April 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Better debugging...

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Alexandre: have you ever look to http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/blog?dialog=smalltak-meets-dtrace ? He has integrated DTrace into the SqueakVM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTrace Maybe it is of help... Cheers mariano On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:31 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>wrote: > > I understand. But no matter the UI / environment / frontend , you will > need first the "backend" (call it as you want). > > Yeah, we need an implementation :-) > Your work is indeed important. I foresee nice discussions at esug. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > > > > > > > "What is the exact difference of execution if I slightly change a > method?" > > > "If I call #foo it works, if I call #foo2 it does not work. Why? What > are the objects that appears with #foo2 that do not appear with #foo?" > > > All these questions are essential in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > Code profiler and code debugger are pretty poor. I can continue with > test code coverage tools. > > > After all, Computer Science is a pretty young science. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Alexandre > > > > > > > > > > > > On 25 Apr 2011, at 07:34, Craig Latta wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alexandre-- > > > > > > > >> Debugging, as well as profiling, is a topic that everybody got it > > > >> wrong. We still debug an application in oo in the same way that > > > >> people debugged their C program: thinking in term of call stack and > > > >> stack frame instead of objects. > > > > > > > > So tell us more! :) How do you express causality? > > > > > > > > > > > > -C > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Craig Latta > > > > www.netjam.org/resume > > > > +31 06 2757 7177 > > > > + 1 415 287 3547 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mariano > > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Metacello] Which packages should we include of metacello for Pharo 1.3?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> wrote: > On 04/24/2011 12:03 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com >> <mailto:dhenrich@vmware.com>> wrote: >> >> Mariano, >> >> (excluding the OB-Metallo menu items) ... >> >> >> hi dale. What does it mean exactly? If right now I am loading : >> #('Metacello-Core' 'Tutorial' 'UI' 'Metacello-ProfStef' >> 'Metacello-Help'); and #('Tests') >> you mean I should remove the group 'UI' ? >> > > Yes ... I don't know if anyone beyond me ever used them and eventually they > will be replaced by the MetacelloBrowser ... if you think folks were using > the Metacello menus, then leave them in .... > > I never heard anyone using Metacello-OB so I think we can remove them. However, if they are working, we can just let them in case someone still use them, and when MetacelloBrowser comes in, we remove Metacello-OB. Do you know more or less if Metacello-OB is working or no? is anyone using Metacello-OB? speak up now! :) Thanks -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] removing versions from configurations

by Tudor Girba

Hi Stef, On 25 Apr 2011, at 18:50, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Indeed but loading default could have destroyed your image. > So RPackage should not be managed with default. I do not understand. The continuous integration server is there to check these issues. The correspondent would be to load now the current baseline. If that breaks, it breaks and people look at it. Moose is now developed on multiple fronts and serves multiple interests that are not necessarily synchronized. So, we want to depend on latest things because this ensures communication and puts more pressure on synchronizing issues. This is why we want to play with the latest Pharo (hopefully, we will the development to it next week). Every time we depend on something fixed, we introduce the difficulty of migrating to the next version. > Now for stable I'm not sure that I set it up well so watch out. The tests say that for the use of Moose, RPackage works Ok. Cheers, Doru > Stef > > On Apr 25, 2011, at 12:51 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> The Moose build broke because the 'default' version was removed from ConfigurationOfRPackage. >> >> I fixed it now by using #stable, but that is not the issue. >> >> I understand the need for cleaning, but we should be aware that removing versions from configurations can have far reaching ripple effects. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar." >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Don't give to get. Just give."

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Better debugging...

