May 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Can't load OSProcess in last Pharo Core 1.3

by Adrien BARREAU

I just saw that update 13205 removed ImageSegment from the StartUpList. Replacing Smalltalk addToStartUpList: ThisOSProcess after: ImageSegment. by Smalltalk addToStartUpList: ThisOSProcess before: UUIDGenerator. in ThisOSProcess>>initialize would be ok I think (and would have the same result). Adrien. From: abarreau.dev(a)live.fr To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:07:04 +0200 Subject: [Pharo-project] Can't load OSProcess in last Pharo Core 1.3 Hi all, I just tried to load OSProcess in the last PharoCore 1.3 (I took it from hudson). It fails when it tries to add ThisOSProcess to the startup list with: Smalltalk addToStartUpList: ThisOSProcess after: ImageSegment. in ThisOSProcess class>>initialize. It seems that ImageSegment is not in the StartUpList anymore. Is that normal? Adrien.

May 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] Re: out of memory - cog on windows

by Tudor Girba

Hi, I am not sure I understand where we are on this issue. I will say it again that I find it to be critical to be able to work with images that are not small :). Would it be possible to find some resolution on it? Cheers, Doru On 20 May 2011, at 17:08, Andreas Raab wrote: > On 5/20/2011 16:57, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> Here an excert from crash.dmp: >> >> Memory Information (upon launch): >> Physical Memory Size: 4194303 kbytes >> Physical Memory Free: 2507424 kbytes >> Page File Size: 4194303 kbytes >> Page File Free: 4194303 kbytes >> Virtual Memory Size: 2097024 kbytes >> Virtual Memory Free: 2030280 kbytes >> Memory Load: 59 percent >> >> this is strange. >> Of course, with sizes like above , it cannot fit into memory. > > Nothing strange about it. Standard 4GB Ram configuration with about 2GB available. > > Cheers, > - Andreas > > >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> On 18 May 2011, at 18:07, Levente Uzonyi wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 18 May 2011, Tudor Girba wrote: >>>> >>>> snip >>>> >>>>> I tried with several versions of Cog including the latest ones (on both platforms) and I got the same result. I did not try with an interpreter VM because I only have Cog images around (based on Pharo 1.2) and they are not compatible. >>>> You can use this interpreter vm to open cog images: http://leves.web.elte.hu/squeak/SqueakVM-Win32-4.4.9-2358-non-official-bin.… >>> I tried with this VM, but it crashes with the attached error. >>> >>> In any case, if someone wants to reproduce it, here is an image to play with: >>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18323746/Tmp/moose-case-study-windows-problem.zip >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Levente >>>> >>>> snip >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Being happy is a matter of choice." >>> >>> >> >> -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow."

May 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] paragraph replacement?

by Tudor Girba

Hi, In NewParagraph>>clickAt: clickPoint for: model controller: editor there is a call to: ... att actOnClickFor: target in: self at: clickPoint editor: editor ... However, actOnClickFor:in:at:editor: does not exist. This method is also missing from Pharo 1.2. Anyone knows where to get it from? Cheers, Doru On 20 May 2011, at 14:02, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > > On 20 May 2011, at 13:28, Marcus Denker wrote: > >> >> On May 20, 2011, at 1:22 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Another class we used in EyeSee (besides Circle) is Paragraph. I see that this class is now deprecated and empty. What should we use instead of it? >>> >> >> NewParagraph >> >> It has a different API, though. And there is a subclass that is the one used by the system (MultiNewParaph)... this part of the system definitly needs more cleanup >> and simplification. > > Thanks. I kind of made it work :). Now, all EyeSee examples are green again :) > > Cheers, > Doru > > >> >> -- >> Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de >> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. >> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every successful trip needs a suitable vehicle." > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Sometimes the best solution is not the best solution."

May 20, 2011

[Pharo-project] [update 1.3] #13207

by Marcus Denker

13207 ----- Issue 4173: If sources file is not present, something bad happens -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

May 20, 2011

[Pharo-project] Can't load OSProcess in last Pharo Core 1.3

by Adrien BARREAU

Hi all, I just tried to load OSProcess in the last PharoCore 1.3 (I took it from hudson). It fails when it tries to add ThisOSProcess to the startup list with: Smalltalk addToStartUpList: ThisOSProcess after: ImageSegment. in ThisOSProcess class>>initialize. It seems that ImageSegment is not in the StartUpList anymore. Is that normal? Adrien.

May 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Name spaces

by Marcus Denker

On May 20, 2011, at 4:31 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote: >>> >> Maybe we can establish a new tradition and have a 100+ discussion about namespaces >> every year. It worked well for Squeak... > Wasn't the whole idea of Pharo to turn every "discussion in Squeak" into a "do in pharo"? Yes. We want namespaces. But we don't want to discuss about them now if we don't have the manpower to *do* anything. Let's finish the stuff already started... we really can't open yet another things now. (At least I can't. I can't even read a discussion. I am full) Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

