May 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] new Cog VMs uploaded

by Philippe Marschall

On 03.05.2011 23:40, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Philippe Marschall <kustos(a)gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net>> wrote: > > On 03.05.2011 19:51, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 4:38 AM, Philippe Marschall > <kustos(a)gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net> > > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net>>> wrote: > > > > On 29.04.2011 19:03, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Philippe Marschall > > <kustos(a)gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net> > > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net>> > > > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net> > > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net > <mailto:kustos@gmx.net>>>> wrote: > > > > > > On 27.04.2011 19 <tel:27.04.2011%2019> <tel:27.04.2011%2019> > > <tel:27.04.2011%2019>:23, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > > Philippe, > > > > > > > > can you please profile before and after? This could > > very well > > > be to > > > > do with the additional cost of shallowCopy for > contexts, but > > it is > > > > inevitable that a correct implementation is going to > be more > > expensive > > > > than the simple block-copy. The new implementation can be > > optimized, > > > > but we need to profile first to be sure we're tilting > at the > > relevant > > > > windmill. > > > > > > > > > What kind of profiling do you have in mind, MessageTally? > > > > > > > > > Yes, that would be fine. Thanks! > > > > OK, there you go. As you'll see the runtime is about the same, > that's > > because we do more iterations in the same time. Also note the > time we're > > spending in WriteStream >> #nextPutAll: with interestingly has a > > different growing behavior than WriteStream >> #nextPut: (only > 25% vs > > 100%). I already raised the issue once but people argued that the > > current code is prefect. > > > > > > Hmmm. GC behaviour is very different. Also requestContext Also shows > > up in the 2382 profiles but not the 2370 traces. You'll need to dig a > > little deeper to account for these differences. I guess they > could well > > be to do with the new (correct) MethodContext copying behaviour > > retaining more state and hence stressing the GC more. > > What approach do you suggest should I take? > > > I have no idea. You could try and break down the various activities and > benchmark them separately I suppose. You could look at the profiles > you're already generating in higher resolution to see where the time is > going. You could also try and extract the SystemProfiler from OpenQwaq, > which will run on Cog, and is better than MessageTally. Andreas wrote > it to get around some of MessageTally's limitations. It should > hopefully show primitives quite accurately. Ok, here we go. Cheers Philippe

May 8, 2011

[Pharo-project] [ANN] SystemProfiler for Pharo

by Philippe Marschall

Hi I ported SystemProfiler from OpenQwaq to Pharo [1]. It's supposed to be better than MessageTally, not share some of it's limitations and show primites quite accurately. It requires Cog. Please note that this software is GPLv2. I left the class category as Qwaq, I hope this is fine with everybody. [1] http://www.squeaksource.com/SystemProfilerPharo.html Cheers Philippe

May 8, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] PBE in HTML [was: Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry]

