August 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Should I be able to hang my pharo 1.1 image so easily?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks david for the pointer. Yes we should investigate that again. On Aug 18, 2010, at 3:20 AM, David T. Lewis wrote: > Probably completely off the mark but just in case it jogs someone's > memory, the fixes for this issue that went into Squeak 3.9 were > tracked on Mantis here: > > http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=1041 > > Possibly one of the patches got undone by accident? > > HTH, > Dave > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:28:31PM +0200, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >> I heard about that problem too... >> >> In Squeak 3.9 I can interrupt [[true] whileTrue] fork, but not in Pharo. >> >> Has anybody an idea why this doesn't work anymore? >> >> Adrian >> >> On Aug 17, 2010, at 16:27 , Henrik Johansen wrote: >> >>> >>> On Aug 17, 2010, at 3:38 20PM, TimM wrote: >>> >>>> Henrik Johansen wrote: >>>> >>>>> Is this code run in a separate process? >>>>> UserInterruptHandler>>handleUserInterrupt specifically interrupts the UI-process, rather than f.ex. the last process consuming cycles. >>>>> Whether that is desired behaviour or not, is up for discussion :) >>>> >>>> I'm not sure - as its seaside is that a UI-process (I don't think it is). By browser - I mean web browser. And then I notice my cpu spike and if I switch back to squeak, its hosed. >>>> >>>> Tim >>> There's only one UI Process (tm) in Pharo/Squeak, responsible for updating the UI, running doits, etc. >>> >>> Not quite sure how Seaside does its magic when requests are coming in, but if it forks of their processing with priority >= UIProcess priority, it will indeed "hose" the image with no means of recovering using Cmd-dot in the case of an infinite loop. >>> >>> Try the following from a workspace to illustrate: >>> >>> "Interruptable with Cmd-dot" >>> [true ] whileTrue. >>> >>> "Forking at lower than UI process, so UI stays responsive, but does not interrupt runaway process with Cmd-dot (you can terminate it using process browser)" >>> [[true ] whileTrue] forkAt: Processor activePriority - 1 "Code run from a workspace will run in the UI process, so active priority will be the UI process priority" >>> >>> "Forking at same as UI process, Cmd-dot interrups UI process rather than runaway, but debugger is (almost) never displayed since runaway process takes almost all cycles" >>> [[true] whileTrue] fork "Fork forks of the process at same priority as active process" >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Henry >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Load OB in Pharo 1.2

by Marcus Denker

On Aug 17, 2010, at 11:16 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > Or you would keep the empty but deprecated class > PluggableButtonMorphPlus in the image and make everybody happy :-) > Yes, let's do that... Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

Aug. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] HTML parser (again)

by laurent laffont

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com>wrote: > I've been looking for a nice and fast HTML parser. > I've found Zulq Alam's Soup > (http://www.squeaksource.com/@vHckXt8_6gVtXFxy/XMrjDbIs) it looks nice > but it's way too slow for me (takes 5 sec to parse the page, my > current lisp parser takes about 1 sec for that.) > I found another one, Todd Blanchard's HTML and CSS parser > (http://www.squeaksource.com/@iMgHmTKVxU00wEdz/A0jkqk71) but I > couldn't load it into Pharo 1.1 or Squeak 4.1. > It complains about some syntax error and leaves the progress bar which > I can't kill... > I wonder if anyone (Todd?) can take a look at the parser and figure > out how to fix it? > > What other options I have for an HTML parser? > Looking at Pharo speed I wonder if there is any way to optimize it? Is > JIT or some other speed optimization in plans for Pharo/Squeak? > What do you need to do ? There's XMLSupport http://www.squeaksource.com/XMLSupport.html Scamper might have a standalone HTML parser http://www.squeaksource.com/Scamper.html The CogVM has JIT. Laurent. > > Thank you, > Andrei > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Aug. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] We want your photo

by laurent laffont

Added Oscar. Laurent On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 1:10 PM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Added Gary > > Laurent > > > On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 10:12 PM, laurent laffont < > laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> for http://pharo-project.org/community/contributors >> >> and a little description of your Pharo usage and / or contributions. >> >> Thanks, >> <http://pharo-project.org/community/contributors> >> Laurent Laffont >> >> http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ >> http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ >> > >

