May 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Preferred way of removing slice from Inbox

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On May 6, 2011, at 12:23 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:22 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On May 5, 2011, at 9:00 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Once a SLICE is integrated in PharoCore, how do you remove it from PharoInbox ? > > via boring click click click squeaksource interface > > > mmmmmm shouldn't we be able to create a simple Gofer script that do that? yes this could be a good idea. Stef > > lukas? > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

May 6, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Nile tests red - Pharo 1.3

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 12:44 AM, Alain rastoul <Alr.dev(a)free.fr> wrote: > Nice vision. I want it now :) > I think smalltalk is the best choice for that - you know better than me of > course > However to make a living with it, it has to interface with other IT systems > and standards, so that developers can make an sell a part of the system. > Pharo has seaside-web on one end but may be something is missing with > relational databases. They are today the heart of business information > systems (I have to try dbx and glorp , This is why ESUG has sponsored several times DBX. There are a couple of other alternatives to DBX. There is a native (written in squeak/pharo) driver for PostgreSQL and MySQL. In addition, there are another wrappers (delegating to C via FFI) to Sqlite and ODBC. And frameworks on top you have a couple...Glorp, SandstonDB, SqueakSave, ROE, etc... Here are a list: http://www.seaside.st/documentation/persistence odbc is not usable because of locks) > This is the biggest problem. With dbx we "more or less" fix it. Basically, most of the database client libraries can work asynchronous. OpenDBX also. So....from the image side, we invoke a function of OpenDBX, and OpenDBX answer us whether it is ready or not. Then, if it is not ready, we do a little wait in the image so that to let the process to another guy. And then we retry....until it is finished. It is not the best, but at least it doesn't lock the whole VM for a long time. DBXTalk has been used in several production apps and we didn't have a problem so far with this. Anyway, Cog now is almost to support multithreaded FFI, where there is no lock :) > Side note, I often wondered myself why object databases didn't catch? > Technical issues? Marketing?Ã§ > For me Marketing, just as Smalltalk (in addition to prices). > > Btw, pharo has taken a good direction. Nice work. I'll try and see if I can > help in this field (databases) which is one of my skill > > You can help with DBXTalk team is you wish ;) > Cheers > Alain > > -- > Alain_rastoul > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

May 6, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] ODBC Connection in Pharo 1.1.1

by Alain rastoul

Hi , Googling fof configurationOfODBC will give you the Gofer script to install the odbc packahe in your image. You will find examples on thz squeak wiki (answered from my phone I can't send examples). It's pretty straightforward and works well on pharo 1.1.1, 1.2 and 1.3. Check also the squeakdbx page Cheers -- Alain_rastoul

May 6, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] ODBC Connection in Pharo 1.1.1

by Serge Stinckwich

Hi Sourav, I think you need also to connect to Indian Smalltalkers. There are some at Bengalore. I hope to visit them some day soon. Have a look at the indian Smalltalk mailing-list here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/smalltalkindia/ You could also contact Skrish (in CC). Regards, On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 2:05 PM, sourav roy <sourav_pharo(a)in.com> wrote: > > Hi All, > > Can any one explain me how to establish an ODBC connection in > Pharo-Smalltalk and Database programming (Any document or explanation). > > Thanks&Regards > > Sourav | Bangalore | India > > Dear pharo-project ! Get Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now! > > Dear pharo-project ! Get Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now! -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

May 6, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] ODBC Connection in Pharo 1.1.1

by Markus Fritsche

Hello Sourav, SqueakDBX (http://squeakdbx.org/) has an odbc backend. There was a dedicated ODBC package for squeak once, but I think that has been deprecated. SqueakDBX (soon to be renamed) is actively maintained and supported. Regards, Markus 2011/5/6 sourav roy <sourav_pharo(a)in.com>: > > Hi All, > > Can any one explain me how to establish an ODBC connection in > Pharo-Smalltalk and Database programming (Any document or explanation). > > Thanks&Regards > > Sourav | Bangalore | India > > Dear pharo-project ! Get Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now! > > Dear pharo-project ! Get Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now!

May 6, 2011

[Pharo-project] ODBC Connection in Pharo 1.1.1

by sourav roy

Hi All, Can any one explain me how to establish an ODBC connection in PharoSmalltalk and Database programming (Any document or explanation). Thanks&Regards Sourav | Bangalore | India Dear pharoproject ! Get Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now!Dear pharoproject ! Get Yourself a cool, short @in.com Email ID now!