by Hilaire Fernandes

Ah right, htlatex seems to be doing just fine. Lot of warning but it get through the all file. Hilaire Le 06/05/2011 18:51, laurent laffont a Ã©crit : > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 5:30 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > <mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>> wrote: > > I installed pdf to html but I could not make it run :( > > > htlatex seems OK, we can start with this. Need to supply a nice CSS > though. I will try to find some time to play with (help always welcome :) > > Laurent. > > > > On May 6, 2011, at 2:05 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:56 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > <mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>> wrote: > > Ok if some good souls want to give a try to generate html. > > > > > > On OSX with MacTex-2010 installed, I've tried > > > > git clone --depth 1 > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoByExample-english.git > > cd PharoByExample-english/ > > htlatex PBE1.tex "html,2" > > > > Then open PBE1.html , one page per chapter. > > > > See http://www.tug.org/applications/tex4ht/mn-commands.html > > > > Laurent. > > > > > > > > > > Stef > > > > > > > > > Probably we should find a way to generate HTML from PDF or Latex. > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > I've used latex2html several years ago. > > > > > > +1 for html > > > > > > Laurent. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Now for the documentation when did you send an help > documentation for any part of the system? > > > >>>> Or a bug fix? > > > >>>> I find quite funny that people always talk but few are > doing. We welcome comments/examples help. > > > >>> No need to get into a cat-fight here :) > > > >> > > > >> No this is not my point. But what do people really do to help? > > > >> > > > >>> I do agree with Stefan, as well as with you that we could > help; but I'm unaware of a good documentation effort outside of the > image to start with. Camillo's website project might be the best > effort I've seen until now; but then I didn't really look either. > Maybe I missed some great website? > > > >> > > > >> If this is just to spit out class comment on html I do not > call that a documentation. > > > >> Now we can take the book contents and generate html > > > >> We have 350 pages in the first book and the same in the > second one. > > > >> People are free to join and write one or two chapters. > > > > > > > > StÃ©phane, > > > > > > > > Of course you are right: wining/complaining doesn't help, only > action does. We need more people like Laurent focusing on documentation. > > > > > > > > I for one think that the well written, high quality books that > exist (PBE, Seaside Book) are *very valuable*, much better than > confusing wiki site (although these have their place as well). > > > > > > > > But the other point is: in most other popular languages, what > current, young developers do, when they get an error that they don't > understand is copy/paste the literal text in Google and in a > surprisingly large number of cases you find some real answers in the > first page. > > > > > > > > This is also related to popularity of course. > > > > > > > > Sven > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire

May 8, 2011

[Pharo-project] html doc

by Hilaire Fernandes

I gave a try with Hevea to compile PBE book in HTML It gave many errors, I try to fix a few but there are many. It will require rewriting a lot of the PBE macros with ifelse{latex}{html} directives. This is what I did for the drgeo doc (http://documentation.ofset.org/drgeo2/fr) Does someone try with latex2html? Hilaire -- Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire

May 8, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

On 07. 05. 2011 13:37, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 7 May 2011 07:25, Michael Haupt <mhaupt(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> And do not forget the most important thing: people must be educated to >> program for parallelism. The computing power is there to be exploited, but >> programmers need to know how to exploit it. You can't rely on the compiler >> or VM alone. > That's the main problem, IMO. Most smalltalkers i met (oh.. why.. not > just smalltalkers), > fear parallelism like fire. Refer to it as something too complex they > can't understand. > And i think that's why "Parallelism to masses" approach is largely > failing , not just in smalltalk, > but in whole software industry. Web frameworks are ones who would benefit from multicore Smalltalk instantly and without exposing concurrent programing complexities to web app developers. All paralell programing/execution complexity can be nicely encapsulated/hidden in web framework itself. And actually is now already, because we need to handle parallel web requests all the time. Best regards Janko -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

May 8, 2011

[Pharo-project] Fwd: job opportunity

by Dale Henrichs

In case you didn't see the announcement on the Squeak-def list ... Begin forwarded message: From: Prof David West <profwest(a)fastmail.fm<mailto:profwest@fastmail.fm>> Date: May 7, 2011 7:45:39 AM PDT To: "squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org<mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>" <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org<mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>> Subject: [squeak-dev] job opportunity Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org<mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>> My apologies for the short lead time, but I need a person that is very conversant with Squeak-Seaside-Pharo-Pier-GLASS plus an interest and ability to quickly learn and mentor others in web-mobile languages and tools. Will be working with English speakers, so facility in that language is essential. The person must be able to be in New Mexico, US, from May 23 to July 29. You will be working 6-8 hours a day, Monday through Thursday - teaching, mentoring, developing projects (list below) and overseeing my software Studio when I am in London Jun 4-19. Compensation: Approximately $10K USD plus health benefits for the two-months. If you like the work and are good at it, the position can be converted to a one-year, renewable annually, as a visiting professor (at least a Masters degree is required). The annual salary will be approximated $60K USD plus benefits. An ownership interest in the products being developed is also available - as a supplement to the academic salary. Applications we will be working on, priority order -- technology: 1) iPad app for the Bradbury Museum at Los Alamos National Labs -- XCode - cocoa based framework 2) an outcomes assessment app for Highlands University -- Web ecology (HTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL, Javascript) 3) itsYourRep - an achievement profile / portfolio Web App - very similar to #2 -- GLASS 4) confirmOwnership - for paying client, tracks ownership interests in investments, etc. -- Seaside or GLASS 5) ambientAgile -- an app using cameras and projectors to create a distributed 'agile wall' -- not sure, start with Squeak-Seaside 6) Web-based subset of Behavior! Seaside or GLASS 7) Infrastructure for Software Design Studios - content management plus Web presence - Seaside / Pier / GLASS I must find a person very quickly, so if you are interested, please email me and we can arrange a phone call to discuss the opportunity. David West New Mexico Highlands University dmwest(a)nmhu.edu<mailto:dmwest@nmhu.edu> profwest(a)fastmail.fm 01-505-231-7233