Aug. 18, 2010

[Pharo-project] HTML parser (again)

by Andrei Stebakov

I've been looking for a nice and fast HTML parser. I've found Zulq Alam's Soup (http://www.squeaksource.com/@vHckXt8_6gVtXFxy/XMrjDbIs) it looks nice but it's way too slow for me (takes 5 sec to parse the page, my current lisp parser takes about 1 sec for that.) I found another one, Todd Blanchard's HTML and CSS parser (http://www.squeaksource.com/@iMgHmTKVxU00wEdz/A0jkqk71) but I couldn't load it into Pharo 1.1 or Squeak 4.1. It complains about some syntax error and leaves the progress bar which I can't kill... I wonder if anyone (Todd?) can take a look at the parser and figure out how to fix it? What other options I have for an HTML parser? Looking at Pharo speed I wonder if there is any way to optimize it? Is JIT or some other speed optimization in plans for Pharo/Squeak? Thank you, Andrei

Aug. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Should I be able to hang my pharo 1.1 image so easily?

by David T. Lewis

Probably completely off the mark but just in case it jogs someone's memory, the fixes for this issue that went into Squeak 3.9 were tracked on Mantis here: http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=1041 Possibly one of the patches got undone by accident? HTH, Dave On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:28:31PM +0200, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > I heard about that problem too... > > In Squeak 3.9 I can interrupt [[true] whileTrue] fork, but not in Pharo. > > Has anybody an idea why this doesn't work anymore? > > Adrian > > On Aug 17, 2010, at 16:27 , Henrik Johansen wrote: > > > > > On Aug 17, 2010, at 3:38 20PM, TimM wrote: > > > >> Henrik Johansen wrote: > >> > >>> Is this code run in a separate process? > >>> UserInterruptHandler>>handleUserInterrupt specifically interrupts the UI-process, rather than f.ex. the last process consuming cycles. > >>> Whether that is desired behaviour or not, is up for discussion :) > >> > >> I'm not sure - as its seaside is that a UI-process (I don't think it is). By browser - I mean web browser. And then I notice my cpu spike and if I switch back to squeak, its hosed. > >> > >> Tim > > There's only one UI Process (tm) in Pharo/Squeak, responsible for updating the UI, running doits, etc. > > > > Not quite sure how Seaside does its magic when requests are coming in, but if it forks of their processing with priority >= UIProcess priority, it will indeed "hose" the image with no means of recovering using Cmd-dot in the case of an infinite loop. > > > > Try the following from a workspace to illustrate: > > > > "Interruptable with Cmd-dot" > > [true ] whileTrue. > > > > "Forking at lower than UI process, so UI stays responsive, but does not interrupt runaway process with Cmd-dot (you can terminate it using process browser)" > > [[true ] whileTrue] forkAt: Processor activePriority - 1 "Code run from a workspace will run in the UI process, so active priority will be the UI process priority" > > > > "Forking at same as UI process, Cmd-dot interrups UI process rather than runaway, but debugger is (almost) never displayed since runaway process takes almost all cycles" > > [[true] whileTrue] fork "Fork forks of the process at same priority as active process" > > > > > > Cheers, > > Henry > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 18, 2010

[Pharo-project] Streams - a first draft

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Hello all, Dolphin's streams signal errors on exhaustion, with a few clear exceptions. I quickly learned to appreciate the clarity. If I tell a stream to read 10 bytes, there is probably a reason for it, and I might want to be alerted if there are not that many bytes remaining, or in the case of a socket, I might want it to wait until there are that many or until the connection is broken. If a file cannot be opened, I want to know then, rather than after the offending method has returned and I have to hunt down what went wrong. What is you want at most ten bytes? There is a way to get that: #nextAvailable:. It and friends offer clear permission from you the programmer to the computer to truncate and return. This approach sometimes requires an #atEnd check or two, but it is worth the effort. I have described the problems and solutions here: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ProposalForConsistentStreamsBehavior http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/StreamsForRobustSoftware #next is not portable, and is IMHO just plain broken on Squeak, Pharo, and VW. #next: does not work as advertised on some platforms. But there is nothing to stop me (and you) from writing code in terms of selectors such as #nextOne and #nextMany:. It is some extra typing, but it can be done now: I've been doing it the entire time I have made serious use of Pharo. I am *STILL* finding places in which file streams do annoying things (such as prompting "the user" on my server [argggggg!!!!!!<g>], but I will eventually identify them and code around them. Consider this preliminary, but here is some code: http://squeaksource.com/PharoInbox/DolphinCompatibility-Streams-BillSchwab.… Bill

Aug. 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Should I be able to hang my pharo 1.1 image so easily?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

