September 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [OT] NO-SLQ vs RDBMS Re: FluidDB API for Pharo

by merlyn＠stonehenge.com

>>>>> "Mariano" == Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> writes: Mariano> Hi. Can someone with experience in "No-SQL" databases explain me the Mariano> differences/advantages over a RDBMS and doing something like: Mariano> create table database (key varchar() , value varchar() ) I've given a talk a few times about "forget the ORM". The slides are up on http://www.slideshare.net/RandalSchwartz/forget-the-orm The key thing that separates a lot of these newer databases is that you can't have all three of consistency, availability, and performance at once... you have to sacrifice something. Traditional SQL databases favored consistency over everything, but who cares if your blog page says "read the 6 comments on this item" for a couple of seconds when there are really 7 because one just got added. The new databases give options for higher availability or performance at the cost of consistency. Some, like Riak (interviewed at http://twit.tv/floss129) actually let you select on each request how consistent you want the results, thus controlling how fast you get the response. Thus, for the front page of a blog, you can say "give me a result that any 1 of the 3 replicas has", but when you finally drill into the comments, you say "give me a result that all 3 replicas agree on". Of course, these are all *eventually* consistent on the order of tens or hundreds of milliseconds, but by allowing "almost correct" results, things are a lot zippier. (It also works that way on write... you can say "come back when any 1 replica says it has it" or "come back only when all 3 replicas confirm write".) So, it's not so much that you get schemaless key/value store (although that's a frequent feature)... it's that these aren't traditional databases in a lot of ways. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn(a)stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

Sept. 26, 2010

[Pharo-project] Advanced keyboard access with OB

by Simon Denier

http://www.lukas-renggli.ch/blog/ob-completion-dialog Looks great, thanks Lukas! -- Simon

Sept. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] In Smalltalk you can't loose code... hum

by Chris Muller

> But in a workspace or in the script manager that is not true. Statements in workspace that were ever invoked with "do it" et al are recoverable from the changes log. But this is one feature of workspaces, they are _very_ transient. I have sometimes found a domain class' class-side method category, "scripts" or "utilities" on relevant domain class-side, helps for this recoverability while also co-locating the useful scripts with the relevant class. In extreme case, a [App-Name-Here]Utilities class can be a good script holder. > Actually it is a feature request: You can't loose code even when you are working in the script browser. > > Because in the script manager has a save capability, would it be difficult to write the changes into the changes files ? > > Francois > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 26, 2010

[Pharo-project] [ANN] Glamour on Seaside - first version

by Tudor Girba

Hi, We are happy to announce the first version of Glamour on Seaside. This work was carried out by Andrei Vasile Chis and was sponsored by ESUG. The project offers a Seaside-based rendering of Glamour browsers. In other words, once you have a browser in Glamour, you can now simply display it on the web. You can obtain the code in two ways: - Nightly built image: http://hudson.moosetechnology.org/job/moose-with-glamour-seaside/lastSucces… - Metacello configuration loadable in Pharo 1.1 (not Core) Gofer new squeaksource: 'Glamour'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGlamourSeaside'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfGlamourSeaside) loadDefault. A couple of examples are available on the Moose server: http://online.moosetechnology.org/glamour/basicExamples (a number of example browsers) http://online.moosetechnology.org/moose/metaBrowser (a browser for the meta-model of Moose) Several developments are planned for the near future, so stay tuned for more news. We would highly appreciate any kind of feedback. Cheers, Andrei and Doru

Sept. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] In Smalltalk you can't loose code... hum