May 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] SIXX problem for ScaledDecimal

by Ralph Boland

> From: Chris Cunningham <cunningham.cb(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] SIXX problem for ScaledDecimal > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Message-ID: <BANLkTinP7E_oh2Fi2=axmra6JsoXVJYWkg(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > For ScaledDecimal, SIXX should definite store it as the underlying > fraction. Storing it in the printed fashion does change the value of > the ScaledDecimal. > (1/3) asScaledDecimal: 2 gives 0.33s2 > and > (33/100) asScaledDecimal: 2 gives 0.33s2 > yet > 0.33s2 ~= ( (1/3) asScaledDecimal: 2 ) > and > ( (1/3) asScaledDecimal: 2 ) ~= ( (33/100) asScaledDecimal: 2 ) > In other words, the ScaledDecimal is about the precise internal number > and the scale to display it - which is NOT the scale that it is stored > as. > -Chris I don't agree. ScaledDecimal would be used where consistency is often more important than accuracy, e.g. in Financial calculations where being off by a few pennies doesn't matter but always getting the same answer matters a LOT. Once a number is converted to a ScaledDecimal computations must always produce the same result assuming enough digits. To ensure this asScaledDecimal must produce a scaled decimal for use in computations and, as such, storing a fraction internally is unacceptable. >From a financial point of view 1/3 * 3 is not 1! >From a programmers point of view asScaledDecimal changes the value in much the same way asInteger does for a float. Having said all of this allow me to contradict myself. It seems to me that a scaled decimal should in general store more digits than are displayed. For example money might be stored with a large (possibly arbitrary) number of digits after the decimal point but only display two digits beyond the decimal point. I don't know how ScaledDecimal is implemented but I would be inclined to use arbitrary or large size integers and store the location of the decimal point internally recomputing the position of the decimal point after each calculation. This is an expensive way of doing computations but I expect users of ScaledDecimal can live with that. When converting non decimal results to ScaledDecimal then how many digits of precision to maintain must be specified somehow. Dealing with ScaledDecimal is a complicated matter and I have probably failed to appreciate many of the complications but whoever is implementing ScaledDecimal (and Smalltalk needs ScaledDecimal) needs to appreciate those complications. Anybody here a financial expert? Ralph Boland

May 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Name spaces

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

On 20. 05. 2011 16:30, Toon Verwaest wrote: > On 05/20/2011 03:46 PM, Marcus Denker wrote: >>>>> sorry guy I do not have the time for discussing that. >>>> But it is certainly needed to be discussed and it would be nice if at >>>> least a timeframe for this discussion is announced. If not put in a >>>> plan for Pharo ... >>> Yes, name spaces haven't yet been discussed enough. >> Maybe we can establish a new tradition and have a 100+ discussion >> about namespaces every year. It worked well for Squeak... > Wasn't the whole idea of Pharo to turn every "discussion in Squeak" into > a "do in pharo"? That's exactly what I wanted to add :) Janko -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

May 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Name spaces

by Nicolas Petton

What did I say... I didn't mean to start an endless discussion, I don't know at all what is the state of namespaces in Pharo. Sorry for not following more this ML, I guess. Nicolas Le vendredi 20 mai 2011 Ã 16:00 +0200, Philippe Marschall a Ã©crit : > On 05/20/2011 03:46 PM, Marcus Denker wrote: > > > > On May 20, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Philippe Marschall wrote: > > > >> On 05/20/2011 02:52 PM, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: > >>> On 20. 05. 2011 14:15, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >>> > >>>>>>> I'm wondering what is the status of the name spaces project developed last summer as part of GSoC. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> nowhere and do not expect it to be in pharo. > >>>>> > >>>>> Why that? Is it because of the implementation or because you don't want > >>>>> namespaces in Pharo? > >>>> > >>>> sorry guy I do not have the time for discussing that. > >>> > >>> But it is certainly needed to be discussed and it would be nice if at > >>> least a timeframe for this discussion is announced. If not put in a plan > >>> for Pharo ... > >> > >> Yes, name spaces haven't yet been discussed enough. > >> > > Maybe we can establish a new tradition and have a 100+ discussion about namespaces > > every year. It worked well for Squeak... > > Like we already have for why Smalltalk is not more popular. That would > be nice. > > Cheers > Philippe > > -- Nicolas Petton http://www.nicolas-petton.fr

May 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Just in case ...

by Max Leske

Sources / changes files: As far as I'm concerned: not needed anymore. If there is to be a file that contains source code it should have a different format than the changes / sources files have today: they are very hard to understand when looked at with a text editor the mechanism used to read / write the files should not be hard coded into the filesystem library if the files contain special symbols (#method, #preamble, #classComment etc.), give the symbols a place to live and don't expect developers to go and collect symbols from serveral different methods DOCUMENT THE FORMAT AND THE IMPLEMENATION! Finally. That had to get out... :) Cheers, Max On 20.05.2011, at 16:02, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > Short mental exercise: > > What if ... diskpacks are burned and someone would come, give you > enough time and resources to (re)implement the Pharo system and VM > from scratch: > > Pharo Image/Sources > - how would it look like > - how would it differ from current design > - what would be included > - how would it be maintained > - how would it be used/who would use it > > VM > - how would it look like > - how would it differ from current VM design > - how would it be implemented/generated > - how would it be maintained > > Even answers are welcome with ideas impossible to realize > in the near future ... but it may help to find > > - possible next steps > - features we havent thought about, yet > > Thx > T. > > > > > -- > Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir > belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de >

May 20, 2011