April 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Better debugging...

by Alexandre Bergel

I read this some times ago. Thanks for the link. I am interested to see which kind of "query" we can formulate for an execution. Cheers, Alexandre On 25 Apr 2011, at 13:50, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Alexandre: have you ever look to http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/blog?dialog=smalltak-meets-dtrace ? > He has integrated DTrace into the SqueakVM. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTrace > > Maybe it is of help... > > Cheers > > mariano > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:31 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > I understand. But no matter the UI / environment / frontend , you will need first the "backend" (call it as you want). > > Yeah, we need an implementation :-) > Your work is indeed important. I foresee nice discussions at esug. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > > > > > > > "What is the exact difference of execution if I slightly change a method?" > > > "If I call #foo it works, if I call #foo2 it does not work. Why? What are the objects that appears with #foo2 that do not appear with #foo?" > > > All these questions are essential in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > Code profiler and code debugger are pretty poor. I can continue with test code coverage tools. > > > After all, Computer Science is a pretty young science. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Alexandre > > > > > > > > > > > > On 25 Apr 2011, at 07:34, Craig Latta wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alexandre-- > > > > > > > >> Debugging, as well as profiling, is a topic that everybody got it > > > >> wrong. We still debug an application in oo in the same way that > > > >> people debugged their C program: thinking in term of call stack and > > > >> stack frame instead of objects. > > > > > > > > So tell us more! :) How do you express causality? > > > > > > > > > > > > -C > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Craig Latta > > > > www.netjam.org/resume > > > > +31 06 2757 7177 > > > > + 1 415 287 3547 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mariano > > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

April 25, 2011

[Pharo-project] Suggestions: move examples from UIThemes class to ExampleBuilderMorph class

by DougEdmunds

A couple of suggestions Part 1. Move the methods in the UIThemes class, protocol 'examples' to ExampleBuilderMorph class, protocol 'examples'. Rationale: Every one of these examples first creates an instance of ExampleBuilderMorph as the base class that the example is built on. These examples do not demonstrate anything about how to use UITheme. I made a file that duplicates the methods from UITheme class -examples- to ExampleBuilderMorph class -examples-, suitable for filein. Methods such as ExampleBuilderMorph class >>exampleBasicControls work fine, indicating they have no dependence on UITheme. The file's 347 lines, so I'm not posting it here, unless requested. Part 2. Then move ExampleBuilderMorph and ExampleRadioButtonModel from Polymorph-Widgets into a new package called Polymorph-Widgets-Examples. Rationale: This would be reduce the size of Polymorph-Widgets, and make it more obvious that there are some examples of the widgets to look at. UITheme class is not the place where one expects to find examples of buttons, checkboxes, etc. Also this would be consistent with other Morphic packages. (Morphic-MorphTreeWidget and Morphic-MorphTreeWidget-Examples) --- -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Suggestions-move-examples-from-UIThemes-class-to-Exam… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 25, 2011

[Pharo-project] Suggestion: rename some methods for consistency

by DougEdmunds

The vast majority of example methods follow a consistent naming pattern where the word 'example' starts the method name. There's a handful that don't. The advantage of this approach is that all the examples appear together in the browser list of methods. I suggest that these methods be renamed: BorderedMorph class >> gradientExample --> exampleGradient SimpleHierarchicalListMorph class >> submorphsExample --> exampleSubmorphs PluggableMenuSpec class >> withOneSingleItemExample --> exampleWithOneSingleItem PluggableMenuSpec class >> withSubMenuExample --> exampleWithSubMenu PluggableMenuSpec class >> withTwoSimpleItemsExample --> exampleWithTwoSimpleItems DigitalSignatureAlgorith >> writeExamplesToDisk --> exampleWriteToDisk UITheme class >> textEntryWithCompletionDialog --> exampletextEntryWithCompletionDialog UITheme class >> closeExampleDialogs --> exampleCloseDialogs (I've excluded test and testcase examples from this list). -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Suggestion-rename-some-methods-for-consistency-tp3473… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Better debugging...