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>wrote: > > Same thing for debugging. Why should I see the execution as a bunch of > stack frame? > > "How to set a breakpoint based on the object state?" > > > > self haltIf: > > I know this. But this is not an operation supported by the environment. It > is like a refactoring. I do not need the refactoring browser to do > refactoring. But since it is one-click away in the refactoring browser, I > refactor my code constantly. > > I understand. I was just pointing you the "backend" in case you were not aware. > > "Are all objects responsible for an odd execution or is there just a > particular one?" > > > > This is one of the things I was doing with the "used objects" stuff, > where I used a bit (the last one) in the Object Header and I modify the VM > to intercept all messages sent to such object and flag it as "used" when > they receive a message. So you could do: > > > > | results | > > results := UsedObjectDiscover trace: [ self blah ]. > > and results understands amountOfUsedObjects, amountOfUnusedObjects, blah > > You can also query which objects where used for the [ self balh] in this > case... > > Same thing. Having it embedded in the programming environment is > challenging. Nobody has done this. The only significant improvement of > debugger is omniscient. But we can go way further. > > I understand. But no matter the UI / environment / frontend , you will need first the "backend" (call it as you want). Cheers > Alexandre > > > > > "What is the exact difference of execution if I slightly change a > method?" > > "If I call #foo it works, if I call #foo2 it does not work. Why? What are > the objects that appears with #foo2 that do not appear with #foo?" > > All these questions are essential in my opinion. > > > > > > I agree. > > > > Code profiler and code debugger are pretty poor. I can continue with test > code coverage tools. > > After all, Computer Science is a pretty young science. > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > > > > > > > On 25 Apr 2011, at 07:34, Craig Latta wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Alexandre-- > > > > > >> Debugging, as well as profiling, is a topic that everybody got it > > >> wrong. We still debug an application in oo in the same way that > > >> people debugged their C program: thinking in term of call stack and > > >> stack frame instead of objects. > > > > > > So tell us more! :) How do you express causality? > > > > > > > > > -C > > > > > > -- > > > Craig Latta > > > www.netjam.org/resume > > > +31 06 2757 7177 > > > + 1 415 287 3547 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Find and replace doesn't accept with Enter key

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 6:52 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > > On Apr 25, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > I assume you are referring to the find dialog in OmniBrowser. > > > > No. I am talking about the Find and Replace of PharoCore. When you are > inside a method and you press CMD + F > > > > This has > > been fixed for Pharo 1.2 a long time ago, you just need to take/merge > > the code from my repository. > > > > yes I know :) > > Now ConfigurationOfOmnibrowser has you very latest versions and it is all > working great :) > > is it the version of lukas the one that is now in 1.3? > yes, but copied to PharoOB > Did you copy its file to the PharoOb Repository? yes > Because we should not rely on external repository. > and lukas suggested that approach. > > Stef > > > > > > > Lukas > > > > On 25 April 2011 16:50, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi alain. If I do cmd + f and I type something in the input, the only > way to > > > get the cursor in the result is by clickling in the "search" button. I > would > > > expected to be able to hit enter in addition. > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > -- > > > Mariano > > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Lukas Renggli > > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Help me get to ESUG 2011 ...

by Miguel CobÃ¡

El lun, 25-04-2011 a las 09:44 -0700, Sean P. DeNigris escribiÃ³: > I just started the ball rolling with a small donation. Redline is a great way > to sneak Smalltalk in the back door of enterprise organizations. Thanks for > doing all that work James. James, why don't you ask ESUG for support. AFAIK they have bugdet for this kind of situations. Cheers -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Find and replace doesn't accept with Enter key

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Apr 25, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I assume you are referring to the find dialog in OmniBrowser. > > No. I am talking about the Find and Replace of PharoCore. When you are inside a method and you press CMD + F > > This has > been fixed for Pharo 1.2 a long time ago, you just need to take/merge > the code from my repository. > > yes I know :) > Now ConfigurationOfOmnibrowser has you very latest versions and it is all working great :) is it the version of lukas the one that is now in 1.3? Did you copy its file to the PharoOb Repository? Because we should not rely on external repository. and lukas suggested that approach. Stef > > > Lukas > > On 25 April 2011 16:50, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi alain. If I do cmd + f and I type something in the input, the only way to > > get the cursor in the result is by clickling in the "search" button. I would > > expected to be able to hit enter in addition. > > What do you think? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] removing versions from configurations

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Indeed but loading default could have destroyed your image. So RPackage should not be managed with default. Now for stable I'm not sure that I set it up well so watch out. Stef On Apr 25, 2011, at 12:51 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > The Moose build broke because the 'default' version was removed from ConfigurationOfRPackage. > > I fixed it now by using #stable, but that is not the issue. > > I understand the need for cleaning, but we should be aware that removing versions from configurations can have far reaching ripple effects. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar." >

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Help me get to ESUG 2011 ...

by Sean P. DeNigris

I just started the ball rolling with a small donation. Redline is a great way to sneak Smalltalk in the back door of enterprise organizations. Thanks for doing all that work James. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Help-me-get-to-ESUG-2011-tp3472410p3473556.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] What is a well documented class?

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

I think a well documented class is a class which can be understood by reading its documentation without having to resort to anything else, be it running the test only to see something not obvious, reading the code to understand the working which the document fell short; and without having to assemble a mini encyclopedia of references in order to grasp the contents of the documentation. my 0.019999 -- Cesar Rabak

April 25, 2011