May 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Johan Brichau

That is a superb response, Toon! I could not agree more. Let me add to that Smalltalk is not dead. It's the stealth weapon of mass productivity used by small technology startups ;-) Johan On 05 May 2011, at 09:58, Toon Verwaest wrote: > Hi, > > I can tell you that independent of how the industry might perceive the language Smalltalk, learning Smalltalk will make you personally a better software engineer. And this is what the industry does want. You will look at programming from a new angle and this will give you an edge. > > This is also true for learning other old languages like Scheme or Lisp. As long as you stay within your Java / .NET bubble you will be one in a billion. If you learn Smalltalk, the fact you know something that other people might not makes you more special. The only negative part of learning Smalltalk while working on other types of applications is that you will eat your shoe 95% of the time hating that Java / .NET aren't more evolved and flexible :) > > As it seems that you are already working on a project revolving around Smalltalk, be very happy that you are getting the opportunity to learn it; you'll come out for the better. > > Lastly, don't care too much about popularity within industry. If you take the time to learn the systems for yourself you will probably learn to understand the differences yourself. You are currently also part of industry and obviously don't know Smalltalk well yet; how informed was your decision to not know Smalltalk? You are part of "the industry" making other people not choose Smalltalk based on your (non-)choice of not using Smalltalk; if they would all think this way! Sheep won't change anything :) > > cheers, > Toon > > On 05/05/2011 07:38 AM, sourav roy wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I have just started my career in Software/IT industry and got into a project which involes enhancement/maintainance of product built in Smalltalk. >> >> I was never exposed to this language before and have no idea if it is used in the Industry as popularly as JAVA and .NET and looks like its a DEAD >> >> language for the industry. I may be wrong but i need some clarification about it. >> >> >> I just want to know that why smalltalk is not so popular as the other OOPs Languages and what is the future prospect of >> >> one if he/she is into Smalltalk development. >> >> Looking for some positive note so that it may give me some entho for working with Smalltalk. >> >> Thanks&Regards, >> >> Sourav Roy >> >> >> >> Get Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now! >

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Toon Verwaest

> Very well written, Toon! > Thanks! > And like you say, there is a danger: Smalltalk is the Red Pill, once you know it and get it, you will never want to go back. > To say it in the words of people more famous than me: "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" -- Alan Perlis For me, Java and .NET have never really been worth knowing. cheers, Toon

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Peter Hugosson-Miller

On 5 maj 2011, at 10:07, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: > > On 05 May 2011, at 09:58, Toon Verwaest wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I can tell you that independent of how the industry might perceive the language Smalltalk, learning Smalltalk will make you personally a better software engineer. And this is what the industry does want. You will look at programming from a new angle and this will give you an edge. >> >> This is also true for learning other old languages like Scheme or Lisp. As long as you stay within your Java / .NET bubble you will be one in a billion. If you learn Smalltalk, the fact you know something that other people might not makes you more special. The only negative part of learning Smalltalk while working on other types of applications is that you will eat your shoe 95% of the time hating that Java / .NET aren't more evolved and flexible :) >> >> As it seems that you are already working on a project revolving around Smalltalk, be very happy that you are getting the opportunity to learn it; you'll come out for the better. >> >> Lastly, don't care too much about popularity within industry. If you take the time to learn the systems for yourself you will probably learn to understand the differences yourself. You are currently also part of industry and obviously don't know Smalltalk well yet; how informed was your decision to not know Smalltalk? You are part of "the industry" making other people not choose Smalltalk based on your (non-)choice of not using Smalltalk; if they would all think this way! Sheep won't change anything :) >> >> cheers, >> Toon > > Very well written, Toon! > > And like you say, there is a danger: Smalltalk is the Red Pill, once you know it and get it, you will never want to go back. This is all too true! :-/ -- Cheers, Peter > > You have been warned. > > Sven > >

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 05 May 2011, at 09:58, Toon Verwaest wrote: > Hi, > > I can tell you that independent of how the industry might perceive the language Smalltalk, learning Smalltalk will make you personally a better software engineer. And this is what the industry does want. You will look at programming from a new angle and this will give you an edge. > > This is also true for learning other old languages like Scheme or Lisp. As long as you stay within your Java / .NET bubble you will be one in a billion. If you learn Smalltalk, the fact you know something that other people might not makes you more special. The only negative part of learning Smalltalk while working on other types of applications is that you will eat your shoe 95% of the time hating that Java / .NET aren't more evolved and flexible :) > > As it seems that you are already working on a project revolving around Smalltalk, be very happy that you are getting the opportunity to learn it; you'll come out for the better. > > Lastly, don't care too much about popularity within industry. If you take the time to learn the systems for yourself you will probably learn to understand the differences yourself. You are currently also part of industry and obviously don't know Smalltalk well yet; how informed was your decision to not know Smalltalk? You are part of "the industry" making other people not choose Smalltalk based on your (non-)choice of not using Smalltalk; if they would all think this way! Sheep won't change anything :) > > cheers, > Toon Very well written, Toon! And like you say, there is a danger: Smalltalk is the Red Pill, once you know it and get it, you will never want to go back. You have been warned. Sven

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by Alain rastoul

Keep on making Pharo, IMHO it's the best thing that happened to squeak since years - though I was very septic at the beginning Last time I made a small demo to 2 of my collegues they didn't laugh - scouic - and were even impressed by smalltalk concepts -- Alain_rastoul

