March 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Remove #class as a Compiler optimization

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 25 March 2011 19:22, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Toon Verwaest <toon.verwaest(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> > >>>> What do you think? > >>> > >>> I am for... for the JIT is is a monomorphic send to a primitive, so the > >>> IC will be very effective > >>> and should take care that the lookup is actually almost never done. > (and > >>> the lookup is the > >>> only thing the #class bytecode saves, as the target method is a > >>> primitive). > >> > >> I think that programmers should have the illusion that the VM interacts > >> with the system through message sends. By being able to overwrite this > >> particular message you break this illusion. The VM will just fetch the > real > >> class; but the user doesn't get access to it anymore. Telling the system > >> that this particular message shouldn't be overwritten is probably a good > >> thing. > >> > >> If you want to overwrite the method class, maybe your tools should send > >> another message than class in the first place? > > > > Of course I can do that. I can also do > > > > (ParseNode classVarNamed: 'StdSelectors') removeKey: #class > ifAbsent: > > []. > > Compiler recompileAll. > > > > I don't care. I have it working for my "usage". This was just an example. > > > > And don't compare #class with all the boolean methods like #ifNil: and > > friends or the bytecodes for integer operations....I think #class is > sent > > far less times than those... > > > > Yes. and i predict that performance impact in macro benchmarks, where > you running normal code > (which not sending this message intentionally in a loop) will be at > the noise level magnitude. > So...what about doing something more real...for example, run all the testcases and compare time. Wouldn't that be a good "benchmark" ? BTW, can I run all test from code? (not using the TestRunner UI) > > > > >> > >> I do however agree that many other optimizations become slightly > >> superfluous, such as bytecodes for integer operations ... that somehow > seems > >> like compile-time inline-cached behavior without the ability to flush > the > >> cache :) > >> > >> cheers, > >> Toon > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > >

March 28, 2011

[Pharo-project] PharoCasts with experts

by laurent laffont

Hi, Actually I'm training remotely a developer on Pharo using Skype and TeamViewer. This guy records all sessions for its own purpose and I like the idea. For PharoCasts I would like to record 30mn to 1 hour sessions (as I know you don't have time) with an expert who shows us real code, explaining a framework / programming style / pattern while programming some examples (in the spirit of PharoCasts, and may be http://forum.world.st/Screencast-proposition-Watch-someone-read-code-td3244…) Right now I'm thinking about: - Mariano on DBXTalk - Gary on Polymorph - Igor on VM debugging or FFI / NativeBoost (for example interfacing with http://id3lib.sourceforge.net/ or other lib) - Lukas on Magritte or PetitParser - Dale on Metacello - Nicolas on Iliad - Janko on Aida/Web and all that I forgot ..... I'm sure plenty of people would like their open-source project to be more known. This may be an opportunity. How to do this: contact me if you wish to do that so we can choose an hour that match our respective calendars and agree on tools used (skype, google video chat, vnc, teamviewer, ....) - I will care about video stuff. Just talk and code :) Anyone ? Laurent Laffont - @lolgzs <http://twitter.com/#!/lolgzs> Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Developer group: http://cara74.seasidehosting.st

March 28, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] rack/wsgi/ring for smalltalk

by Sean Allen

On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be> wrote: > > On 27 Mar 2011, at 19:13, Sean Allen wrote: > >> Is there a smalltalk equivalent for rack/wsgi/ring etc out there? >> >> I have an idea I'm going to play with that would be best served by >> building on something like rack. >> If there isn't one already, I'll implement one first and then move on >> to the idea that builds on it. >> If there is one, I'd rather see if it meets my needs and use it. >> >> Any pointers to anything appreciated. >> >> For Â anyone not familiar with rack et al: >> >> They are basically' middleware' layers providing a standard interface >> between webservers and applications. >> Middleware is a little deceptive... a better description might be that >> it is an interface that allows you to >> hook into between a webserver and other end points by either hooking >> up an application or middleware >> ( authentication, file serving ) that can be composed together as part >> of a specific application. >> >> http://rack.rubyforge.org/ >> https://github.com/mmcgrana/ring >> http://www.wsgi.org/wsgi/ > > Might be cool and useful. > I guess that Seaside's WAServerAdaptor concept comes very close. > It has the advantage that it's proven in the field, supporting many servers in different Smalltalk implementations. > But maybe you already knew this. > WAServerAdaptor isn't really much like ring, rack et al. But it does put the thought into my mind that it would be interesting down the road to try and take the Seaside infrastructure and work something like rack into it.

