGRTUFIzT3VON0lTQ3Jxdl… > > Best regards > Janko > > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Aida/Web > Smalltalk Web Application Server > http://www.aidaweb.si >

June 22, 2011

[Pharo-project] Fwd: [vwnc] Comparison of Aida/Web, Seaside and Iliad web frameworks

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

soo funny :) He missed a row: vision :) Stef Begin forwarded message: > From: pharo-project-owner(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Date: June 22, 2011 7:32:32 AM GMT+02:00 > To: stephane.ducasse(a)gmail.com > Subject: Fwd: [vwnc] Comparison of Aida/Web, Seaside and Iliad web frameworks > > You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has > been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are > being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at > pharo-project-owner(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr. > > > From: stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)gmail.com> > Date: June 22, 2011 7:32:21 AM GMT+02:00 > To: Pharo Development <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Subject: Fwd: [vwnc] Comparison of Aida/Web, Seaside and Iliad web frameworks > > > I will let you guys judge how funny some smalltalkers are... > > Stef > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs" <boris(a)deepcovelabs.com> >> Date: June 22, 2011 4:52:42 AM GMT+02:00 >> To: "VWNC" <vwnc(a)cs.uiuc.edu> >> Subject: Re: [vwnc] Comparison of Aida/Web, Seaside and Iliad web frameworks >> >> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2737880/screenshots/pharovsvisualworks.png >> >> >> >> -Boris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: vwnc-bounces(a)cs.uiuc.edu [mailto:vwnc-bounces@cs.uiuc.edu] On Behalf Of Janko MivÅ¡ek >> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:01 PM >> To: 'VWNC' >> Subject: Re: [vwnc] Comparison of Aida/Web, Seaside and Iliad web frameworks >> >> S, Travis Griggs piÅ¡e: >> ... >> >> >> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Atnb1W9vuq9ndGRTUFIzT3VON0lT >> >> Q3JxdlZYTUxhOFE&hl=en&authkey=CJva7-8L&pli=1#gid=0 >> >> > Very nice Janko. I agree that having something like this is very handy. I think with some polish and rounding out, it could be a nice thing. >> >> Thanks Travis. We need to have a clear picture where we are with web frameworks to go further and be on the frontiers of web technologies again. That was my initial goal of this comparison for Aida and I hope with a bit polishing soon for Iliad and Seaside as well. >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> -- >> Janko MivÅ¡ek >> Aida/Web >> Smalltalk Web Application Server >> http://www.aidaweb.si >> _______________________________________________ >> vwnc mailing list >> vwnc(a)cs.uiuc.edu >> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc >> _______________________________________________ >> vwnc mailing list >> vwnc(a)cs.uiuc.edu >> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc > > >

June 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] #assert:equals: feels backwards

by laurent laffont

Camillo and Dennis, Thanks for answer and yes, I think you're right about using PhExample/Mocketry DSL, that's the way to go. Laurent. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 6:31 AM, Dennis Schetinin <chaetal(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > 2011/6/22 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > >> IMO having the expected value before is the right way ! Do you TDD ? It >> makes a lot of sense for me to write assert: expected equals: actual. Am I >> alone ? >> > > I practice TDD, and I start tests with assertions (after naming them). But > I'm not sure I specify expected value first, as I'm focused on the result (I > write the test for). Btw, I use Mocketry and exploit its sugar (or DSL?) for > specifications there. So, I write: > > actualValue should equal: expectedValue. > > > That is, after I've decided on a test case and named it, I think: what > should I test? That's the actualValue. I name and write it. And only after > that, I think about the value it should haveâ¦ well, in most cases at least. > > Anyway, I'm not sure an order I use to write assertion should be repeated > by assertion messages. Just as order I use to write a test (name -> > assertion -> the way to fetch the actual value -> â¦) is not reflected by > test code. It's much more important to have a readable and understandable > (after many months) code. And for me it's much more natural to read it this > way: > > self assert: actualValue equals: expectedValue > > > > > If you do TDD, you have first to decide what you expect. You don't know how >> to get it because the code doesn't exist yet. So you usually I write >> >> self assert: 'i want this' equals: >> >> then stop because I have to think about the interface / selectors / object >> I want. So it matches the flow of thought when I'm writing tests. >> >> And the other weird thing is that with this "fix" I now have to change >> hundred of tests I've written to be semantically correct !!!! >> >> >> Laurent. >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com >> > wrote: >> >>> >>> Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >>> > >>> > I don't understand Sean's problem. >>> > >>> >>> Still using 1.2.2 :) Thanks for fixing it. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://forum.world.st/assert-equals-feels-backwards-tp3614760p3615548.html >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Dennis Schetinin >

June 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] PharoKernel 13269

by Yanni Chiu

On 21/06/11 3:29 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > what we should pay attention (to be verified) is that igor told me that he does not understand why > the latest code of the vm published by eliot does not include some fixes he did for 1.2. May be the code was never integrated. Until now (because it's what I got used to doing), I've always gotten Cog VMs from Eliot's site - I forgot about the Hudson builds. I just tried the last successful build of the Cog Mac Cocoa VM - Build #28 (May 18, 2011 4:29:18 AM). I got a vm crash on all the PharoKernel images. VM crashed for other non-Kernel images too, so I think it's a VM problem. I have a slightly older version of MacOSX. ===== Process: CogVM [71927] Path: /Users/yanni/apps/squeakvm/CogVM.app/Contents/MacOS/CogVM Identifier: org.squeakfoundation.Squeak Version: ??? (???) Code Type: X86 (Native) Parent Process: launchd [292] Interval Since Last Report: 656 sec Crashes Since Last Report: 1 Per-App Interval Since Last Report: 0 sec Per-App Crashes Since Last Report: 1 Date/Time: 2011-06-22 00:47:09.876 -0400 OS Version: Mac OS X 10.5.8 (9L30) Report Version: 6 Anonymous UUID: XXXXXXXX Exception Type: EXC_BREAKPOINT (SIGTRAP) Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000002, 0x0000000000000000 Crashed Thread: 0 Dyld Error Message: unknown required load command 0x80000022