May 8, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Stefan Marr

On 07 May 2011, at 16:33, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 7 May 2011 10:41, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Too bad. The eclipse license is not for us. >> > I'm not a lawyer, but reading it, it looks like this license are > compatible with MIT. My understanding is that the EPL requires 'derived work' to be EPL licensed. While the EPL has much clearer definition of derived work than the GPL, it is still not as free as the MIT license. (Derived work explicitly excludes software modules build on top, so that it is clear that your business code can stay closed source. That definition is missing in the GPL as far as I understand.) But I can't change that. The IBM lawyers insist on EPL. Anyway, the RoarVM will never be as performant as the CogVM, so, the only reasonable approach is to steal the ideas and bring them to Cog. Most ideas are described in papers already. And some missing details are hopefully published soon... -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

May 7, 2011

[Pharo-project] Additional Test for Shared Queue (s)

by pharo-project-owner＠lists.gforge.inria.fr

While trying to track down a bug, I started thinking that there was a problem with SharedQueue. There isn't, but there were no tests that convinced me of that. So I wrote one that actually has two processes reading and writing many times to a Q. The same tests works for NSSharedQueue (except that the class under test is hard coded). I suggest that putting these tests in the appropriate packages/core would be a good idea. Tests attached.

May 7, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Popularity of Smalltalk in Software Industry

by Toon Verwaest

On 05/07/2011 07:27 PM, Michael Haupt wrote: > Toon, > > Am 07.05.2011 um 16:56 schrieb Toon Verwaest<toon.verwaest(a)gmail.com>: >>> I do agree that we could do something in this regard. But given that >>> we could "do something" almost everywhere, it is hard to say if this >>> topic should take priority. Currently my plate is full. So, its not >>> about that there are someone says "no we don't want it ", >>> its mainly about lack of resources. >> And in addition, the whole OOPSLA world is working on it already so ... why bother ;P > oh. I had not known the OOPSLA community was devoting so much time to improvements in certain Smalltalk implementations. ;-) Point well taken. I wasn't talking about Smalltalk of course :) > Best, > > Michael

May 7, 2011

[Pharo-project] How to load Nautilus?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

I took the latest PharoCore 1.3 and evaluated: Gofer new squeaksource: 'Nautilus'; package: 'ConfigurationOfNautilus'; load. ConfigurationOfNautilus project lastVersion load But it says This package depends on the following classes: SystemAnnouncer You must resolve these dependencies before you will be able to load these definitions: GroupAnnouncer Select Proceed to continue, or close this window to cancel the operation. Then after in the load, I have a DNU in MCWorkingCopy >> modified: aBooleanm, because MonticelloAnnouncer is nil (not defined) So....how I am supposed to load Nautilus? And if I want the integration with Refactoring Browser, OCompletion, Shout, etc, what should I do? load those packages and magically Nautilus will work ? What happens if I load Nautilus in a dev image? Thanks -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

May 7, 2011