April 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 2559 in pharo: Senders of #ifNotNil: do not show

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Updates: Status: Closed Comment #13 on issue 2559 by marcus.d...(a)gmail.com: Senders of #ifNotNil: do not show http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2559 in 13138

April 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3849 in pharo: ExternalSettings should be cleaned

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Updates: Status: Closed Comment #3 on issue 3849 by marcus.d...(a)gmail.com: ExternalSettings should be cleaned http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3849 in 13138

April 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3692 in pharo: Default line-end convention fix

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Comment #7 on issue 3692 by elpochod...(a)gmail.com: Default line-end convention fix http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3692 from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline CR+LF: DEC TOPS-10, RT-11 and most other early non-Unix, non-IBM OSes, CP/M, MP/M, DOS (MS-DOS, PC-DOS, etc.), Atari TOS, OS/2, Microsoft Windows, Symbian OS, Palm OS LF+CR: Acorn BBC spooled text output. CR: Commodore 8-bit machines, Acorn BBC, TRS-80, Apple II family, Mac OS up to version 9 and OS-9 LF: Multics, Unix and Unix-like systems (GNU/Linux, AIX, Xenix, Mac OS X, FreeBSD, etc.), BeOS, Amiga, RISC OS, and others. However, in tty 'raw mode', CR+LF is used for output and CR is used for input. so on linux and MacOSX should be LF (I'm wrongly getting CR with Pharo1.2 and Pharo1.3 on Ubuntu). On MacOS9 should be CR.

April 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Have started an independent developer activity - Thank you

by laurent laffont

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com > wrote: > Congrats Laurent. I hope you can succeed! Remember that business is also > part of the community. There are a lot of several companies held by guys in > our community (also using Smalltalk). You, companies, should talk and do > business together :) > Oh, we will ;) Laurent > Cheers > > Mariano > > > On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be>wrote: > >> >> On 09 Apr 2011, at 09:34, laurent laffont wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > I discovered Smalltalk and Pharo almost three years ago and just after >> read Chad Fowler book "Passionate Programmer" (1st edition title was "My job >> went to India"). These have changed my developer life, how I perceive >> software and that great technology is fun, people doing it more. You're a >> cool community and I'm proud to be there. >> > >> > Now I've started an aside (paid :) independent developer activity thanks >> to a cool guy. That would not be possible without all the stuff I learn >> every day from the community and the urge to continue you give me. >> >> Great for you Laurent, you absolutely deserve, I wish you success. >> >> > Each time I've made a step forward (open a blog, write ProfStef, fix >> bugs, create PharoCasts) I've been amazed that the generated effects were >> those described in Passionate Programmer (go read it !) The last chapter is >> "Go independent" so now I need the sequel ;) >> > >> > Special big thank you to StÃ©phane Ducasse - you're crazy :) Long live >> Pharo ! >> > >> > >> > PS: nice piece of Passionate Programmer: >> > >> > When I was in India weeding through hundreds of candidates for only >> > tens of jobs, the interview team was exhausting itself and running out >> > of time because of a poor interview-to-hire hit rate. Heads hurting and >> > eyes red, we held a late-night meeting to discuss a strategic change in >> the >> > way we would go through the candidates. We had to either optimize the >> > process so we could interview more people or somehow interview better >> > people (or both). With what little was left of my voice after twelve >> straight >> > hours of trying to drag answers out of dumbstruck programmers, I argued >> > for adding Smalltalk to the list of keywords our headhunters were using >> > to search their rÃ©sumÃ© database. But, nobody knows Smalltalk in India, >> cried >> > the human resources director. That was my point. Nobody knew it, and >> > programming in Smalltalk was a fundamentally different experience than >> > programming in Java. The varying experience would give candidates a >> > different level of expectations, and the dynamic nature of the Smalltalk >> > environment would reshape the way a Java programmer would approach >> > a problem. My hope was that these factors would encourage a level of >> > technical maturity that I hadnât been seeing from the candidates Iâd met >> so >> > far. >> > The addition of Smalltalk to the requirements list yielded a candidate >> pool >> > that was tiny in contrast to our previous list. These people were >> diamonds >> > in the rough. They really understood object-oriented programming. They >> > were aware that Java isnât the idealistic panacea itâs sometimes made >> out >> > to be. Many of them loved to program! Where have you been for the past >> two >> > weeks? we thought. >> > Unfortunately, our ability to attract these developers for the salaries >> we >> > were able to pay was limited. They were calling the shots, and most of >> > them chose to stay where they were or to keep looking for a new job. >> > Though we failed to recruit many of them, we learned a valuable recruit- >> > ing lesson: we were more likely to extend offers to candidates with >> diverse >> > (and even unorthodox) experience than to those whose experiences were >> > homogenous. My explanation is that either the good people seek out >> > diversity, because they love to learn new things, or being forced into >> alien >> > experiences and environments created more mature, well-rounded soft- >> > ware developers. I suspect itâs a little of both, but regardless of why >> it >> > works, we learned that it works. I still use this technique when looking >> > for developers. >> >> Nice story, very true here as well, developers with broad interests are >> better, but there are not many of them. >> >> > Laurent Laffont - @lolgzs >> > >> > Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ >> > Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ >> > Developer group: http://cara74.seasidehosting.st >> > >> > >> >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > >

April 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Have started an independent developer activity - Thank you

by laurent laffont

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be>wrote: > > On 09 Apr 2011, at 09:34, laurent laffont wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I discovered Smalltalk and Pharo almost three years ago and just after > read Chad Fowler book "Passionate Programmer" (1st edition title was "My job > went to India"). These have changed my developer life, how I perceive > software and that great technology is fun, people doing it more. You're a > cool community and I'm proud to be there. > > > > Now I've started an aside (paid :) independent developer activity thanks > to a cool guy. That would not be possible without all the stuff I learn > every day from the community and the urge to continue you give me. > > Great for you Laurent, you absolutely deserve, I wish you success. > Thank you ! Laurent > > > Each time I've made a step forward (open a blog, write ProfStef, fix > bugs, create PharoCasts) I've been amazed that the generated effects were > those described in Passionate Programmer (go read it !) The last chapter is > "Go independent" so now I need the sequel ;) > > > > Special big thank you to StÃ©phane Ducasse - you're crazy :) Long live > Pharo ! > > > > > > PS: nice piece of Passionate Programmer: > > > > When I was in India weeding through hundreds of candidates for only > > tens of jobs, the interview team was exhausting itself and running out > > of time because of a poor interview-to-hire hit rate. Heads hurting and > > eyes red, we held a late-night meeting to discuss a strategic change in > the > > way we would go through the candidates. We had to either optimize the > > process so we could interview more people or somehow interview better > > people (or both). With what little was left of my voice after twelve > straight > > hours of trying to drag answers out of dumbstruck programmers, I argued > > for adding Smalltalk to the list of keywords our headhunters were using > > to search their rÃ©sumÃ© database. But, nobody knows Smalltalk in India, > cried > > the human resources director. That was my point. Nobody knew it, and > > programming in Smalltalk was a fundamentally different experience than > > programming in Java. The varying experience would give candidates a > > different level of expectations, and the dynamic nature of the Smalltalk > > environment would reshape the way a Java programmer would approach > > a problem. My hope was that these factors would encourage a level of > > technical maturity that I hadnât been seeing from the candidates Iâd met > so > > far. > > The addition of Smalltalk to the requirements list yielded a candidate > pool > > that was tiny in contrast to our previous list. These people were > diamonds > > in the rough. They really understood object-oriented programming. They > > were aware that Java isnât the idealistic panacea itâs sometimes made out > > to be. Many of them loved to program! Where have you been for the past > two > > weeks? we thought. > > Unfortunately, our ability to attract these developers for the salaries > we > > were able to pay was limited. They were calling the shots, and most of > > them chose to stay where they were or to keep looking for a new job. > > Though we failed to recruit many of them, we learned a valuable recruit- > > ing lesson: we were more likely to extend offers to candidates with > diverse > > (and even unorthodox) experience than to those whose experiences were > > homogenous. My explanation is that either the good people seek out > > diversity, because they love to learn new things, or being forced into > alien > > experiences and environments created more mature, well-rounded soft- > > ware developers. I suspect itâs a little of both, but regardless of why > it > > works, we learned that it works. I still use this technique when looking > > for developers. > > Nice story, very true here as well, developers with broad interests are > better, but there are not many of them. > > > Laurent Laffont - @lolgzs > > > > Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ > > Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ > > Developer group: http://cara74.seasidehosting.st > > > > > > >

April 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Have started an independent developer activity - Thank you

by laurent laffont

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>wrote: > > On Apr 9, 2011, at 9:34 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > > Hi, > > I discovered Smalltalk and Pharo almost three years ago and just after read > Chad Fowler book "Passionate Programmer" (1st edition title was "My job went > to India"). These have changed my developer life, how I perceive software > and that great technology is fun, people doing it more. You're a cool > community and I'm proud to be there. > > Now I've started an aside (paid :) independent developer activity thanks to > a cool guy. That would not be possible without all the stuff I learn every > day from the community and the urge to continue you give me. > > Each time I've made a step forward (open a blog, write ProfStef, fix bugs, > create PharoCasts) I've been amazed that the generated effects were those > described in Passionate Programmer (go read it !) The last chapter is "Go > independent" so now I need the sequel ;) > > So we can add an entry to the "companies using pharo" soon, I hope! > > http://www.pharo-project.org/about/success-stories > I don't have a company name and no website yet.... But I hope too ! Laurent > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > >