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Sep 26, 2010, at 8:59 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 26 September 2010 21:53, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> BTW, now we have Igor's method trailers we can start playing with more than >>>> two source files, e.g. /not/ appending a Monticello package's source to the >>>> changes file, but merely adding it to a special directory, e.g. sources. >>> >>> Yes. I told about potential use of new trailers, where we can implement a model >>> for storing/retrieving source code from any kind of storage. >>> >>> Unfortunately it requires some remodelling of system's source-code >>> management system, >>> to get rid of hard-wired SourceFiles code and add an abstract layer >>> for source management. >>> So we could implement different source managers, where .source and >>> .changes will be just default one. >>> >>> One of my ideas was to use CouchDB for storing everything there. It >>> opens quite interesting opportunities, >>> like being able to browse a history of some particular method up to >>> 1.0 squeak release :) >>> >>> @Stef: add this to pharo todo list :) >> >> but this one is on the path of veronica phd so we should do it fast. >> Veronica likes to work under pressure so this is good. >> > Haha.. so, when i described it sometimes ago you told that this good > for phd thesis, > you already had a plan & assignee for it :) I do not remember. doing too much stuff. Now the PhD of veronica is not one source code management. The PhD of veronica is about: how to help merging. How could we add a bit of semantics. In this topic we would like - to get changes characterization (cf ESUg talk) - to know the potential impact of a change - compare feature in the past and feature so having a good infrastructure will help everybody. We should be able to write nice and short queries to study the past and the present. Stef > > Nice. > >> stef >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] ECUntypedModelTest >> testNarrowWith failing

by Nicolas Cellier

2010/9/26 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > This fails where it does: > > self assert: count == model entries size. > Â Â Â self assert: count > 100. > > > since model entries size -> 85 > > > Of course, if I change the test to > > self assert: count == model entries size. > Â Â Â self assert: count > 80. > Hi Mariano, by the way, why using == and not simply = ? Nicolas > it works :) > > Romain ? > > thanks > > mariano > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] In Smalltalk you can't loose code... hum

by Igor Stasenko

On 26 September 2010 21:53, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> BTW, now we have Igor's method trailers we can start playing with more than >>> two source files, e.g. /not/ appending a Monticello package's source to the >>> changes file, but merely adding it to a special directory, e.g. sources. >> >> Yes. I told about potential use of new trailers, where we can implement a model >> for storing/retrieving source code from any kind of storage. >> >> Unfortunately it requires some remodelling of system's source-code >> management system, >> to get rid of hard-wired SourceFiles code and add an abstract layer >> for source management. >> So we could implement different source managers, where .source and >> .changes will be just default one. >> >> One of my ideas was to use CouchDB for storing everything there. It >> opens quite interesting opportunities, >> like being able to browse a history of some particular method up to >> 1.0 squeak release :) >> >> @Stef: add this to pharo todo list :) > > but this one is on the path of veronica phd so we should do it fast. > Veronica likes to work under pressure so this is good. > Haha.. so, when i described it sometimes ago you told that this good for phd thesis, you already had a plan & assignee for it :) Nice. > stef > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Sept. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] In Smalltalk you can't loose code... hum

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> BTW, now we have Igor's method trailers we can start playing with more than >> two source files, e.g. /not/ appending a Monticello package's source to the >> changes file, but merely adding it to a special directory, e.g. sources. > > Yes. I told about potential use of new trailers, where we can implement a model > for storing/retrieving source code from any kind of storage. > > Unfortunately it requires some remodelling of system's source-code > management system, > to get rid of hard-wired SourceFiles code and add an abstract layer > for source management. > So we could implement different source managers, where .source and > .changes will be just default one. > > One of my ideas was to use CouchDB for storing everything there. It > opens quite interesting opportunities, > like being able to browse a history of some particular method up to > 1.0 squeak release :) > > @Stef: add this to pharo todo list :) but this one is on the path of veronica phd so we should do it fast. Veronica likes to work under pressure so this is good. stef

Sept. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] In Smalltalk you can't loose code... hum

