December 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Company/freelance working with Pharo/Seaside

by Stephan Eggermont

Sven wrote: > Having an active community where many people participate in making Pharo better all the time is the best reference. While that is a necessity, it is only relevant for a certain public (technically advanced, developer oriented, long term view). It is not necessarily something other potential customers value. I'm currently doing a data conversion project. Everything outside a timespan of the next 6 months is simply irrelevant. Startups with a lack of deep technological knowledge also cannot tell the difference between a very large but clueless community and a small, but active and knowledgable. > It is also important that success stories, even small ones, are shared. Very much so. And (also) in a form that less technical people can understand. > But I guess that half the people on these lists are available for remotely delivered services in one form or another ;-) That seems like a correct observation. On the other hand these mailing lists function as a filter and are not a good way to match demand and supply. The problem is in explaining where Pharo/Seaside can provide a good solution in business terms. > Although it is important that the community keeps on growing, we reached critical mass a long time ago, IMHO. For innovators yes. For early adopters, no. They value different things. Stephan

Dec. 12, 2011

[Pharo-project] Videos ESUG 2010 on Youtube

by Marcus Denker

Now *complete* 54 videos, 35 hours play time. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL431285A978F581BB -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Dec. 12, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Citezen

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Ok, I'll bite: is the mismatch somehow acceptable? Without the extraneous brace, Citezen parses the text; with the extraneous brace, it gives a token not expected error, which seems completely correct. Am I missing something? My image is a little old (if it ain't broke...), so maybe there has been a breaking change?? Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Alexandre Bergel [alexandre.bergel(a)me.com] Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 2:54 PM To: Oscar Nierstrasz Cc: Pharo Development Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Citezen I haven't checked closely, but it may comes from the bibitem Kort08a: @incollection{Kort08a, author = {Kortenkamp, David and Simmons, Reid}, title = {Robotic systems architectures and programming}, chapter = {8}, booktitle = {Springer Handbook of Robotics}, pages = {187--206}, address = {Berlin, Heidelberg}, publisher = {Springer}, doi = {10.1007/978-3-540-30301-5}, year = {2008}, keywords = {robotics springer damiencbib}, isbn = {978-3-540-23957-4} } } Obviously, there is a mismatch of the curly brackets. But both bibtex and "make test" are happy. Strange. Maybe a white character is somewhere between. Cheers, Alexandre On 12 Dec 2011, at 12:50, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > > We are using Citezen-Pier to parse the scgbib on our web site. I'm on the Netherlands right now so I cannot check ... > > cheers > on > > --- > Prof. Dr. O. Nierstrasz -- oscar(a)iam.unibe.ch > Software Composition Group -- http://scg.unibe.ch/oscar > University of Bern -- Tel/Fax +41 31 631.4618/3355 > > > On 12 Dec 2011, at 12:26, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> Apparently, Citezen does not parse scg.bib (http://scg.unibe.ch/scgbib) The following expression raises an error: CZBibParser parse: (FileStream fileNamed: '/Users/alexandrebergel/Workspace/scgbib/scg.bib') contents >> >> Is there something obvious I missed? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 12, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] Company/freelance working with Pharo/Seaside

by Marcus Denker

On Dec 12, 2011, at 8:37 PM, Francois Stephany wrote: > Thanks Stef! > >>> Again I repeat it (and I know that you know): we are really interested in making business grows around pharo. > > We know =) > >> It is also important that success stories, even small ones, are shared. >> Having a public list of available consultancy resources would be good, yes. > > Yep, that's the two main points for me. > >> But I guess that half the people on these lists are available for remotely delivered services in one form or another ;-) > > That's true. And I guess there are many silent observers in the list as well. How many people are there on > Pharo-Dev 541 > and Pharo-Users by the way? 256 But both with the ones that are on [Nomail] which can be because of unsubscribe or because they read the list via a gateway. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Dec. 12, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Latest Zinc in Pharo 1.3 with MetacelloConfiguration

by Francois Stephany

Dag Sven, > It would be great if you could update both to the latest versions of all packages. I've updated the configuration to all the latest packages except for Gemstone. Wehn Running the 190 tests I get one failure: ZnClientTests>>testIfFailNonExistingHost Let me now if I did something wrong ;) Cheers, Francois