The two can indeed be related. The question is how one goes about modeling flow; one approach could be to share an algorithm and traits might make that sufficiently simple to justify ditching something that is using continuations (which I have never liked). -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Lukas Renggli Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 5:26 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Should I be able to hang my pharo 1.1 image so easily? On 18 August 2010 00:22, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > > You're wrong about "nothing to do with..." Â I am referring to coding idioms that might replace tasks; traits are almost certainly one method. Â That said, I will take a look at show/answer as a possible replacement. - Traits are about code sharing. - Tasks are about modeling flow. There is really nothing common to these two things. This is getting off-topic though. The issue with the not-working interrupt key in Pharo is serious. Lukas > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of > Lukas Renggli > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 5:11 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Should I be able to hang my pharo 1.1 image so easily? > > On 18 August 2010 00:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >> Lukas, >> >> Interesting! Â How do I get rid of my tasks then, traits?? > > Uhh? That has nothing to do with traits. > > http://book.seaside.st/book/components/calling/show-answer > > Lukas > > > >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of >> Lukas Renggli >> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:53 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Should I be able to hang my pharo 1.1 image so easily? >> >> On 17 August 2010 23:36, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> The answer in general is "no." Â The only caveat with Seaside code is that (I gues due to continuations??), it is possible to make simple mistakes with harsh consequences. Â My early attempts at Seaside programming were not pretty; with two books now available, it should be easier to start out knowing not to render in callbacks and vice versa. >>> >>> Is the Seaside code in this case poorly-behaved? >> >> Seaside doesn't use continuations anymore, unless you have a WATask. >> >> Continuations do not affect the interrupt behavior. >> >> Lukas >> >> -- >> Lukas Renggli >> www.lukas-renggli.ch >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Should I be able to hang my pharo 1.1 image so easily?

by Lukas Renggli

On 18 August 2010 00:22, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > > You're wrong about "nothing to do with..." Â I am referring to coding idioms that might replace tasks; traits are almost certainly one method. Â That said, I will take a look at show/answer as a possible replacement. - Traits are about code sharing. - Tasks are about modeling flow. There is really nothing common to these two things. This is getting off-topic though. The issue with the not-working interrupt key in Pharo is serious. Lukas > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Lukas Renggli > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 5:11 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Should I be able to hang my pharo 1.1 image so easily? > > On 18 August 2010 00:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >> Lukas, >> >> Interesting! Â How do I get rid of my tasks then, traits?? > > Uhh? That has nothing to do with traits. > > http://book.seaside.st/book/components/calling/show-answer > > Lukas > > > >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of >> Lukas Renggli >> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:53 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Should I be able to hang my pharo 1.1 image so easily? >> >> On 17 August 2010 23:36, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> The answer in general is "no." Â The only caveat with Seaside code is that (I gues due to continuations??), it is possible to make simple mistakes with harsh consequences. Â My early attempts at Seaside programming were not pretty; with two books now available, it should be easier to start out knowing not to render in callbacks and vice versa. >>> >>> Is the Seaside code in this case poorly-behaved? >> >> Seaside doesn't use continuations anymore, unless you have a WATask. >> >> Continuations do not affect the interrupt behavior. >> >> Lukas >> >> -- >> Lukas Renggli >> www.lukas-renggli.ch >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

Aug. 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Should I be able to hang my pharo 1.1 image so easily?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

You're wrong about "nothing to do with..." I am referring to coding idioms that might replace tasks; traits are almost certainly one method. That said, I will take a look at show/answer as a possible replacement. -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Lukas Renggli Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 5:11 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Should I be able to hang my pharo 1.1 image so easily? On 18 August 2010 00:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Lukas, > > Interesting! Â How do I get rid of my tasks then, traits?? Uhh? That has nothing to do with traits. http://book.seaside.st/book/components/calling/show-answer Lukas > > Bill > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of > Lukas Renggli > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 4:53 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Should I be able to hang my pharo 1.1 image so easily? > > On 17 August 2010 23:36, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> The answer in general is "no." Â The only caveat with Seaside code is that (I gues due to continuations??), it is possible to make simple mistakes with harsh consequences. Â My early attempts at Seaside programming were not pretty; with two books now available, it should be easier to start out knowing not to render in callbacks and vice versa. >> >> Is the Seaside code in this case poorly-behaved? > > Seaside doesn't use continuations anymore, unless you have a WATask. > > Continuations do not affect the interrupt behavior. > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 17, 2010