September 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [Off Topic] What are you using to write reports?

by Yang Ha Nguyen

On Wed, Sep 01, 2010 at 11:07:51AM -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >I understood you; I don't want others misunderstanding you; please reply to Friedrich so it is clear. In the good old days, before Novel and Microsoft made most of the email clients in use, there were ways to properly quote text with attribution to the authors in a way that worked. BTW, I don't top-post because I think it's a good idea, I do it because our garbage email system can't do otherwise (I've looked, the options don't exist). I've been stuck with one or another broken system for years now :( But, it's **standard** ;) > Wilhelm, Got it, thank you very much :-). Regards, -- Yang Nguyen Web log: http://cmpitg.wordpress.com/ Life is a hack

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] WebClient-Core port to Pharo 1.1 final

by laurent laffont

2010/9/1 Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez <miguel.coba(a)gmail.com> > El miÃ©, 01-09-2010 a las 15:44 +0900, Serge Stinckwich escribiÃ³: > > Don't confuse open-source software with free software: > > > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html > > I think that this has already gone off-topic. The original argument was > that Andreas wanted to open source it (MIT likely) and at the same time > prohibiting forking of the codebase. > My point was that if it was open source or free software then the > forking was a granted right. > If he wanted to avoid it then he couldn't claim is free software or open > source. > > With MIT you can fork (of course) but also with GPL (like the > emacs/xemacs fork). > > Let not bring this thread in a free software vs open source war. > +1 Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ > > Cheers > > > > > > 2010/8/31 Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez <miguel.coba(a)gmail.com>: > > > El mar, 31-08-2010 a las 00:43 +0200, Levente Uzonyi escribiÃ³: > > >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez wrote: > > >> > > >> > El mar, 31-08-2010 a las 00:25 +0200, Levente Uzonyi escribiÃ³: > > >> > On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Friedrich Dominicus wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> writes: > > >> > > > >> > > On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > >>>> > > >> > >>>> I suggest that the people that want and know, group together > and build an open-source one. > > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> Why do you have to have your "own" library? > > >> > >> > > >> > >> Did I say "pharo library"? reread carefully I said an > "open-source one". > > >> > > > > >> > > What I get from Andreas' words is that he's willing to make it > open > > >> > > source if it won't be forked. > > >> > Hm I think this is impossible. If it's OS it's up to whomever get > its > > >> > hand on it. Or am I mistaken? > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Just think about GPL, it's open source, but you can't fork the code > if you > > >> > don't release your changes as GPL too. > > >> > > >> "I don't get it. If it is open source then is forkable. Period. > > >> If it is a special case like GPL, it add some other restriction, like > > >> you can't redistribute the new code without it being also GPL. You can > > >> fork it and not using GPL for the new changes, the restriction is that > > >> you can't redistribute it." > > >> > > >> From wikipedia: "Open-source software (OSS) is computer software that > is > > >> available in source code form for which the source code and certain > other > > >> rights normally reserved for copyright holders are provided under a > > >> software license that permits users to study, change, and improve the > > >> software." > > >> > > >> There's nothing about forking or redistributing here. I could make a > > >> license that says: you can study, change and improve the software, but > > >> you can't redistribute it without my permission. > > >> > > >> "But the fact remains that it is forkable always. If you don't want it > > >> forkable, then use other non open source license." > > >> > > >> See above. You could "fork" it, but that wouldn't be open source > anymore. > > >> > > > > > > You must be kidding. The freedom to fork is a essential right of open > > > source software: > > > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10379280-16.html > > > > > > http://asay.blogspot.com/2006/10/wither-right-to-fork.html > > > > > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > > > http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > > http://www.opensource.org/node/357 > > > > > > period. > > > > > >> > > >> Levente > > >> > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Levente > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Regards > > >> > Friedrich > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim > > >> > Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Pharo-project mailing list > > >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > >> > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project > mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Miguel CobÃ¡ > > >> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Pharo-project mailing list > > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > >> _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing > list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > -- > > > Miguel CobÃ¡ > > > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > > > -- > > Serge Stinckwich > > UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam > > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > > http://doesnotunderstand.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > Miguel CobÃ¡ > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Problems in loading GLORP