May 6, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Jimmie Houchin

On 5/5/2011 8:19 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 6 May 2011 01:03, Jimmie Houchin<jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 5/5/2011 4:25 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >> On 5 May 2011 21:39, Jimmie Houchin<jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On 5/5/2011 12:21 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >> On 5 May 2011 18:57, Jimmie Houchin<jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> [Big Snip] >> >> Well said. >> Except that i'm not sharing your view that its hard to interface with >> foreign libraries. >> Its not hard at all. Of course to connect two different worlds, you >> need to have knowledge >> in both of them. But this requirement not a bit different when you >> take any other pair of languages and try to >> connect them. >> >> Thanks, >> >> I have no knowledge of either the knowledge or the challenges involved in >> using external libraries in Pharo or Squeak. I have no knowledge of >> FFI/Alien or using C/C++/C# or compilers. > So, read about it. It doesn't bites. :) Yes, I know. But like many, my time is limited. I program my app in my spare time. I have a full-time+ job and a very large family who want some of my time. >> As I said, I am totally unaware of the limitations of the system, but that >> it did what I need, and would have liked to do that from Pharo/Squeak. I >> know Dolphin has/had certain capabilities. But I don't prefer to use >> non-open source software if at all possible for development. I also am very >> preferential towards cross-platform software. Dolphin fails on all accounts. >> I would choose my Python/Pharo blend over Dolphin any day. I know it >> introduces some pain, but I am willing to accept the pain. I like tools that >> allow me to use them where ever I am and whatever I am doing. >> >> However, that said, when I look at the facilities Python offers for such >> capabilities it on appearances looks quite impressive. >> >> http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html >> >> """ >> ctypes is a foreign function library for Python. It provides C compatible >> data types, and allows calling functions in DLLs or shared libraries. It can >> be used to wrap these libraries in pure Python. >> >> 15.18.1.1. Loading dynamic link libraries >> >> ctypes exports the cdll, and on Windows windll and oledll objects, for >> loading dynamic link libraries. >> >> You load libraries by accessing them as attributes of these objects. cdll >> loads libraries which export functions using the standard cdecl calling >> convention, while windll libraries call functions using the stdcall calling >> convention. oledll also uses the stdcall calling convention, and assumes the >> functions return a Windows HRESULT error code. The error code is used to >> automatically raise a WindowsError exception when the function call fails. >> >> Here are some examples for Windows. Note that msvcrt is the MS standard C >> library containing most standard C functions, and uses the cdecl calling >> convention: >>>>> from ctypes import * >>>>> print windll.kernel32 # doctest: +WINDOWS >> <WinDLL 'kernel32', handle ... at ...> >>>>> print cdll.msvcrt # doctest: +WINDOWS >> <CDLL 'msvcrt', handle ... at ...> >>>>> libc = cdll.msvcrt # doctest: +WINDOWS > So? Why do you think that you cannot do the same in Pharo? > Have you digested what is available before doing it in Python? I never said it couldn't be done in Pharo or Squeak. What I said is that I lack the skills to do so in Pharo. It isn't a two lines of code an your off and running. Which is what Python provided me. Ok, in total, my Python code is more like 500 lines. It interfaces the COM DLL and serves the data to my Pharo app which provides all of my business logic. The Python app is simply an interface and gateway. No business logic. >> """ >> It has examples for windows and linux. > I feel that you are seriously under-informed. > Just try googling for: > > Squeak + FFI > Alien > > NativeBoost > > and just check what you can do using it: > > http://www.squeaksource.com/NBOpenGL/ > > also check mail archives. > > Forgive me, but i really can't understand , why you can't just look > for what you need by yourself? > Are google.com banned by your ISP? > > For me this subject is interested in aspect, why this information > (while being available openly) didn't catch your > attention , so you using python instead. > (Okay, you might miss some functionality like being able to > automatically generate bindings to COM interfaces). > But again, i am sure that if you surf the net or ask right questions > on mailing list, you