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Toon Verwaest

Hi, I can tell you that independent of how the industry might perceive the language Smalltalk, learning Smalltalk will make you personally a better software engineer. And this is what the industry does want. You will look at programming from a new angle and this will give you an edge. This is also true for learning other old languages like Scheme or Lisp. As long as you stay within your Java / .NET bubble you will be one in a billion. If you learn Smalltalk, the fact you know something that other people might not makes you more special. The only negative part of learning Smalltalk while working on other types of applications is that you will eat your shoe 95% of the time hating that Java / .NET aren't more evolved and flexible :) As it seems that you are already working on a project revolving around Smalltalk, be very happy that you are getting the opportunity to learn it; you'll come out for the better. Lastly, don't care too much about popularity within industry. If you take the time to learn the systems for yourself you will probably learn to understand the differences yourself. You are currently also part of industry and obviously don't know Smalltalk well yet; how informed was your decision to not know Smalltalk? You are part of "the industry" making other people not choose Smalltalk based on your (non-)choice of not using Smalltalk; if they would all think this way! Sheep won't change anything :) cheers, Toon On 05/05/2011 07:38 AM, sourav roy wrote: > > > Hi All, > > I have just started my career in Software/IT industry and got into a > project which involes enhancement/maintainance of product built in > Smalltalk. > > I was never exposed to this language before and have no idea if it is > used in the Industry as popularly as JAVA and .NET and looks like its > a DEAD > > language for the industry. I may be wrong but i need some > clarification about it. > > > I just want to know that why smalltalk is not so popular as the other > OOPs Languages and what is the future prospect of > > one if he/she is into Smalltalk development. > > Looking for some positive note so that it may give me some entho for > working with Smalltalk. > > Thanks&Regards, > > Sourav Roy > > > > Get Yourself a cool, short *(a)in.com* Email ID now! > <http://mail.in.com/mails/new_reg.php?utm_source=invite&utm_medium=outgoing>

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by Alain rastoul

On Wed, 4 May 2011 23:40:59 +0200, StÃ©phane Ducasse<stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > thanks alain!!! > did you sign the license agreement? Not yet but I will no problem , I just have to find a printer and scanner and I send it to you > Setf > On May 4, 2011, at 10:28 PM, Alain_Rastoul wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have a changeset to fix most tests -all except one at this time- of = > Nile, > > most of the red tests are the same errors related to NewParagraph, > > NSTranscripter, so the changeset is very small but I don't the = > procedure to > > submit a fix ? > > Do I add a comment to the issue at code.google with the attached = > changeset ? > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4051 > > > > Do someone review the code (as I am new to Pharo and don't know much = > of Nile > > , Transcripter ) ? > > Do someone - ... who? ... - incorporate the changeset in the sources = > of the > > package ? > > > > TIA > > > > Alain > > > > > > > > -- Alain_rastoul

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Just starting out

by Douglas Brebner

On 04/05/2011 08:58, Toon Verwaest wrote: > On 05/04/2011 09:53 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> On 04 May 2011, at 09:41, Toon Verwaest wrote: >> >>> On 05/04/2011 07:20 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>> this is because they are forced to do so because of a new law in >>>> the us about crypto. >>>> Believe they do not like that. >>> What law is that, and why? Sounds interesting :) >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_in_the_United_States >> >> Basically, encryption is a weapon. >> >> Sven > Uncrackable encryption will allow drug lords, spies, terrorists and > even violent gangs to communicate about their crimes and their > conspiracies with impunity. We will lose one of the few remaining > vulnerabilities of the worst criminals and terrorists upon which law > enforcement depends to successfully investigate and often prevent the > worst crimes. > For this reason, the law enforcement community is unanimous in calling > for a balanced solution to this problem. > > I have to wonder if the people behind this realise that public key encryption was originally invented in the UK, not the USA which makes export controls rather pointless :)

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by Markus Fritsche

Hello Setf + list, on the google project page it says that "sendig via email" is okay, in the document it says fax or, preferred, snail-mail - is it okay to email the license agreement? If yes, to which address? Regards, Makrus 2011/5/4 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > thanks alain!!! > did you sign the license agreement? > > Setf > > On May 4, 2011, at 10:28 PM, Alain_Rastoul wrote:

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Noury Bouraqadi

HI Sourav, Smalltalk is unfortunately not main stream, one reason is that there were no free version until the end of the 90's. Still there are companies using it some of them since the 80's and doing only Smalltalk. You can find a list here : http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Smaltalk/Companies You can meet some of them at Smalltalk events such as the ESUG yearly conference (the 19th edition will take place next august in UK), Smalltalks conf in argentina (fall) or Smalltalk Solution in the US (last march). At such conferences, one can see the energy of the community and all great innovations that are made possible by using Smalltalk. You can have a list of Smalltalk success stories in business on sites such as : -http://www.pharo-project.org/about/success-stories -http://www.stic.st/successes/ (STIC is the Smalltalk Industry Council). Best, Noury http://car.mines-douai.fr/noury -- -6th National Conference on âControl Architecture of Robotsâ 24-25 may 2011, Grenoble area, France http://car2011.inrialpes.fr/ -19th ESUG International Smalltalk Conference 22-26 August 2011, Edinburgh, UK http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2011 On 5 mai 2011, at 07:38, sourav roy wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have just started my career in Software/IT industry and got into a project which involes enhancement/maintainance of product built in Smalltalk. > > I was never exposed to this language before and have no idea if it is used in the Industry as popularly as JAVA and .NET and looks like its a DEAD > > language for the industry. I may be wrong but i need some clarification about it. > > > I just want to know that why smalltalk is not so popular as the other OOPs Languages and what is the future prospect of > > one if he/she is into Smalltalk development. > > Looking for some positive note so that it may give me some entho for working with Smalltalk. > > Thanks&Regards, > > Sourav Roy > > > > Get Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now!

May 5, 2011