December 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] decoupling the vm: UI and interpretation

by Fernando Olivero

Hi, a question to the VM maintainers. Would it be hard to decouple the VM, one part handling the object machinery, and the other the UI portion of the current OS. The "UI Vm" would feed the VM with the events, similarly to the current scheme, but there's no need for them to be coupled within the same project. So we could implement separately the "UI Vm", that its implemented in whatever windowed framework we choose ( Cocoa, X11, Windows, etc..). In short, do you think it would worth it to break the VM into two pieces: 1)UI VM: handles the window, the drawing context were Pharo should be drawn into, and announcing user events to the Smalltalk VM. 2)Smalltalk VM: everything else (truly headless). (The two OS processes could communicate via any available IPC(interprocess communication)) Wouldn't it make easier the task of maintaining and enhancing both VMs separately? This idea came up because of the current effort to free Pharo, from the outdated bitmap dependency, into a vectorial user interface framework. Fernando pd: I've been playing around recently with Cocoa, the "smalltalk and morphic" ripoff from apple. And found it relatively easy to come with a "UI VM". What is difficult is to plug into the current scheme.

Dec. 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.3, PBE and lab setups

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

+1 > > Hi Dave, > thank you for this initiative ! > I think this is better if you can use the current git repository to do > that, because you will have continuous interactions with the community > and maybe people will help you. > I think this is better to commit small modifications every day than > commit a lot of modifications at end, that maybe will not be > integrated by the community. > What do you think about that ? > > Regards, > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam > Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011) > http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://doesnotunderstand.org/ >

Dec. 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Newbie observations on use of Metacello

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Noooooooooooooooooooo ! Horrible ugly terrible, Don;t touch our SmalltalkImage :) > But i think there could be a compromise. We may add an extension > method to be able to do something like: > > Smalltalk loadMetacelloProject: #ConfigurationOfXYZ > fromRepository: 'http://squeaksource.com/XYZProject' > > and/or: > > Smalltalk loadMetacelloProject: #ConfigurationOfXYZ > fromRepository: 'http://squeaksource.com/XYZProject' > version: 'x.y.z' > > like that, we can have a cake and eat it too.

Dec. 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Anyone want more timezones in the base image?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Dec 19, 2011, at 7:30 PM, Paul DeBruicker wrote: > Thanks for the feedback. Comments below. > > > Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote >> >> >> I had a quick look at your code and it seems like a logical addition >> (given what TimeZone currently is and what you want to do: interpret tz >> abbreviations). I have 3 remarks/comments: >> >> - the list is currently a dynamic array that is recreated on every access, >> wouldn't a lazy initialized class variable be better ? >> > > Yes of course I would love that but I don't know how to create a class > variable when just using extensions on a class. Is there a way? > Indeed one day we will have to fix that first class instance variable should help. For now I hate that but I use a class initialize method that use addInstanceVarNameâ¦. >> - one other goal of a list of timezones is to present them to the user to >> pick one; for that TimeZone as it stands now is insufficient (there is no >> country/city mapping, which is the most user friendly way to pick one, >> IMHO). it seems a bit wastefull to have such a list and not be able to >> support that goal as well. >> > I agree but that would entail mapping also when each timezone is in effect > in each locale during different times of the year. My Something the Chronos > (http://www.chronos-st.org) package does and I think the TimeZoneDatabase > from Dave Lewis does. My solution is definitely much simpler and less > useful. > > > >> - on Mac OS X and Linux, there is enough data in /usr/share/zoneinfo to >> dynamically load/parse from, if something equivalent existed on Windows, >> we could use that (and benefit from OS level updates to this DB); I know >> it is more work, I'm just thing out loud. >> > > I'm glad you are thinking about it. Dave Lewis's TimeZoneDatabase does > this, I think not on windows but I'm not positive. . It also seems to me > that adopting the TimeZoneDatabase is natural next step for the > TimeZone/Chronology package to go if there's reason to make Pharo better > able to handle cross-timezone issues. But it would need to have a source > for Olson time zone data on Windows. Dave has created a primitive > (primitiveUtcWithOffset) in the interpreterVM that would be good to port to > the CogVM. Chronos is great and exact but also Big in the image. > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Anyone-want-more-timezones-in-the-base-image-tp420639… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Dec. 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] JetBraind support Redline Smalltalk ...

by Marcus Denker

On Dec 20, 2011, at 9:16 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote: > On 12/20/2011 01:32 AM, James Ladd wrote: >> >> Hey everyone, >> So this is the skinny. We've met the >> basic requirements original discussed with Jet Brains early in 2011 for >> Redline Smalltalk support to make it onto their roadmap. >> We need your >> help to get it moved up. Jet Brains has a voting system where registered >> users vote up features they want to see implemented. >> As of today, there >> is now one for Redline support. The next step is pretty simple... >> >> We need everyone to sign in with google/Yahoo or sign up for a Jet Brains account and vote for Redline support.We need you to tweet about it.... to email people about it.... to google + about it. >> ... to stand on the street corner talking about how the world is going to come to an end unless this happens. >> This could be a big deal and your help is greatly appreciated. >> >> http://youtrack.jetbrains.net/issue/IDEA-79069 > > If I was JetBrains I'd be pretty pissed if I got 500 votes for this, > implemented it, and then sold only two copies because nobody voting was > actually considering buying IDEA at any point. > > Don't treat this as "Do you think Smalltalk is cool?", treat this as > "Would you buy IDEA if it had this?". > In addition, I would wait for a 1.0 release *and* to have some real users. Voting for something not yet released looks strange. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

