February 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Good reference on time on unit testing?

by Ramon Leon

On 02/27/2011 06:12 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Understood. But, doing it correctly, how much of your time do you spend on the test writing/maintenance side? Far less time than you'll spend manually testing over the course of writing and maintaining the program. You can't avoid testing, nor the time spent doing it, the only question is do want to do it manually and haphazardly with fingers crossed hoping you didn't break anything every publish, or do it with automated tests so you know you didn't break anything every time. -- Ramon Leon http://onsmalltalk.com

Feb. 27, 2011

[Pharo-project] Issue 3764 in pharo: Test runner: file out results sometimes disabled even with existing failures / errors.

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Status: Accepted Owner: laurent....(a)gmail.com New issue 3764 by laurent....(a)gmail.com: Test runner: file out results sometimes disabled even with existing failures / errors. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3764 in 1.2 Fix coming.

Feb. 27, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Good reference on time on unit testing?

by Yanni Chiu

On 27/02/11 7:58 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > I have no problem arguing that testing (if done well) can/will reduce > overall development time; the question is how much of that time one > should expect to devote to writing and maintaining unit and > acceptance tests? You've asked the question for the third time, so all the TDD explanations seem to have missed the mark. How about asking instead: how much test code do people write? Maybe this way, both the TDD and the "how much time" viewpoints can be accommodated (because volume of test code is roughly proportional to time to write test code). -- Yanni Chiu

Feb. 27, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] comments comments comments again

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks dale. Stef > Since I have edited ConfigurationOfPharo I can add an appropriate comment ... I will add comments to the other configurations as well ... > > Dale > > On Feb 27, 2011, at 7:18 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi >> >> why can we put comment in class comment? >> For example I worked on fixing 1.2 and now I want to execute the configurationOfPharo and no magic invocation.... >> JUST A FUCKING EMPTY class comment as usual. >> >> >> So again I feel like an idiot and I'm trying in the dark. You have NOT A SINGLE REASON NOT TO PUT COMMENT! >> One of these days I will hack the system to break the load when a class as no comment. >> >> So now after randomly trying.....I get a nice DNU. >> Apparently my time is not worth anything.... >> >> So if you want to see if my fix works. Give a try I will not and if what I did break, may be I will have a look or may be not >> because no time for that after. >> >> >> And BTW do not put any comment, it feels much cooler that way. >> >> Stef >> >> > >

Feb. 27, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] shout for pharo 1.2: Please help.

by Dale Henrichs

Stef, I will try to take a look at your issue today along with testing out the configuration fixes I have pending ... both Pharo and Shout had configuration issues, but I can't say that your particular issue is related ... yet. Dale On Feb 27, 2011, at 7:57 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi guys > > I modified > > version 1.2.1 of ConfigurationOfShout to load my version > Shout-sd.101 (apparently lot of comments were removed between Benjamin.100 and Benjamin.101 - strange) > > > In ConfigurationOfPharo there is > > project: 'Shout' with: '1.2.1'; > > > Now in ConfigurationOfShout there are > > version122: spec <version: '1.2.2' imports: #('1.1-baseline')> spec for: #common do: [ spec blessing: #development. spec author: 'Francisco Ortiz PeÃ±aloza'. spec description: 'Shout Changes for 1.2 using new SmalltalkEditor'. ]. > > > version121: spec > <version: '1.2.1' imports: #('1.1-baseline')> > > spec for: #common do: [ > spec blessing: #development. > spec author: 'Stephane Ducasse'. > spec description: 'Shout for 1.2'. > ]. > > > When I load the latest stable of Pharo > > ((Smalltalk globals at: #ConfigurationOfPharo) project version: #stable) load > > I get an error due to a duplicate (probably the instance variable of pluggableShout.....). > Probably loading the wrong package. > > So I do not know what to do and lost my time. > > Stef

Feb. 27, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] comments comments comments again

by Dale Henrichs

Since I have edited ConfigurationOfPharo I can add an appropriate comment ... I will add comments to the other configurations as well ... Dale On Feb 27, 2011, at 7:18 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi > > why can we put comment in class comment? > For example I worked on fixing 1.2 and now I want to execute the configurationOfPharo and no magic invocation.... > JUST A FUCKING EMPTY class comment as usual. > > > So again I feel like an idiot and I'm trying in the dark. You have NOT A SINGLE REASON NOT TO PUT COMMENT! > One of these days I will hack the system to break the load when a class as no comment. > > So now after randomly trying.....I get a nice DNU. > Apparently my time is not worth anything.... > > So if you want to see if my fix works. Give a try I will not and if what I did break, may be I will have a look or may be not > because no time for that after. > > > And BTW do not put any comment, it feels much cooler that way. > > Stef > >

Feb. 27, 2011

[Pharo-project] shout for pharo 1.2: Please help.