March 27, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] who is using softSqueak and standard Squeak

by Stuart Herring

I definitely use them - I like being able to locate the windows instantly by colour. And a less practical reason is that the grey default themes always make me feel depressed. Programming shouldn't be grey and boring, it should be fun ;) A new, supported colourised theme would be a wonderful thing - particularly if there were settings to choose the colour scheme. I like the coloured windows so much that I've been tempted to go back to Squeak - right up until the overloaded world menu reminds me why I prefer Pharo. Regards, Stuart On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 7:40 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi guys > > just out of curiosity who is using SoftSqueak and Standard Squeak theme? > I know that lukas like colored windows now may be specific new style with this behavior could be done? > > Stef >

March 27, 2011

[Pharo-project] [COTDC] 37 - MCPatcher

by laurent laffont

Today: MCPatcher Comment Of The Day Contest - One Day One Comment Rules: #1: Each day a not commented class is elected. Each day the best comment will be integrated with name of the author(s). #2: If you cannot comment it, deprecate it. Results: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/CommentOfTheDayContest Laurent

March 27, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] A stupid magritte question :(

by Lukas Renggli

Hi Stef, You can try with MAToManyScalarRelationDescription where the #reference: description is a MAStringDescription. Philippe added this many years ago, but I don't think that it has seen much use. Lukas On 27 March 2011 20:56, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi all and (lukas in particular) > > I have an object which hold a list of strings and I would like to describe it using magritte so I thought that I should use > a MAContainer. > > But how should I specify the fact that the elements are of a specific class? > > Stef > -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

March 27, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Opal decompiler: I've been a big good ... I've been a bit bad ...

by Toon Verwaest

> I guess it would be cool to transform it to message like > > 'self undefinedVariableAccess: #varName' > and: > 'self undefinedVariableAccess: #varName value: val' > for assignments. > > Then later, when given method will run, it will trigger an error and > developer can fix it in debugger. > > (Unless, of course you simply raise an error during (re)compilation > when given ivar removed from class). That's the plan yes. Niko is working on that part now. I guess for now we might keep it on Eliot's proposal of just transforming to an undefined field access; but we'll see. One of the ideas is of course to collect the methods that get affected by a change and report back to the user; just like with all other types of errors that can occur during class modification. We have a pretty cool model already so it's becoming increasingly easy to install such hooks. I hate self error: 'your class is invalid because of something somewhere', and we'll get that all fixed! > If you create a copy of method, copy the method's trailer. > > > trailer := oldMethod trailer. > > newMethod := CompiledMethod newBytes: ... trailerBytes: ***trailer*** > nArgs: ... nTemps: .. nStack: ... nLits: ... primitive: ... It seems that the opal compiler has a compiledMethodWith: trailer. Useful ;) I just had to set the methodClass: and selector: myself. Fair enough. @Eliot thanks for the hints. I'll take it into account to make the recompilation complete. If Niko doesn't finish it this evening I'll probably do it tomorrow... I'm in the need of a small break :) Ignoring the fact that it doesn't support removing instance variables yet, it would very well already. Pretty cool to see methods updated on bytecode level without slow recompilation. Aaah... rewriting the classbuilder is starting to pay off :) And then on to stateful traits. Just for credits: I'm working together with Camillo Bruni and Niko Schwarz on this. cheers, Toon

March 27, 2011

[Pharo-project] A stupid magritte question :(

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi all and (lukas in particular) I have an object which hold a list of strings and I would like to describe it using magritte so I thought that I should use a MAContainer. But how should I specify the fact that the elements are of a specific class? Stef

March 27, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] rack/wsgi/ring for smalltalk

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 27 Mar 2011, at 19:13, Sean Allen wrote: > Is there a smalltalk equivalent for rack/wsgi/ring etc out there? > > I have an idea I'm going to play with that would be best served by > building on something like rack. > If there isn't one already, I'll implement one first and then move on > to the idea that builds on it. > If there is one, I'd rather see if it meets my needs and use it. > > Any pointers to anything appreciated. > > For anyone not familiar with rack et al: > > They are basically' middleware' layers providing a standard interface > between webservers and applications. > Middleware is a little deceptive... a better description might be that > it is an interface that allows you to > hook into between a webserver and other end points by either hooking > up an application or middleware > ( authentication, file serving ) that can be composed together as part > of a specific application. > > http://rack.rubyforge.org/ > https://github.com/mmcgrana/ring > http://www.wsgi.org/wsgi/ Might be cool and useful. I guess that Seaside's WAServerAdaptor concept comes very close. It has the advantage that it's proven in the field, supporting many servers in different Smalltalk implementations. But maybe you already knew this. Sven

March 27, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Opal decompiler: I've been a big good ... I've been a bit bad ...

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi toon this is a good news. I would really like to see Opal taking off the ground. Stef On Mar 27, 2011, at 7:14 PM, Toon Verwaest wrote: > For whoever might care: I rewrote / fixed the Opal decompiler. > > Sorry about me being a bit bad... my only test is this: > > CompiledMethod allInstances collect: [ :m | > (OCBytecodeDecompiler new decompile: m) compiledMethod ] > > At least on the helvetia image that doesn't give any errors :) > > On to hooking it in with my new classbuilder and MethodModification model to apply bytecode rewriting for hyperfast class changes. I'll be back in an hour ;P > > cheers, > Toon >

March 27, 2011