Dec. 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] JetBraind support Redline Smalltalk ...

by Philippe Marschall

On 12/20/2011 01:32 AM, James Ladd wrote: > > Hey everyone, > So this is the skinny. We've met the > basic requirements original discussed with Jet Brains early in 2011 for > Redline Smalltalk support to make it onto their roadmap. > We need your > help to get it moved up. Jet Brains has a voting system where registered > users vote up features they want to see implemented. > As of today, there > is now one for Redline support. The next step is pretty simple... > > We need everyone to sign in with google/Yahoo or sign up for a Jet Brains account and vote for Redline support.We need you to tweet about it.... to email people about it.... to google + about it. > ... to stand on the street corner talking about how the world is going to come to an end unless this happens. > This could be a big deal and your help is greatly appreciated. > > http://youtrack.jetbrains.net/issue/IDEA-79069 If I was JetBrains I'd be pretty pissed if I got 500 votes for this, implemented it, and then sold only two copies because nobody voting was actually considering buying IDEA at any point. Don't treat this as "Do you think Smalltalk is cool?", treat this as "Would you buy IDEA if it had this?". Cheers Philippe

Dec. 20, 2011

[Pharo-project] JetBraind support Redline Smalltalk ...

by James Ladd

Hey everyone, So this is the skinny. We've met the basic requirements original discussed with Jet Brains early in 2011 for Redline Smalltalk support to make it onto their roadmap. We need your help to get it moved up. Jet Brains has a voting system where registered users vote up features they want to see implemented. As of today, there is now one for Redline support. The next step is pretty simple... We need everyone to sign in with google/Yahoo or sign up for a Jet Brains account and vote for Redline support.We need you to tweet about it.... to email people about it.... to google + about it. ... to stand on the street corner talking about how the world is going to come to an end unless this happens. This could be a big deal and your help is greatly appreciated. http://youtrack.jetbrains.net/issue/IDEA-79069

Dec. 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] 1.3, PBE and lab setups

by Serge Stinckwich

2011/12/20 Dave Mason <dmason(a)mason-rose.ca>: > For those following along at home, we are definitely doing the Advanced Algorithms course in Smalltalk using Pharo 1.3, so this has become a critical path for me - see below. > > On Dec 15, 2011, at 2:24 AM, Serge Stinckwich wrote: > >> 2011/12/15 Dave Mason <dmason(a)mason-rose.ca>: >>> Additionally, the PBE book doesn't play well with 1.3 (things that the book >>> says die when you try them). >>> >>> is the PBE book getting updated to work with a vanilla 1.3/1.4 image? >> >> There is no plan at the moment to do that, but you could help adapt >> the Pharo Book to the new images. >> Maybe we can have branches for each version of Pharo ? pharo1.2, >> pharo1.3, etc â¦ > > I've imported the git repo into a local mercurial one, and we'll work from that. > > On Dec 15, 2011, at 05:17, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > >> Sure, that would be great, but please be aware that you must also check that the examples (and tests) work as advertised. >> >> If someone wants to do this please contact me, and I can give some advice and help ... > > I have 2 grad students who are working through PBE and will be TAs for the course. Â They will work through each of the examples in 1.3 and correct discrepancies. Â I'll check for language and wording, and commit the results. Â I'm hoping this will be nearly complete by early January. Â I'll commit the results back to github. Hi Dave, thank you for this initiative ! I think this is better if you can use the current git repository to do that, because you will have continuous interactions with the community and maybe people will help you. I think this is better to commit small modifications every day than commit a lot of modifications at end, that maybe will not be integrated by the community. What do you think about that ? Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam Matsuno Laboratory, Kyoto University, Japan (until 12/2011) http://www.mechatronics.me.kyoto-u.ac.jp/ Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://doesnotunderstand.org/

Dec. 20, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Newbie observations on use of Metacello

by Dale Henrichs

Dec. 19, 2011

Re: [Pharo-project] Newbie observations on use of Metacello

by Igor Stasenko

i'd like to comment the parts i like (not all) :) > Based on the above points, it would be nice to have... > > a> Â Metacello configuration: 'SqueakDBX' load > > rather than... > > b> Gofer new > b> Â Â squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > b> Â Â package: 'ConfigurationOfSqueakDBX'; > b> Â Â load. > b> ConfigurationOfSqueakDBX project latestVersion load. > yes , that would be nice. except from one thing: your image must have metacello installed. While things is done in a way, that you don't need to have it in order to load a project from your configuration. i.e. one can load ConfigurationOfXYZ into image without metacello and then run it, without caring if Metacello installed or not (because configuration takes care of it). But i think there could be a compromise. We may add an extension method to be able to do something like: Smalltalk loadMetacelloProject: #ConfigurationOfXYZ fromRepository: 'http://squeaksource.com/XYZProject' and/or: Smalltalk loadMetacelloProject: #ConfigurationOfXYZ fromRepository: 'http://squeaksource.com/XYZProject' version: 'x.y.z' like that, we can have a cake and eat it too. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Dec. 19, 2011