will probably discover that > there is already work being done in that direction. > And at last, if you feel that there is missing some key functionality > which you want, and you expect that it is also > could be useful to community, you can always implement it and share > with people (instead of using Python ;). > So, next who will come after you won't find himself in a desert with > couple of oasises few hundred miles away. Oh, I've Googled and searched and read the mailing lists. I've had off-list conversations with people who have used Alien/FFI about what I need. It is presently beyond my current skill and knowledge and time to acquire said knowledge. I am not saying it isn't doable. I am saying at the moment it isn't anything I have the time to pursue. I already have in place a working solution. It isn't as nice as I would like, or an all Pharo solution. But it is working. The current working solution is simply version 1.0 of my application. When it is up and running and I have further time I will explore other options. Ok, as far mentioning this before here I go. :) My messages squeak-dev 11/17/2009 1:23 PM Re: My own Squeak direction Presently I am writing an app that I would love to do in Squeak but cannot. Why Squeak? Simply because I love working within a live environment. I love the tools available for writing the code. I love being able to fix a problem live and continue on. Not starting all over. But I am constrained. I am provided two options for my application. 1. Interface with a Windows COM library. 2. Interface with Java libraries. ____________ squeak-dev 6/20/2010 11:52 PM Re: Interesting survey about smalltalk I would love to be using Squeak for my financial application. Numerical performance isn't currently what is stopping me. My problem is that I require interfacing with a Windows COM dll and in a future version with a Java library. Hopefully at some point I will be able to port to Squeak. I would much prefer it to using Python, which is what I am currently using. ____________ pharo-devel 9/29/2010 8:54 AM Re: Calling Python from Pharo I have been much in the same situation. I am developing a financial technical analysis application in Pharo. Part of my requirements are the use of a Windows COM dll. I do not have the ability to use that dll from within Pharo. (My skills are too limited) I have written the front end/back end of my application in Python interfacing the dll and the financial server. I am writing the middle part of the application in Pharo using Seaside. My Python app will call my Seaside app with the necessary data and my Seaside app will provide the Python app the necessary actions. This also enables me to provide a web interface to my application. ___________ 12/31/2010 4:24 PM And for complete disclosure. My plans for my app version 2.0 which eliminate interfacing any external library but rather accessing a different protocol via http. Proper Smalltalk lots of classes I am porting the FIX protocol to Squeak/Pharo. http://www.fixprotocol.org/ ... I haven't been silent (dating back to Nov. 2009), and I have done some due diligence. My decisions weren't made out of ignorance of what options are available, but rather my ignorance and ability to use some of the options. I am interested in writing my application. Not down and dirty interfacing of external libraries. That isn't where my knowledge or skill lies. It isn't where I want to spend my time. Which is why I commented about the Python library which allowed me to interface a COM DLL in two lines. The ctypes library I referred to above, I chose not to use because it wasn't as easy as the already working solution I had. The Python library generated As I stated, I am not a professional programmer. I have no computer science background. I have no C/C++/C# skills. The more time I spend doing low level stuff or learning how to do so, the less time I have to spend on what my app is intended to do, the business logic. My goal is more along the lines of getting my business up and running and hiring knowledgeable people like you to do the things that enable people like me. I find Smalltalk enabling for the guy with an idea. Its the most enabling and empowering tool I've found for my ideas. I would like to see it improve in its enabling ability. I get excited about executing my ideas. If I had no options but to learn Alien/FFI or ctypes, or C/C++/C#/F3, in order to build my application. I would. But it would delay me considerably. I have more ideas, than time. I would like to see Pharo's story for interfacing external libraries to be better than Pythons. It would be very enabling for those of us with less skills, and less time for those who have the skills. Thanks. Jimmie