April 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Unexpected behavior of roundTo:

by Andres Valloud

On 4/9/11 0:28 , Marcus Denker wrote: > > On Apr 9, 2011, at 9:09 AM, Andres Valloud wrote: > >> I think the real solution to these "problems" is to implement >> decimal floating point as per IEEE-754/2008. \\ > > The MPFR lib seems to me (as far as I understand) is inspired by IEEE > 754 > > <quote from the docs> The docs seem to suggest MPRF implements variable precision binary floating point numbers. IEEE-754/2008, as opposed to IEEE-754/1985, also specifies types for base 10 (i.e.: decimal) floating point numbers. In other words, 2.5 wouldn't be represented as (101)_2, but (25)_10. Thus, going back to the original problem that caused this discussion, > 2.8011416510246336 roundTo: 0.01 > > returns > > 2.8000000000000003 the problem here is that there is no binary floating point number that can represent the number 0.01. The arguments why this is so are the usual (and I just put them here for the sake of completeness): binary floating point numbers represent fractions of the form +/- m * 2^k where m, k are integers such that 0 <= m < M, and e <= k <= K. So let's try to find which values of m and k match for 0.01: 1/100 = m * 2^k Well, m is not zero, so it must be at least 1, and so k must be negative. Set k' = -k and rearrange: 2^k' = 100m Now we invoke the help of the fundamental theorem of arithmetic that says integers can be factored into primes in only one way. On the left we only have 2 as a prime factor. On the right, there is a factor of 5. Therefore, we conclude the above equality is impossible. So, m and k do not exist, and so no binary floating point number is equal to 0.01. To make the story short, you cannot assume lossless operation just because you can see a base 10 print string. If loss of precision is the issue because we only have 2^k' on the left, let's try base 10 instead. In other words, floating point numbers in which the base is 10 represent values of the form +/- m * 10^k where m, k are integers such that 0 <= m < M, and e <= k <= K. So let's try to find which values of m and k match for 0.01: 1/100 = m * 10^k So now we just match the fraction on the left with m=1 and k=-2. Done. Of course, there are values that cannot be represented without loss of precision, but the loss of precision involves only m and k. For example, 67423523487542376543765376234576235726345623472 = m * 10^k when 0 <= m < M and M = 9. There are not enough digits in the mantissa, so the result is going to be 7*10^k for some k. But this issue happens as well with binary floating point numbers when k is positive. Try 67423523487542376543765376234576235726345623472 asFloat truncated Increasing the precision of binary floating point numbers to arbitrary precision help you if you need a bigger mantissa, but a bigger mantissa does not solve the fundamental problem of binary floating point numbers that causes imprecision whenever you use base 10 to write down values. > MPFR is LGPL, so linking that in the VM or using it via FFI is no > problem license wise. I am not convinced that's what you need: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_floating_point And it looks like Intel wrote a decimal floating point library, too... now I need to check the license on this one as well: http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2008/03/06/intel-decimal-floating-poi… Andres.

April 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3975 in pharo: References to ivars shortcut

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Comment #2 on issue 3975 by renggli: References to ivars shortcut http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3975 Cool idea, I've added the same to OB.

April 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Help (perfect for newcomers) migrating a technical FAQ

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Excellent!!! :) Thanks to all of you for the offer. On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Max Leske <maxleske(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I am. > > I'll do a very quick migration only because I don't have much time. It can > be beautified later. If that's ok with everyone I'll do it tonight. > > Max > > On 09.04.2011, at 14:45, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > One year after..... anyone interested ? > > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < > marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi folks. I had a good idea and and it perfect for someone that wants to >> help and don't know how. It is not the most entertained task, but I promise >> you will learn a lot. Mostly, if you are newcomer. >> >> The idea is basically to migrate the FAQ that is here: >> >> http://scg.unibe.ch/wiki/faq/pharofaq >> >> to a new section in the collaborative Pharo book: >> >> http://book.pharo-project.org/ >> >> So....any takers ? Let us know so that we generate a new user in the Book >> >> The idea is also to check whether what is says is still correct for pharo >> or if it needs an update. Or even how to improve it (from the view of a >> newcomer). >> >> Thanks >> >> Mariano >> > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

April 9, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Help (perfect for newcomers) migrating a technical FAQ

by Max Leske

I am. I'll do a very quick migration only because I don't have much time. It can be beautified later. If that's ok with everyone I'll do it tonight. Max On 09.04.2011, at 14:45, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > One year after..... anyone interested ? > > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi folks. I had a good idea and and it perfect for someone that wants to help and don't know how. It is not the most entertained task, but I promise you will learn a lot. Mostly, if you are newcomer. > > The idea is basically to migrate the FAQ that is here: > > http://scg.unibe.ch/wiki/faq/pharofaq > > to a new section in the collaborative Pharo book: > > http://book.pharo-project.org/ > > So....any takers ? Let us know so that we generate a new user in the Book > > The idea is also to check whether what is says is still correct for pharo or if it needs an update. Or even how to improve it (from the view of a newcomer). > > Thanks > > Mariano > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

April 9, 2011