Dec. 12, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Citezen

by Alexandre Bergel

I haven't checked closely, but it may comes from the bibitem Kort08a: @incollection{Kort08a, author = {Kortenkamp, David and Simmons, Reid}, title = {Robotic systems architectures and programming}, chapter = {8}, booktitle = {Springer Handbook of Robotics}, pages = {187--206}, address = {Berlin, Heidelberg}, publisher = {Springer}, doi = {10.1007/978-3-540-30301-5}, year = {2008}, keywords = {robotics springer damiencbib}, isbn = {978-3-540-23957-4} } } Obviously, there is a mismatch of the curly brackets. But both bibtex and "make test" are happy. Strange. Maybe a white character is somewhere between. Cheers, Alexandre On 12 Dec 2011, at 12:50, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > > We are using Citezen-Pier to parse the scgbib on our web site. I'm on the Netherlands right now so I cannot check ... > > cheers > on > > --- > Prof. Dr. O. Nierstrasz -- oscar(a)iam.unibe.ch > Software Composition Group -- http://scg.unibe.ch/oscar > University of Bern -- Tel/Fax +41 31 631.4618/3355 > > > On 12 Dec 2011, at 12:26, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> Apparently, Citezen does not parse scg.bib (http://scg.unibe.ch/scgbib) The following expression raises an error: CZBibParser parse: (FileStream fileNamed: '/Users/alexandrebergel/Workspace/scgbib/scg.bib') contents >> >> Is there something obvious I missed? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Dec. 12, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Scat - Public Release and announcement

by Francois Stephany

That's pretty cool! Spotted in the announcement: > A project we've been longing to start for a while is a music live-coding environment based solely on engaging blocks of different kinds, which the current working code in Scat should let us build without too much hassle! Tell us more :)

Dec. 12, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] Company/freelance working with Pharo/Seaside

by Francois Stephany

Thanks Stef! >> Again I repeat it (and I know that you know): we are really interested in making business grows around pharo. We know =) > It is also important that success stories, even small ones, are shared. > Having a public list of available consultancy resources would be good, yes. Yep, that's the two main points for me. > But I guess that half the people on these lists are available for remotely delivered services in one form or another ;-) That's true. And I guess there are many silent observers in the list as well. How many people are there on Pharo-Dev and Pharo-Users by the way? Francois

Dec. 12, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] Company/freelance working with Pharo/Seaside

by Diogenes Moreira

+1 i'm fully agree. http://about.me/diogenes.moreira 2011/12/12 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > Thanks diogenes. > > > First we should > - get a consortium > - a list of possible freelancers > - pay an engineer and see. > > Stef > On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Diogenes Moreira wrote: > > > Well, i'll write my answer in english and spanish (Mariano and Esteban, > please help if in my translate loose some think). > > > > > > English > > > > At least for my experience in other technologies management, (My > Smalltalks clients are small companies, and save in any think they can), > the client feel more comfortable if pait to support to a third person. > > That is, for much as a small payment, and answers them one person at a > call center, which has no idea what the answer and just follow the guide > for questions and answers such as "Is the power machine on?" not matter, > they feel more comfortable. > > Especially when you go to the production stage. In 90% of the cases, > calling the provider of the solution to any problem, but they feelmore > secure if you have Oracle, Microsofts, Etc. support > > If you see as the business model of Gemstone Currently, only the > Enterprise license is paid. > > In this sense, I think it would be very important to have a figure as > official support and a supported release, is something like RedHator > PostgreSQL. If the goal is to grow in space Pharo Enterprise. > > > > On the other hand, I agree there is an active community, it is almost > meaningless, but keep in mind that many cases those who manage a technology > area, don't know technology, and need a comfort zone and someone to call at > a crisis > > > > With regard to structure, I think that those who agreed to join the > Consortum have to have a role, I guess the first line (the most common > questions) should be results from a list. After X time, for example 48 > hours, or whatever you define. > > The case must be taken by one of the engineers. All you have to keep in > mind that contact with the subscriber, should be one and only, not to make > noise. > > > > Best > > > > Spanish. > > > > Por lo menos durante mi experiencia de gestiÃ³n en otros tecnologÃa, (Los > clientes que tengo en smalltalk, son PyMes y ahorran en todo lo que pueden > ), el cliente se siente mas cÃ³modo si paga a un tercero, para soporte. > > Es decir, por mas que sea un canon chico, y lo atiende una persona en un > call center, que no tiene idea de lo que esta contestando y solo sigue una > guÃa de preguntas y respuestas tal como, "Tiene encendida la maquina", no > importa, se sienten mas comodos. > > Sobre todo cuando pasan a la etapa de producciÃ³n, en el 90% de los > casos, terminan llamando al proveedor de la soluciÃ³n, pero se sienten mas > seguros, si tiene el soporte de Oracle, Microsofts, Etc. > > Si ven como esta armando el negocio de Gemstone Actualmente, solo la > licencia de uso Enterprise tiene precio. > > En este sentido creo que serÃa muy importante que exista una figura de > soporte oficial y un release soportado, algo asÃ como tiene RedHat o > PostgreSql. Si el objetivo es hacer crecer Pharo en el espacio Enterprise. > > > > Por otra parte estoy de acuerdo existiendo una comunidad activa, esto > casi carece de sentido, pero tengan en cuenta que muchos casos los que > gestionan un Ã¡rea de tecnologÃa, no conocen de ella y necesitan una Ã¡rea de > comodidad y alguien a quien llamar ante una crisis. > > > > Con respecto a la estructura para esto, creo que aquellos que aceptamos > formar parte del Consortum tenemos que tener un rol, supongo que una > primera linea (las preguntas mÃ¡s comunes) deberÃ¡ ser resulta por una lista > y pasado X tiempo, por ejemplo 48 horas, o lo que se defina. > > El caso deberÃ¡ ser tomado por alguno de los ingenieros. Lo Ãºnico que > habrÃa que tener en cuenta que el contacto con el suscriptor, deberÃa ser > uno y solo, para no hacer lios. > > > > Saludos > > > > > > http://about.me/diogenes.moreira > > > > > > 2011/12/12 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > > > On Dec 12, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > > > > > > > On 12 Dec 2011, at 11:28, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > > > >> We need your inputs to build a structure to answer these questions. > > >> So what would help you to make your clients feel more confident? > > >> Again I repeat it (and I know that you know): we are really > interested in making business grows around pharo. > > >> > > >> so do you think that the consortium could have a list of > > >> companies offering services? > > >> freelancers? > > >> â¦ > > >> The consortium should help you. > > > > > > Having an active community where many people participate in making > Pharo better all the time is the best reference. > > > > > > It is also important that success stories, even small ones, are shared. > > > > > > Having a public list of available consultancy resources would be good, > yes. > > > > > > But I guess that half the people on these lists are available for > remotely delivered services in one form or another ;-) > > > > > > Although it is important that the community keeps on growing, we > reached critical mass a long time ago, IMHO. > > > > :) > > Yes but I would like to structure that point :) > > > > > > > > Sven > > > > > > > > >