May 6, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by laurent laffont

On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 3:19 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 6 May 2011 01:03, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 5/5/2011 4:25 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > > On 5 May 2011 21:39, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 5/5/2011 12:21 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > > > On 5 May 2011 18:57, Jimmie Houchin<jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > [Big Snip] > > > > Well said. > > Except that i'm not sharing your view that its hard to interface with > > foreign libraries. > > Its not hard at all. Of course to connect two different worlds, you > > need to have knowledge > > in both of them. But this requirement not a bit different when you > > take any other pair of languages and try to > > connect them. > > > > Thanks, > > > > I have no knowledge of either the knowledge or the challenges involved in > > using external libraries in Pharo or Squeak. I have no knowledge of > > FFI/Alien or using C/C++/C# or compilers. > > > > So, read about it. It doesn't bites. :) > > > As I said, I am totally unaware of the limitations of the system, but > that > > it did what I need, and would have liked to do that from Pharo/Squeak. I > > know Dolphin has/had certain capabilities. But I don't prefer to use > > non-open source software if at all possible for development. I also am > very > > preferential towards cross-platform software. Dolphin fails on all > accounts. > > I would choose my Python/Pharo blend over Dolphin any day. I know it > > introduces some pain, but I am willing to accept the pain. I like tools > that > > allow me to use them where ever I am and whatever I am doing. > > > > However, that said, when I look at the facilities Python offers for such > > capabilities it on appearances looks quite impressive. > > > > http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html > > > > """ > > ctypes is a foreign function library for Python. It provides C compatible > > data types, and allows calling functions in DLLs or shared libraries. It > can > > be used to wrap these libraries in pure Python. > > > > 15.18.1.1. Loading dynamic link libraries > > > > ctypes exports the cdll, and on Windows windll and oledll objects, for > > loading dynamic link libraries. > > > > You load libraries by accessing them as attributes of these objects. cdll > > loads libraries which export functions using the standard cdecl calling > > convention, while windll libraries call functions using the stdcall > calling > > convention. oledll also uses the stdcall calling convention, and assumes > the > > functions return a Windows HRESULT error code. The error code is used to > > automatically raise a WindowsError exception when the function call > fails. > > > > Here are some examples for Windows. Note that msvcrt is the MS standard C > > library containing most standard C functions, and uses the cdecl calling > > convention: > > > >>>> from ctypes import * > >>>> print windll.kernel32 # doctest: +WINDOWS > > <WinDLL 'kernel32', handle ... at ...> > >>>> print cdll.msvcrt # doctest: +WINDOWS > > <CDLL 'msvcrt', handle ... at ...> > >>>> libc = cdll.msvcrt # doctest: +WINDOWS > >>> > > > > So? Why do you think that you cannot do the same in Pharo? > Have you digested what is available before doing it in Python? > > > > """ > > > > It has examples for windows and linux. > > > > I feel that you are seriously under-informed. > Just try googling for: > > Squeak + FFI > Alien > > NativeBoost > > and just check what you can do using it: > > http://www.squeaksource.com/NBOpenGL/ > > also check mail archives. > > Forgive me, but i really can't understand , why you can't just look > for what you need by yourself? > Are google.com banned by your ISP? > > For me this subject is interested in aspect, why this information > (while being available openly) didn't catch your > attention , so you using python instead. > (Okay, you might miss some functionality like being able to > automatically generate bindings to COM interfaces). > But again, i am sure that if you surf the net or ask right questions > on mailing list, you will probably discover that > there is already work being done in that direction. > Indeed, one thing FFI / Alien / NB don't have is a documentation as nice as http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html in http://book.pharo-project.org/ FFI / Alien / NB may be powerful, it seems I've never managed to do what I want, even with all mailing lists support (search mails on yaz / z3950 or id3taglib). In Python it works on OSX out of the box (I've just tried :) But when I was working with Python and Ruby several years ago things was easy (for my needs), I think because of documentation. Laurent And at last, if you feel that there is missing some key functionality > which you want, and you expect that it is also > could be useful to community, you can always implement it and share > with people (instead of using Python ;). > So, next who will come after you won't find himself in a desert with > couple of oasises few hundred miles away. > > > I didn't read it all as I am unqualified to assess its capabilities or > > limitations, nor do I presently need it as the win32 extensions do easily > > and well what I presently need to do. > > > > Hopefully it can inform us as to what is expected and doable in > alternative > > languages which are dynamic like Smalltalk. > > > > Jimmie > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > >

May 6, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Making cr to autocomplete as well as tab (in Pharo 1.3)

by Jimmie Houchin

On 5/5/2011 11:00 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > This is not great at all. Please read this before going forward. > > We had this in OCompletion before and then it got changed to not use CR for a reason. The problem is when using fluent APIs that are best read when written on multiple lines. For example, suppose that I want to type something like this in Glamour: > > ... > a tree > display: [ ... ] > > After typing "a tree", the first proposed item is "treeLayout" (see the attached picture). If I press enter to go to the next line "tree" is replaced with "treeLayout" and this is not the behavior I want. > > The problem is that CR has a useful meaning when typing a piece of text and this makes it not good as a completion character. Tab on the other hand, is only used in Smalltalk at the beginning of an empty line so there is no danger of overloading its functionality in the middle of a text. > > > Now, if you insist, I still believe there is a place for CR. Completion has two modes: > 1. one in which I write and the completion offers me something, and > 2. one in which I am after I press the down arrow to select some completion item. > > For 1. you do not want to have CR as a completion character. For 2. it is probably ok because you enter explicitly in a temporary mode and thus you are not typing anymore and this will not induce the conflict. > > Cheers, > Doru Hello, As I stated in my reply I like the idea of using CR. But you do raise a valid point and demonstrate a valid situation. My question is... Why isn't OCompletion offering the shortest options first? If it did so, then your situation wouldn't occur. tree would be selected before treeLayout. Is it reasonable to have OCompletion sort the list which is being presented alphabetically or alphabetically within the whatever the preferred priority is? ie: alphabetically within a list of the most recently selected items. It would offer the shortest items first and complete to their end if unique, and when you want more you provide more characters or navigate to the desired item. Always completing to the first alphabetical unique qualified item. Just a few thoughts that if reasonable and doable could make everybody happy. Thanks. Jimmie

