May 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Making cr to autocomplete as well as tab (in Pharo 1.3)

by Serge Stinckwich

Le 5 mai 2011 Ã 21:18, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > Thanks Igor! > I always type enter ;-) > > #Luc > +1 !!!!! > > > 2011/5/5 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > Hi, i just found inconvenient that for autocompletion i should press > tab all the time > while i tend to always hit enter, which instead of pasting suggestion, > inserts cr into text. > > So i hacked a lil piece of code to make autocompletion to insert > suggested text when you pressing either tab or cr > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Making cr to autocomplete as well as tab (in Pharo 1.3)

by Esteban Lorenzano

as a side note... most of my students (and some of the teachers, like NicolÃ¡s, he) always complains about the "tab" instead "enter" thing :) El 05/05/2011, a las 11:27a.m., Igor Stasenko escribiÃ³: > i haven't filed a ticket, because i was not sure what is the > motivation why enter cannot > serve for autocompletion as well as tab. > > On 5 May 2011 16:18, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Thanks Igor! >> I always type enter ;-) >> >> #Luc >> >> >> >> 2011/5/5 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >>> >>> Hi, i just found inconvenient that for autocompletion i should press >>> tab all the time >>> while i tend to always hit enter, which instead of pasting suggestion, >>> inserts cr into text. >>> >>> So i hacked a lil piece of code to make autocompletion to insert >>> suggested text when you pressing either tab or cr >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Making cr to autocomplete as well as tab (in Pharo 1.3)

by Igor Stasenko

i haven't filed a ticket, because i was not sure what is the motivation why enter cannot serve for autocompletion as well as tab. On 5 May 2011 16:18, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks Igor! > I always type enter ;-) > > #Luc > > > > 2011/5/5 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >> >> Hi, i just found inconvenient that for autocompletion i should press >> tab all the time >> while i tend to always hit enter, which instead of pasting suggestion, >> inserts cr into text. >> >> So i hacked a lil piece of code to make autocompletion to insert >> suggested text when you pressing either tab or cr >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Making cr to autocomplete as well as tab (in Pharo 1.3)

by Luc Fabresse

Thanks Igor! I always type enter ;-) #Luc 2011/5/5 Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > Hi, i just found inconvenient that for autocompletion i should press > tab all the time > while i tend to always hit enter, which instead of pasting suggestion, > inserts cr into text. > > So i hacked a lil piece of code to make autocompletion to insert > suggested text when you pressing either tab or cr > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Toon Verwaest

I do agree in the current setup. That's why I'm working very hard on changing this. I want Smalltalk to be completely compatible at all levels with other languages, so that we can use their libraries rather than having to rewrite them. I'm working on it. Stay tuned ;) On 05/05/2011 11:42 AM, Carlo wrote: > Hi > > While I agree with everyone's sentiments I think that practically If I ware starting my career off again I would still go into Java or .NET. > > To get a job as a Smalltalk developer is difficult simply because they are so scarce. Yes technically Smalltalk has design and philosophical merits but, for someone starting their career, a more mainstream language would be best. It is still too difficult to make Smalltalk do enterprise scale integration and there is a serious lack of libraries; something that the Java and .NET (even Ruby) world does not suffer from. i'm not saying That Smalltalk can't do these things but rather that it is more difficult to integrate with the outside world; it's ecosystem is small compared to the J2EE ecosystem. > > My advice would be to start off with Java or .NET and then when you've gained practical development experience (+-5 years) decide where you want to take your career. During this time you should be looking at other languages and practices, such as Smalltalk, software methodologies, DDD, FP etc, and learn from them to make you a better software engineer. > A career in development is so much more than simply the programming language. > > BTW I'm still regretting not taking a Smalltalk position here in South Africa when I had the chance :) Maybe I will still... > Cheers > Carlo > > On 05 May 2011, at 10:57 AM, Johan Brichau wrote: > > That is a superb response, Toon! > I could not agree more. > > Let me add to that Smalltalk is not dead. It's the stealth weapon of mass productivity used by small technology startups ;-) > > Johan > > On 05 May 2011, at 09:58, Toon Verwaest wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I can tell you that independent of how the industry might perceive the language Smalltalk, learning Smalltalk will make you personally a better software engineer. And this is what the industry does want. You will look at programming from a new angle and this will give you an edge. >> >> This is also true for learning other old languages like Scheme or Lisp. As long as you stay within your Java / .NET bubble you will be one in a billion. If you learn Smalltalk, the fact you know something that other people might not makes you more special. The only negative part of learning Smalltalk while working on other types of applications is that you will eat your shoe 95% of the time hating that Java / .NET aren't more evolved and flexible :) >> >> As it seems that you are already working on a project revolving around Smalltalk, be very happy that you are getting the opportunity to learn it; you'll come out for the better. >> >> Lastly, don't care too much about popularity within industry. If you take the time to learn the systems for yourself you will probably learn to understand the differences yourself. You are currently also part of industry and obviously don't know Smalltalk well yet; how informed was your decision to not know Smalltalk? You are part of "the industry" making other people not choose Smalltalk based on your (non-)choice of not using Smalltalk; if they would all think this way! Sheep won't change anything :) >> >> cheers, >> Toon >> >> On 05/05/2011 07:38 AM, sourav roy wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I have just started my career in Software/IT industry and got into a project which involes enhancement/maintainance of product built in Smalltalk. >>> >>> I was never exposed to this language before and have no idea if it is used in the Industry as popularly as JAVA and .NET and looks like its a DEAD >>> >>> language for the industry. I may be wrong but i need some clarification about it. >>> >>> >>> I just want to know that why smalltalk is not so popular as the other OOPs Languages and what is the future prospect of >>> >>> one if he/she is into Smalltalk development. >>> >>> Looking for some positive note so that it may give me some entho for working with Smalltalk. >>> >>> Thanks&Regards, >>> >>> Sourav Roy >>> >>> >>> >>> Get Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now! > > >