Dec. 12, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] native boost is the best thing since COGVM

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Dec 12, 2011, at 5:35 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 12 December 2011 17:16, Fernando Olivero <fernando.olivero(a)usi.ch> wrote: >> ok, i see your point. I will refactor back to Javier's approach. >> My rationale was to reify the Cairo library as it is, luckily all the >> other examples work. > > Well, it makes sense to do things like that, when you want a fast and > dirty working stuff. > But a good wrapping makes a lot of difference: there is no need to > indicate that you using a library > through 'self cairo' everywhere. It is just an indirection without any benefit. > > Wrapper classes and their instances should provide a required > functionality through well defined protocols, and then from user's > standpoint it is really > makes no difference who implements them. > That's why we need Athens. Indeed we do want to have cairo dependencies inside our system just encapsulated in their respective canvases. >> If i add the shared pool NBCairoTypes to the NBCairo then NativeBoost >> automatically associates the type? Because i've been putting directly >> "int". Would be nice to have a couple of examples of NB (whenever the >> time is enough for you guys, i know you are busy) >> > > Yes, but these examples were written specifically to show how to wrap > a library in object-oriented way :) > Look at pharo by example book [1], there you can find an explanation > how to use shared pools. > Of course it is far from complete, but my opinion that your > refactoring gives a bad example to future developers. > They should think in terms of objects and place callouts in > corresponding classes with nicely formed protocol(s). > > I am looking forward for you to come, so i can explain things more > directly and easier :) > > [1] https://gforge.inria.fr/scm/viewvc.php/*checkout*/PharoByExampleTwo-Eng/Ali… > >> thanks for the feedback, >> Fernando >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> CairoSamplePrograms>>rectangleAndText >>> does not works, because it uses a following method: >>> >>> NBCairo>>selectFont: aFamily slant: slant weight: aWeight on: aNBCairoContext >>> <primitive: #primitiveNativeCall module: #NativeBoostPlugin> >>> ^self call: #(void cairo_select_font_face (NBCairoContext aNBCairoContext, >>> String aFamily, >>> >>> cairo_font_slant_t slant, >>> >>> cairo_font_weight_t aWeight) ) >>> >>> >>> and during code generation it barks that it unable to resolve >>> 'cairo_font_slant_t' type. >>> Because NBCairo class does not includes a corresponding shared pool >>> (NBCairoTypes). >>> >>> Also, Fernando, i don't like that you put everything into a single >>> class (NBCairo). >>> This is wrong, not object-oriented. The original organization made by >>> Javier was much more closer to my tastes. >>> >>> This approach to wrapping a library is too mechanical. It is much >>> better to place calls at proper place(s) in proper classes, >>> rather than putting everything into a single one. Which means that in >>> this way you are at least 1 message send farther from >>> real function call. >>> But in your case its not even that.. >>> >>> NBCairoPattern>>status >>> ^ self cairo patternStatusOf: self >>> >>> cairo >>> ^ NBCairo default >>> >>> so , it is 2 extra message sends, instead of direct call to foreign function! >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >>> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

Dec. 12, 2011