by Alexandre Bergel

> I understand. But no matter the UI / environment / frontend , you will need first the "backend" (call it as you want). Yeah, we need an implementation :-) Your work is indeed important. I foresee nice discussions at esug. Cheers, Alexandre > > > > > "What is the exact difference of execution if I slightly change a method?" > > "If I call #foo it works, if I call #foo2 it does not work. Why? What are the objects that appears with #foo2 that do not appear with #foo?" > > All these questions are essential in my opinion. > > > > > > I agree. > > > > Code profiler and code debugger are pretty poor. I can continue with test code coverage tools. > > After all, Computer Science is a pretty young science. > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > > > > > > > On 25 Apr 2011, at 07:34, Craig Latta wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Alexandre-- > > > > > >> Debugging, as well as profiling, is a topic that everybody got it > > >> wrong. We still debug an application in oo in the same way that > > >> people debugged their C program: thinking in term of call stack and > > >> stack frame instead of objects. > > > > > > So tell us more! :) How do you express causality? > > > > > > > > > -C > > > > > > -- > > > Craig Latta > > > www.netjam.org/resume > > > +31 06 2757 7177 > > > + 1 415 287 3547 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Error with latest ProfStef in Pharo 1.3

by Alexandre Bergel

> May be I can check this with my local developer group on Tuesday (we meet from 12:30 -> 13h30. If you wake up early :) 13:30 in france is 8:30 in Chile. I usually arrive at 8:20 at work. So, we meet on tomorrow? Using IRC? Cheers, Alexandre > Laurent > > We could then write new tests, make sure ProfStef works for Pharo 1.3 and fix the bug found by Mariano. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 24 Apr 2011, at 12:33, laurent laffont wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > ah ah! This is what we have changed during the pharo cast. > > Laurent, do you want that we have a look at it together? > > > > haha I won't be able to look at it until Tuesday. > > > > Laurent. > > > > > > Cheers, > > Alexandre > > > > > > On 24 Apr 2011, at 11:30, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > > "Error 'Please use buildTutorialTopicFor: instead'" > > > > > > when I try to open it from the menu. > > > > > > ProfStefHelpTutorialBuilder >> buildHelpTopicFrom: aHelpTopicDescription > > > "Start building from the given help topic description" > > > > > > ^(self new) > > > rootToBuildFrom: aHelpTopicDescription; > > > build; > > > topicToBuild > > > > > > the rpoblem is that #new > > > > > > I am using last versions of Pharo1.3 > > > > > > -- > > > Mariano > > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > > > -- > > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Glamour theme

by Tudor Girba

Hi, On 25 Apr 2011, at 17:49, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > Hi Doru, > > Just wondering whether you have tried to remove the black border of each windows. The border is not black, it is only slightly darker and it is basically there to distinguish overlapping windows from one another. > I indeed like to not have it around button, scrollbar. Why not windows? You have a border around buttons, because you want to distinguish them from the background. The scrollbar does not have a border because you can already distinguish it against the white. > I have the impression what the window color has to slightly change when not in foreground. This is a terrible mechanism that I cannot make to work consistently. At least not yet. In any case, you would probably still want a small border. > I like the theme, even if I am more rounded than squared :-) The main reason for the square look is that rounded borders look terrible. If this would change, I would definitely play with it :). Cheers, Doru > Cheers, > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Beauty is where we see it."

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Metacello] Re: Metacellobrowser feedback

by Alexandre Bergel

> I understand the point you are making. I never intended my mails to be of the 'do this now' kind. I am just sharing my experiences and points of view. I have always had strong opinions about UI elements and lately even more since I have been reading up on the topic (because of my work on AspectMaps ). If my comments can be of any use and may be taken into account at some point, great, if not, no problem. I get that this is a work in progress and I am sure you have a lot of other things on your plate, as do we all :-/ > > (assuming you are replying to both my mails of last saturday, btw) No problem Johan. Thanks for sharing your experience and using your time to comment on our work. Cheers, Alexandre > > On 24 Apr 2011, at 11:52, Dale Henrichs wrote: > >> Johan, >> >> Just one point ... the ui for MetacelloBrowser is not expected to be complete at this point ... I think there are still a number of commands that need to be added before we can start considering what the final ui will look like ... once we have a feel for the set of commands that should be included and the type of work flow we are supporting (neither of which has been decided upon) we will be able to fine tune the ui and there is a lot of work that needs to be done ... >> >> You're comments about the fact that you had difficulty figuring out how to call your #loadDefault method are where we need to be focussing our efforts ... this is a missing piece of functionality that needs to be addressed. >> >> Spiffing up a ui _before_ you've decided on the final set of commands to be supported is the same type of mistake you make when making a premature optimization of an algorithm ... >> >> For me the biggest problem that I struggle with is the number of times that I must break out of the MetacelloBrowser to do work with Monticello Browser windows...I have included a number of commands in the MetacelloBrowser that allow you to perform many of the MonticelloBrowser functions and I see the need to add more ... So I begin thinking that maybe these functions should be incorporated into the MetacelloBrowser ... allow the direct viewing of the repository/history .... I'm also not happy with having to go the browser to see certain bits of information from the Metacello spec (like the description) .... I think we need to incorporate that as well ... We need major improvement in the ui for creating a configuration ... major work needs to be done there ... >> >> ... and more ... >> >> Dale >> On Apr 23, 2011, at 12:57 PM, Johan Fabry wrote: >> >>> >>> My 2 cents on this topic: user interface consistency cannot be underestimated. I called these 'leds' unit-test icons because thats what they are (in my mind and I guess also for a lot of other people). So using them for anything else is not a good idea at all. Alex' proposal seems (to me) a much better idea. > > > -- > Johan Fabry > jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > > > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Metacello] Which packages should we include of metacello for Pharo 1.3?