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys I modified version 1.2.1 of ConfigurationOfShout to load my version Shout-sd.101 (apparently lot of comments were removed between Benjamin.100 and Benjamin.101 - strange) In ConfigurationOfPharo there is project: 'Shout' with: '1.2.1'; Now in ConfigurationOfShout there are version122: spec <version: '1.2.2' imports: #('1.1-baseline')> spec for: #common do: [ spec blessing: #development. spec author: 'Francisco Ortiz PeÃ±aloza'. spec description: 'Shout Changes for 1.2 using new SmalltalkEditor'. ]. version121: spec <version: '1.2.1' imports: #('1.1-baseline')> spec for: #common do: [ spec blessing: #development. spec author: 'Stephane Ducasse'. spec description: 'Shout for 1.2'. ]. When I load the latest stable of Pharo ((Smalltalk globals at: #ConfigurationOfPharo) project version: #stable) load I get an error due to a duplicate (probably the instance variable of pluggableShout.....). Probably loading the wrong package. So I do not know what to do and lost my time. Stef

Feb. 27, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Good reference on time on unit testing?

by laurent laffont

On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>wrote: > Understood. But, doing it correctly, how much of your time do you spend on > the test writing/maintenance side? None. Seriously none. I never pause and say "OK now it's time to write tests and maintain existing ones". It's part of the TDD cycle: write a test, make it green, refactor. write a test, make it green, refactor. The cycle can go from 1mn to 10mn, rarely more. And if you use the Pomodoro technique, you feel it even better. Test writing/maintenance is part of programming. Sometimes you can say "OK before implementing this new story, I would like to refactor here and here (tests + code) because I don't like it". We also do this stuff on legacy code when tests are not here. But it's far easier when we have good test coverage. I found some blog posts, but I was hoping for some peer-reviewed papers that > go on the record. > > I am trying to make the point you are making, and it will go over better if > I can point to literature and some numbers that I suspect will be seen as > sobering. Tests ARE being "written after" in this case, but assuming they > change to a proper process, they still need to understand that tests take > thought and work. > > When tests are written after, it's another kind of story. Then "how much time we should spend writing test" is valid. I don't have any answer. TDD is not easy. Learning to write good tests takes time (years), investment. If someone in your team have good experience with it, he should pair program continuously with other programmers. Participating in coding-dojo , code retreats with experienced developers is great too. Laurent. > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [ > pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Peter > Hugosson-Miller [oldmanlink(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:58 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Good reference on time on unit testing? > > +100 > > Couldn't have said it better myself! > > -- > Cheers, > Peter. > > On 27 feb 2011, at 08:27, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com > <mailto:laurent.laffont@gmail.com>> wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 4:52 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <<mailto: > bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu>> > wrote: > Hello all, > > Can anyone recommend a good reference on the amount of time one should > expect to spend writing tests? I will have to be the messenger (will be > wearing running shoes just in case...), but I want the message to come from > a solid source. > > If you develop the TDD way (which I always do at work) then I would say > this question is not valid. Your production code will be there because of > tests. In legacy system, new and refactored code will be there because of > tests. > > IMHO the questions "how much time should I spend writing tests?" or "how > many tests should I write ?" are raised when tests are written after. And > sadly tests often become a burden in this case and doesn't support the > pressure of releases / last minute changes / ... (I've done it this way > almost 10 years ago, not good :) > > In TDD the question is "which stories / scenarios do we have to implement > ?". It's more a Product owner / customer point of view. > > The best book on TDD I've read is Dave Astels TDD: a practical guide > (Indeed, this one has really changed my mind on how testing should be done, > and other books I've read since don't). > > Laurent > > > > Bill > > > > > > >

Feb. 27, 2011

[Pharo-project] comments comments comments again

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi why can we put comment in class comment? For example I worked on fixing 1.2 and now I want to execute the configurationOfPharo and no magic invocation.... JUST A FUCKING EMPTY class comment as usual. So again I feel like an idiot and I'm trying in the dark. You have NOT A SINGLE REASON NOT TO PUT COMMENT! One of these days I will hack the system to break the load when a class as no comment. So now after randomly trying.....I get a nice DNU. Apparently my time is not worth anything.... So if you want to see if my fix works. Give a try I will not and if what I did break, may be I will have a look or may be not because no time for that after. And BTW do not put any comment, it feels much cooler that way. Stef

Feb. 27, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3707 in pharo: Syntax highlighting looks strange

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Comment #23 on issue 3707 by tudor.gi...(a)gmail.com: Syntax highlighting looks strange http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3707 I copied the latest Glamour-Morphic-Theme in PharoInbox. In there you have the method: GLMUITheme class>>setPreferredShoutColors that has the set of colors we use in the Moose distribution. It is pretty close to what used to be in the Pharo development image.

Feb. 27, 2011