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Alberto Bacchelli <alberto.bacchelli(a)usi.ch>wrote: > Hi, > > By following both Sven's and Mariano's suggestions > (I am referencing see this thread [1]), I am trying to > load GLORP in Pharo. (On a MacOSX 10.6.4, I didn't > tried on other machines). > > However, I am not able to complete the loading process. > I tried with both a fresh Pharo image [2] and a Moose development > one. I tried both by using the metacello instructions in SqueakDBX [3], > and by using Sven's script [4]. > In any configuration, when it loads GLORP, the loading process > freezes in "Compiling methods". > > For example, by using Sven's script, I am able to > run the first three statements, but the fourth freezes > everything: > > (1) Scanner allowUnderscoreAsAssignment: true. > (2) Gofer new squeaksource: 'PostgresV2'; package: 'PostgresV2'; load. > (3) Scanner allowUnderscoreAsAssignment: false. > (4) Gofer new squeaksource: 'SqueakDBX'; package: 'Glorp'; load. > > Similarly, it freezes following the metacello instructions > in the SqueakDBX site. > > It works here. BTW, last week I wrote a metacello configuration group to load GlorpDBX with the native postgres driver. You can evaluate first: Gofer new squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; package: 'ConfigurationOfGlorpDBX'; load. and then (ConfigurationOfGlorpDBX project version: '1.2') load: 'All with PostgreSQL native cheers mariano > Could you please tell me how you are able to load GLORP? > > Thank you. > > Cheers, > Alberto > > > [1] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2010-June/028664.html > [2] http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/stable > [3] http://squeakdbx.org/Installation > [4] > http://www.squeaksource.com/ADayAtTheBeach/GlorpPostgreSQLPharoLoader-SvenV… > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] programmatically update a Pharo image

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

what I feared ['You should not see me....' displayProgressAt: World activeHand position from: 0 to: 100 during: [:bar | 1 to: 100 by: 10 do: [:x | bar value: x. (Delay forMilliseconds: 200) wait]]]valueSuppressingAllMessages and we see it. So I open a ticket to make sure that we will not forget :) Stef On Sep 1, 2010, at 6:07 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > I have the impression that valueSuppressingAllMessages capture ProvideAnswerNotification but > It is not clear to me that he works for ProgressInitiationException which is used by > 'Downloading updates' displayProgressAt: World activeHand position from: 0 to: urls size during: > > do you have any experience with that? > > I will try but who knows :) > > Stef > > > On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Yanni Chiu wrote: > >> Cyrille Delaunay wrote: >>> Ok, thanks :) >>> The problem now is that 'Utilities updateFromServer' open a window to inform the user, waiting for the user to click on ok. In my case, I want to use such a method to update the image from a script (for example launched from hudson). But this 'inform' window stop the execution of the script >> >> Try: >> >> [Utilities updateFromServer] valueSuppressingAllMessages. >> >> FWIW, I used to run this update on my Hudson server, but I eventually disabled it, in favour of manually updating to the latest image download from https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1299. There was always some issue that came up, that required manual intervention. Now that more people are doing automated builds, you may have a different experience. >> >> With the new link at: >> http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable-core >> >> it should be possible to automate the image update, but I've not tried yet. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Problems in loading GLORP

by Alberto Bacchelli

On 9/1/10 5:26 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > freeze like what? It seems there was something wrong with my setup: Now I tried it again to prepare a screenshot and it works. Sorry. Alberto

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] WebClient-Core port to Pharo 1.1 final

by Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez

El miÃ©, 01-09-2010 a las 15:44 +0900, Serge Stinckwich escribiÃ³: > Don't confuse open-source software with free software: > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html I think that this has already gone off-topic. The original argument was that Andreas wanted to open source it (MIT likely) and at the same time prohibiting forking of the codebase. My point was that if it was open source or free software then the forking was a granted right. If he wanted to avoid it then he couldn't claim is free software or open source. With MIT you can fork (of course) but also with GPL (like the emacs/xemacs fork). Let not bring this thread in a free software vs open source war. Cheers > > > 2010/8/31 Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez <miguel.coba(a)gmail.com>: > > El mar, 31-08-2010 a las 00:43 +0200, Levente Uzonyi escribiÃ³: > >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez wrote: > >> > >> > El mar, 31-08-2010 a las 00:25 +0200, Levente Uzonyi escribiÃ³: > >> > On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Friedrich Dominicus wrote: > >> > > >> > > Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> writes: > >> > > >> > > On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> > > > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> I suggest that the people that want and know, group together and build an open-source one. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Why do you have to have your "own" library? > >> > >> > >> > >> Did I say "pharo library"? reread carefully I said an "open-source one". > >> > > > >> > > What I get from Andreas' words is that he's willing to make it open > >> > > source if it won't be forked. > >> > Hm I think this is impossible. If it's OS it's up to whomever get its > >> > hand on it. Or am I mistaken? > >> > > >> > > >> > Just think about GPL, it's open source, but you can't fork the code if you > >> > don't release your changes as GPL too. > >> > >> "I don't get it. If it is open source then is forkable. Period. > >> If it is a special case like GPL, it add some other restriction, like > >> you can't redistribute the new code without it being also GPL. You can > >> fork it and not using GPL for the new changes, the restriction is that > >> you can't redistribute it." > >> > >> From wikipedia: "Open-source software (OSS) is computer software that is > >> available in source code form for which the source code and certain other > >> rights normally reserved for copyright holders are provided under a > >> software license that permits users to study, change, and improve the > >> software." > >> > >> There's nothing about forking or redistributing here. I could make a > >> license that says: you can study, change and improve the software, but > >> you can't redistribute it without my permission. > >> > >> "But the fact remains that it is forkable always. If you don't want it > >> forkable, then use other non open source license." > >> > >> See above. You could "fork" it, but that wouldn't be open source anymore. > >> > > > > You must be kidding. The freedom to fork is a essential right of open > > source software: > > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10379280-16.html > > > > http://asay.blogspot.com/2006/10/wither-right-to-fork.html > > > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > > http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd > > http://www.opensource.org/node/357 > > > > period. > > > >> > >> Levente > >> > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > Levente > >> > > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > Friedrich > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim > >> > Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Pharo-project mailing list > >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> > >> -- > >> Miguel CobÃ¡ > >> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > > Miguel CobÃ¡ > > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://doesnotunderstand.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] programmatically update a Pharo image