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Dave Mason

On May 5, 2011, at 06:12, sourav roy wrote: > I agree to what have you said but as i am a beginner to smalltalk i need lot of help to get a good grip over it I was talking with one of my grad students yesterday, who was in a similar boat. A big difference between Smalltalk and Java/C# (and worse, C++) is that it has a minimalist syntax. If you have been programming in those syntaxy languages, you have grown to pattern-match that syntax to give you the structure of a method. In Smalltalk, everything is a message send to some object (except assignment and return, and ignoring internal compiler optimizations) - so figuring out what is going on is a matter of following the message sends. Another big difference is that classes are objects too, so 'self' could be a class or an instance. This is a big advantage, but initially can make it harder to follow the message send trail. Pay attention to whether you're looking at a class method or an instance method. A third big difference is that the class hierarchy is much, much, richer, so messages are often sent to methods that are defined in super-classes or sub-classes of the method you're currently looking at. This is particularly true for class methods, because there isn't any inheritance of class methods in the syntaxy languages. You may find the hierarchy browser to be a good friend here. Hierarchies in the syntaxy languages are usually <=3 deep. In Smalltalk, 8-10 is not unusual. Lastly, most Smalltalk systems are image based. That means all the code is there for you to look at - you just have to find it! Because the code (the ultimate documentation :-) is there, it has meant that documentation has been seen as less important. The Pharo community has been working to address that, both in books and in internal documentation (see the COTD postings) > and moreover unlike other mainstream languages there are not much documents or professional from which i can get some guidance about it. As others have pointed out, there actually is quite a bit... just not from Amazon. > And i feel as Smalltalk is quite vast and different in structure from the other mail(with my two month experiance and i may be wrong), a beginner needs some proper guidance to get his hands over smalltalk. So, i just request you to kindly guide me to how should i get into smalltalk. Hope this helps. As others have said, Smalltalk is worth it - it will make you a better programmer. As will several other languages, most of which you'll find discussed on the lambda-the-ultimate.org blog. ../Dave

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by Toon Verwaest

> I rather believe it will be Smalltalk. After all, consider how > different each step of ST-72 to ST-80 was from each other, yet they > were all still Smalltalk. > What -IS- Smalltalk? {insert a whole philosophical discourse here}

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Toon Verwaest

On 05/05/2011 12:12 PM, sourav roy wrote: > > Hi Toon, > > I agree to what have you said but as i am a beginner to smalltalk i > need lot of help to get a good grip over it and moreover unlike other > mainstream languages there are not much documents or professional from > which i can get some guidance about it. And i feel as Smalltalk is > quite vast and different in structure from the other mail(with my two > month experiance and i may be wrong), a beginner needs some proper > guidance to get his hands over smalltalk. So, i just request you to > kindly guide me to how should i get into smalltalk. > > Thanks&Regards, > > Sourav > In addition to the links that were sent to you, this mailing list is a good access point to get the information you might need. I don't know where you are based exactly, but you might be able to find people in your neighborhood that can help you out. If you live close to Bern, CH; you are always welcome to pass by my office and I can give you a tutoring session when you are stuck ;) Or you can just follow the Smalltalk course at our university. I'm pretty sure other people are open to helping you as well. cheers, Toon

May 5, 2011

[Pharo-project] Making cr to autocomplete as well as tab (in Pharo 1.3)

by Igor Stasenko

Hi, i just found inconvenient that for autocompletion i should press tab all the time while i tend to always hit enter, which instead of pasting suggestion, inserts cr into text. So i hacked a lil piece of code to make autocompletion to insert suggested text when you pressing either tab or cr -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

May 5, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by Douglas Brebner

On 05/05/2011 12:45, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > Now for pharo we have a vision: > We want a system to invent the next one and that people can make a living with it. > - bootstrappable > - clean lean robust > - (ideally) good interface with C > - (ideally) a lovely fast readable documentd extensible VM > - good infrastructure > - meta model for code > - browser for remote/crosscompilation/default browsing > - new compiler > - first class instance variable > - new network layer > - new graphics > - new module system > > At the end it may not be Smalltalk but it will be the same spirit. I think that we are slowly getting to the point > where we will start to invent new things instead of just removing old experiences. > I rather believe it will be Smalltalk. After all, consider how different each step of ST-72 to ST-80 was from each other, yet they were all still Smalltalk.

May 5, 2011