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I do not know exactly what you mean. We want a good, working and flexible system. We just a problem of time. Stef On Sep 26, 2010, at 7:11 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Keeping things out of the change log? Does that imply that all code must be packaged? It more or less is already, though not always meaningfully. When repackaging a class or method, do you plan to take the code out of the old package's log and put it in the new one? Dolphin uses "real" packages, but it is possible to have unpackaged code - I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. One day, I would like to see Pharo have a *hierarchy* browser as good as Dolphin's. I think it could be built absent an ability to have unpackaged classes, but I would not want to see it sabotaged by design. Probably a bigger risk would be having work lost by gaps in the packaging system when a catch-all change log would have held onto it. > > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Eliot Miranda [eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 11:18 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] In Smalltalk you can't loose code... hum > > On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 2:36 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr<mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr>> wrote: >> >>> >>> Because in the script manager has a save capability, would it be difficult to write the changes into the changes files ? >> >> the problem is that the change files logic is old and it works 'well' for what it should but extending it will break other part. >> This is why slowly we will have to think to get something better. >> >> Do you mean improving the change scanner parsing or throwing away and going for something different? >> > > Hi eliot > > our vision is that we would like to have > - all the code of all the squeak and pharo version in a queryable service available from the web. > for that we want a source code metamodel a la ginsu or famix > Use this metamodel to aggregate several meta models: pseudo class/rb > make sure that when possible this model as a compative API with the one of classes and friends => tools reuse > Veronica is working on that. > Hernan will probably join. > May be Colin should join. We could have a nice momentum. > > - for the changes we would like to have something else than a chunk format > because invoking the parser to know if we are manipulating a class definition is bad (with token at: 2 do that > and token at: 3 do that). > > xml works for VisualWorks; it's the obvious choice. The great thing is that if you look at the VisualWorks schema you can learn from their mistakes. IIRC the schema for methods is broken because the selector is not a property (? I don't know xml terminology) of a method, e.g. in VW you see > > <method>this: hic is: hic a: hic selector: hic ^self tooMuchBeer</method> > > but this would be much mire useful: > > <method selector="this:is:a:selector:">this: hic is: hic a: hic selector: hic ^self tooMuchBeer</method> > > > > Again it will take time but we should have a good (why not 'exquise') infrastructure so that we extend and build new tool > easily. > > Its not a lot of work. ALso VW has a simple scheme for supporting both old chunk format and "new" xml format. > > BTW, now we have Igor's method trailers we can start playing with more than two source files, e.g. /not/ appending a Monticello package's source to the changes file, but merely adding it to a special directory, e.g. sources. > > Stef > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] In Smalltalk you can't loose code... hum

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > > Hi eliot > > our vision is that we would like to have > - all the code of all the squeak and pharo version in a queryable service available from the web. > for that we want a source code metamodel a la ginsu or famix > Use this metamodel to aggregate several meta models: pseudo class/rb > make sure that when possible this model as a compative API with the one of classes and friends => tools reuse > Veronica is working on that. > Hernan will probably join. > May be Colin should join. We could have a nice momentum. > > - for the changes we would like to have something else than a chunk format > because invoking the parser to know if we are manipulating a class definition is bad (with token at: 2 do that > and token at: 3 do that). > > xml works for VisualWorks; it's the obvious choice. The great thing is that if you look at the VisualWorks schema you can learn from their mistakes. IIRC the schema for methods is broken because the selector is not a property (? I don't know xml terminology) of a method, e.g. in VW you see > > <method>this: hic is: hic a: hic selector: hic ^self tooMuchBeer</method> > > but this would be much mire useful: > > <method selector="this:is:a:selector:">this: hic is: hic a: hic selector: hic ^self tooMuchBeer</method> I know I told you that a while ago when you were still at cincom (probably around 2002 or 2003 when doru started his phd :) In the way vw does it defeats the purpose of having a markup language. Now XML is good when we do not have a language syntax that can mimic a declarative language. I was always amazed that tweak could use xml to represent CField instead of using plain CField new name: #nameOfVariable; ... So instead of xml (which requires to have an XML parser at end. We could have MethodDefinition selector: #on: ; class: #Bar; body: 'on: aStream aStream nextPutAll: 'jlkjlkj'. ^ self'. this way no need for a bad parser. > Its not a lot of work. ALso VW has a simple scheme for supporting both old chunk format and "new" xml format. Probably the problem is that I would love to have 3 days in a row to code and be concentrated. And we cannot change eveyrthing at the same time. > BTW, now we have Igor's method trailers we can start playing with more than two source files, e.g. /not/ appending a Monticello package's source to the changes file, but merely adding it to a special directory, e.g. sources. I have to digest that :) > > Stef > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 26, 2010