June 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] #assert:equals: feels backwards

by Dennis Schetinin

2011/6/22 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > IMO having the expected value before is the right way ! Do you TDD ? It > makes a lot of sense for me to write assert: expected equals: actual. Am I > alone ? > I practice TDD, and I start tests with assertions (after naming them). But I'm not sure I specify expected value first, as I'm focused on the result (I write the test for). Btw, I use Mocketry and exploit its sugar (or DSL?) for specifications there. So, I write: actualValue should equal: expectedValue. That is, after I've decided on a test case and named it, I think: what should I test? That's the actualValue. I name and write it. And only after that, I think about the value it should haveâ¦ well, in most cases at least. Anyway, I'm not sure an order I use to write assertion should be repeated by assertion messages. Just as order I use to write a test (name -> assertion -> the way to fetch the actual value -> â¦) is not reflected by test code. It's much more important to have a readable and understandable (after many months) code. And for me it's much more natural to read it this way: self assert: actualValue equals: expectedValue If you do TDD, you have first to decide what you expect. You don't know how > to get it because the code doesn't exist yet. So you usually I write > > self assert: 'i want this' equals: > > then stop because I have to think about the interface / selectors / object > I want. So it matches the flow of thought when I'm writing tests. > > And the other weird thing is that with this "fix" I now have to change > hundred of tests I've written to be semantically correct !!!! > > > Laurent. > > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>wrote: > >> >> Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: >> > >> > I don't understand Sean's problem. >> > >> >> Still using 1.2.2 :) Thanks for fixing it. >> >> Sean >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/assert-equals-feels-backwards-tp3614760p3615548.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> > -- Dennis Schetinin

June 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] #assert:equals: feels backwards

by Camillo Bruni

Why don't you use the Phexample tools, for me this feels much more natural and the error output is much more readable.. self assert: 1 = 2. becomes 1 should = 2. http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~akuhn/blog/2009/shoulda-use-this-in-pharo/ http://smalltalkthoughts.blogspot.com/2009/11/phexample-because-examples-ex… camillo On 2011-06-22, at 06:02, laurent laffont wrote: > IMO having the expected value before is the right way ! Do you TDD ? It makes a lot of sense for me to write assert: expected equals: actual. Am I alone ? > > If you do TDD, you have first to decide what you expect. You don't know how to get it because the code doesn't exist yet. So you usually I write > > self assert: 'i want this' equals: > > then stop because I have to think about the interface / selectors / object I want. So it matches the flow of thought when I'm writing tests. > > And the other weird thing is that with this "fix" I now have to change hundred of tests I've written to be semantically correct !!!! > > > Laurent. > > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > I don't understand Sean's problem. > > > > Still using 1.2.2 :) Thanks for fixing it. > > Sean > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/assert-equals-feels-backwards-tp3614760p3615548.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

June 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] #assert:equals: feels backwards

by laurent laffont

IMO having the expected value before is the right way ! Do you TDD ? It makes a lot of sense for me to write assert: expected equals: actual. Am I alone ? If you do TDD, you have first to decide what you expect. You don't know how to get it because the code doesn't exist yet. So you usually I write self assert: 'i want this' equals: then stop because I have to think about the interface / selectors / object I want. So it matches the flow of thought when I'm writing tests. And the other weird thing is that with this "fix" I now have to change hundred of tests I've written to be semantically correct !!!! Laurent. On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>wrote: > > Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > I don't understand Sean's problem. > > > > Still using 1.2.2 :) Thanks for fixing it. > > Sean > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/assert-equals-feels-backwards-tp3614760p3615548.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

June 22, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [PBE-Spanish] Status update 2011-06-21

by Diogenes Moreira

Thank you very muchhhhhhhh. for your efforts D (and the english wrong readers ) On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Nicolas Paez <nicopaez(a)gmail.com> wrote: > ** > Hello everyone, > > Here is the weekly update of the Spanish translation of Pharo By Example > book. > > *Summary* > > - Just 4 charpters remaining to complete the rough translation. > - During this week we will focus on completing the translation of the > remaining chapters and on fixing the compilation errors we are getting. > - We have also started to define the revision process. > - By end of June we will publish a new drop with the completed > chapters. > > *Chapters drill down* > > Chapter 01: 80% > Chapter 02: completed, but not published yet and with compilation errors > Chapter 03: completed, already published > Chapter 04: completed, already published > Chapter 05: completed, but not published yet and with compilation errors > Chapter 06: 21% > Chapter 07: completed, and with compilation errors > Chapter 08: completed, and with compilation errors > Chapter 09: completed, and with compilation errors > Chapter 10: just started > Chapter 11: completed, already published > Chapter 12: 52% > Chapter 13: completed, and with compilation errors > Chapter 14: completed > > Regards, > NicoPaez > http://nicopaez.wordpress.com >

June 22, 2011