May 6, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Igor Stasenko

On 6 May 2011 01:03, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 5/5/2011 4:25 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > On 5 May 2011 21:39, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 5/5/2011 12:21 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > On 5 May 2011 18:57, Jimmie Houchin<jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> Â wrote: > > [Big Snip] > > Well said. > Except that i'm not sharing your view that its hard to interface with > foreign libraries. > Its not hard at all. Of course to connect two different worlds, you > need to have knowledge > in both of them. But this requirement not a bit different when you > take any other pair of languages and try to > connect them. > > Thanks, > > I have no knowledge of either the knowledge or the challenges involved in > using external libraries in Pharo or Squeak. I have no knowledge of > FFI/Alien or using C/C++/C# or compilers. > So, read about it. It doesn't bites. :) > As I said, I am totally unaware of the limitations of the system, but that > it did what I need, and would have liked to do that from Pharo/Squeak. I > know Dolphin has/had certain capabilities. But I don't prefer to use > non-open source software if at all possible for development. I also am very > preferential towards cross-platform software. Dolphin fails on all accounts. > I would choose my Python/Pharo blend over Dolphin any day. I know it > introduces some pain, but I am willing to accept the pain. I like tools that > allow me to use them where ever I am and whatever I am doing. > > However, that said, when I look at the facilities Python offers for such > capabilities it on appearances looks quite impressive. > > http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html > > """ > ctypes is a foreign function library for Python. It provides C compatible > data types, and allows calling functions in DLLs or shared libraries. It can > be used to wrap these libraries in pure Python. > > 15.18.1.1. Loading dynamic link libraries > > ctypes exports the cdll, and on Windows windll and oledll objects, for > loading dynamic link libraries. > > You load libraries by accessing them as attributes of these objects. cdll > loads libraries which export functions using the standard cdecl calling > convention, while windll libraries call functions using the stdcall calling > convention. oledll also uses the stdcall calling convention, and assumes the > functions return a Windows HRESULT error code. The error code is used to > automatically raise a WindowsError exception when the function call fails. > > Here are some examples for Windows. Note that msvcrt is the MS standard C > library containing most standard C functions, and uses the cdecl calling > convention: > >>>> from ctypes import * >>>> print windll.kernel32 # doctest: +WINDOWS > <WinDLL 'kernel32', handle ... at ...> >>>> print cdll.msvcrt # doctest: +WINDOWS > <CDLL 'msvcrt', handle ... at ...> >>>> libc = cdll.msvcrt # doctest: +WINDOWS >>> > So? Why do you think that you cannot do the same in Pharo? Have you digested what is available before doing it in Python? > """ > > It has examples for windows and linux. > I feel that you are seriously under-informed. Just try googling for: Squeak + FFI Alien NativeBoost and just check what you can do using it: http://www.squeaksource.com/NBOpenGL/ also check mail archives. Forgive me, but i really can't understand , why you can't just look for what you need by yourself? Are google.com banned by your ISP? For me this subject is interested in aspect, why this information (while being available openly) didn't catch your attention , so you using python instead. (Okay, you might miss some functionality like being able to automatically generate bindings to COM interfaces). But again, i am sure that if you surf the net or ask right questions on mailing list, you will probably discover that there is already work being done in that direction. And at last, if you feel that there is missing some key functionality which you want, and you expect that it is also could be useful to community, you can always implement it and share with people (instead of using Python ;). So, next who will come after you won't find himself in a desert with couple of oasises few hundred miles away. > I didn't read it all as I am unqualified to assess its capabilities or > limitations, nor do I presently need it as the win32 extensions do easily > and well what I presently need to do. > > Hopefully it can inform us as to what is expected and doable in alternative > languages which are dynamic like Smalltalk. > > Jimmie > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

May 6, 2011