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I have the impression that valueSuppressingAllMessages capture ProvideAnswerNotification but It is not clear to me that he works for ProgressInitiationException which is used by 'Downloading updates' displayProgressAt: World activeHand position from: 0 to: urls size during: do you have any experience with that? I will try but who knows :) Stef On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Yanni Chiu wrote: > Cyrille Delaunay wrote: >> Ok, thanks :) >> The problem now is that 'Utilities updateFromServer' open a window to inform the user, waiting for the user to click on ok. In my case, I want to use such a method to update the image from a script (for example launched from hudson). But this 'inform' window stop the execution of the script > > Try: > > [Utilities updateFromServer] valueSuppressingAllMessages. > > FWIW, I used to run this update on my Hudson server, but I eventually disabled it, in favour of manually updating to the latest image download from https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1299. There was always some issue that came up, that required manual intervention. Now that more people are doing automated builds, you may have a different experience. > > With the new link at: > http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable-core > > it should be possible to automate the image update, but I've not tried yet. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] programmatically update a Pharo image

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks yanni for pharo and moose we want to have automated builds. This will kick our ass so I'm sure that the system will be better after :) Stef On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Yanni Chiu wrote: > Cyrille Delaunay wrote: >> Ok, thanks :) >> The problem now is that 'Utilities updateFromServer' open a window to inform the user, waiting for the user to click on ok. In my case, I want to use such a method to update the image from a script (for example launched from hudson). But this 'inform' window stop the execution of the script > > Try: > > [Utilities updateFromServer] valueSuppressingAllMessages. > > FWIW, I used to run this update on my Hudson server, but I eventually disabled it, in favour of manually updating to the latest image download from https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1299. There was always some issue that came up, that required manual intervention. Now that more people are doing automated builds, you may have a different experience. > > With the new link at: > http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable-core > > it should be possible to automate the image update, but I've not tried yet. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] programmatically update a Pharo image

by Yanni Chiu

Cyrille Delaunay wrote: > Ok, thanks :) > The problem now is that 'Utilities updateFromServer' open a window to > inform the user, waiting for the user to click on ok. In my case, I want > to use such a method to update the image from a script (for example > launched from hudson). But this 'inform' window stop the execution of > the script Try: [Utilities updateFromServer] valueSuppressingAllMessages. FWIW, I used to run this update on my Hudson server, but I eventually disabled it, in favour of manually updating to the latest image download from https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1299. There was always some issue that came up, that required manual intervention. Now that more people are doing automated builds, you may have a different experience. With the new link at: http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/unstable-core it should be possible to automate the image update, but I've not tried yet.

Sept. 1, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Distinguishing system and user objects

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Thanks for the help guys. > Actually I thought of having something as simple as > > aClass isSystemDefault we could do it at the class level I think that we should get some static metadata soon or later > then having more control detecting changes (to system or user > objects). One may implement in a browser a Warning mode that > prevents/protect from mistakes, once I've implemented an extension > method in Behavior with the **same selector** of an existing method, > and the tools didn't helped me to detect it. > > Another use case is for helping future tools to know which changes to track. > > HernÃ¡n > > 2010/9/1 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> In scriptLoader you get the list of all the core packages with version. >> I will start to play with metacello to do that instead of doing everything :) >> >> >> On Aug 31, 2010, at 10:29 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: >> >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> Given any Pharo image and a (any) package or class category, how do >>> you find if the package/class category belongs to the official image >>> release? >>> Thanks, >>> >>> HernÃ¡n >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Sept. 1, 2010