by Dale Henrichs

On 04/25/2011 10:41 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com > <mailto:dhenrich@vmware.com>> wrote: > > On 04/24/2011 12:03 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Dale Henrichs > <dhenrich(a)vmware.com <mailto:dhenrich@vmware.com> > <mailto:dhenrich@vmware.com <mailto:dhenrich@vmware.com>>> wrote: > > Mariano, > > (excluding the OB-Metallo menu items) ... > > > hi dale. What does it mean exactly? If right now I am loading : > #('Metacello-Core' 'Tutorial' 'UI' 'Metacello-ProfStef' > 'Metacello-Help'); and #('Tests') > you mean I should remove the group 'UI' ? > > > Yes ... I don't know if anyone beyond me ever used them and > eventually they will be replaced by the MetacelloBrowser ... if you > think folks were using the Metacello menus, then leave them in .... > > > > I never heard anyone using Metacello-OB so I think we can remove them. > However, if they are working, we can just let them in case someone still > use them, and when MetacelloBrowser comes in, we remove Metacello-OB. > Do you know more or less if Metacello-OB is working or no? > is anyone using Metacello-OB? speak up now! :) Prior to the MetacelloBrowser popping up, I used Metacello-OB so it is still working. OB is already loaded so it doesn't cost that much to include... Dale

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Better debugging...

by Alexandre Bergel

> Same thing for debugging. Why should I see the execution as a bunch of stack frame? > "How to set a breakpoint based on the object state?" > > self haltIf: I know this. But this is not an operation supported by the environment. It is like a refactoring. I do not need the refactoring browser to do refactoring. But since it is one-click away in the refactoring browser, I refactor my code constantly. > "Are all objects responsible for an odd execution or is there just a particular one?" > > This is one of the things I was doing with the "used objects" stuff, where I used a bit (the last one) in the Object Header and I modify the VM to intercept all messages sent to such object and flag it as "used" when they receive a message. So you could do: > > | results | > results := UsedObjectDiscover trace: [ self blah ]. > and results understands amountOfUsedObjects, amountOfUnusedObjects, blah > You can also query which objects where used for the [ self balh] in this case... Same thing. Having it embedded in the programming environment is challenging. Nobody has done this. The only significant improvement of debugger is omniscient. But we can go way further. Alexandre > > "What is the exact difference of execution if I slightly change a method?" > "If I call #foo it works, if I call #foo2 it does not work. Why? What are the objects that appears with #foo2 that do not appear with #foo?" > All these questions are essential in my opinion. > > > I agree. > > Code profiler and code debugger are pretty poor. I can continue with test code coverage tools. > After all, Computer Science is a pretty young science. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > > On 25 Apr 2011, at 07:34, Craig Latta wrote: > > > > > Hi Alexandre-- > > > >> Debugging, as well as profiling, is a topic that everybody got it > >> wrong. We still debug an application in oo in the same way that > >> people debugged their C program: thinking in term of call stack and > >> stack frame instead of objects. > > > > So tell us more! :) How do you express causality? > > > > > > -C > > > > -- > > Craig Latta > > www.netjam.org/resume > > +31 06 2757 7177 > > + 1 415 287 3547 > > > > > > > > > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] What is a well documented class?

by Alexandre Bergel

Ok, but what would be a tool that help you write comment? This cannot be the system browser. Alexandre On 25 Apr 2011, at 12:37, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > I think a well documented class is a class which can be understood by reading its documentation without having to resort to anything else, be it running the test only to see something not obvious, reading the code to understand the working which the document fell short; and without having to assemble a mini encyclopedia of references in order to grasp the contents of the documentation. > > my 0.019999 > > -- > Cesar Rabak > -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

April 25, 2011