August 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] New bytecodes not in blue book ...

by Eliot Miranda

2010/8/28 James Ladd <james_ladd(a)hotmail.com> > Hi All, > > I'm looking at translating some bytecodes and they are not specified in the > blue book. > > The following is what I think they mean and I am wondering if someone here > could > confirm? > http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/2008/06/07/closures-part-i/ http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/2008/07/22/closures-part-ii-the-bytecod… > > 97 <8E 00 01> popIntoTemp: 0 inVectorAt: 1 > > pop into temporary at index 0 the value in vector location 0. > vector is at temporary index 1. > > 109 <8C 00 01> pushTemp: 0 inVectorAt: 1 > > push temporary at index 0 into vector location 0. > vector is at temporary index 1 > > 116 <8D 00 01> storeIntoTemp: 0 inVectorAt: 1 > > store into temporary at index 0 the value in vector location 0. > vector is at temporary index 1. > > From what I can tell these bytecodes are added to support closures. > > Rgs, James. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Aug. 29, 2010

[Pharo-project] New bytecodes not in blue book ...

by James Ladd

Hi All, I'm looking at translating some bytecodes and they are not specified in the blue book. The following is what I think they mean and I am wondering if someone here could confirm? 97 <8E 00 01> popIntoTemp: 0 inVectorAt: 1 pop into temporary at index 0 the value in vector location 0. vector is at temporary index 1. 109 <8C 00 01> pushTemp: 0 inVectorAt: 1 push temporary at index 0 into vector location 0. vector is at temporary index 1 116 <8D 00 01> storeIntoTemp: 0 inVectorAt: 1 store into temporary at index 0 the value in vector location 0. vector is at temporary index 1. >From what I can tell these bytecodes are added to support closures. Rgs, James.

Aug. 29, 2010

[Pharo-project] Experimental Cocoa OS-X based Squeak Cog JIT VM 5.8b4.

by John M McIntosh

I've stuck a version (5.8b4) of the cocoa based os-x squeak cog JIT based VM in my experimental folder. http://homepage.mac.com/johnmci/.Public/experimental/Squeak%205.8b4.app.zip I spent the last two days becoming very familiar with Open/GL and rewrote the display logic to use Open/GL. I am still doing some further optimization, but people should test this version and let me know what they find. Other Fixes. I think the control-arrow keys should work now, someone test this and let me know. -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

Aug. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] OmniBrowser chapter for PBE 2 is now available

by Alexandre Bergel

Yes, this is cool! Alexandre On 28 Aug 2010, at 10:13, Oscar Nierstrasz wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > There is a new draft chapter on the OmniBrowser framework for Pharo by Example 2 now available: > > http://pharobyexample.org// > > Cheers, > - on > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Aug. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: About SPDF

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi christian > I dont think that this is so easy. > > My product smallCharts uses the PDF implementation as its primary vector graphics output format - I rely on it. > > What I want is to make the implementation of the spec available to the community. And I would like others to use it and maybe contribute to some of the many uncovered areas of the spec (pixmaps, encryption to name a few) > But I dont want to lose control. I dont like several incompatible development streams for different dialects. Well you will have to pay the price for that: make sure that you do not rely on VW specific behavior. Build a decent VW exporter (to me it is easier to work in pharo and export in VW but I may be wrong). See below > And I would like to integrate contributions myself. What you can do is have a look at what people are doing, but do you have the time for that if you do not have the time to export it to pharo? Do you have tests? > One way to do this is to have the primary implementation in VisualWorks and a reliable, not too intrusive way of exporting it to other dialects. If such an export mechanism would be available, I could do that. You have a simple squeak format exporter that we patched (:= instead of _) and use for one shot export when we migrate our old Moose library but this is not like you can click and load in pharo and it works if the code was not develop with that in mind and even there I do not know. Now what would be the license of your code? > But I dont have time to develop one. > > Any thoughts about such a procedure? Why you do not ask people to help and port it. Then using packages you may control the addition in another package and when this is stable enough in pharo you get it in VW. Now in any case if you publish it under MIT/BSD/Apache anybody can just fork it and create another stream. May be there are other licenses. now I think that licenses can be a mess and you can just lose time with them. So it is up to you. For me I would like to have a good PDF outputer and I imagine that it requires work like with anything that requires a bit of effort so joining forces is always a good situation. Because we are a tiny community. What you can also play is - let your version grow and get good in pharo, cherry pick what you want for VW, - it gives you the time to see on one day you want to reuse for projects in pharo because with Cog I imagine that some people may be interested by pharo for their dev even if not everything can be reduced to speed. :) Stef > > Christian > >> -----UrsprÃ¼ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] Im >> Auftrag von Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez >> Gesendet: Samstag, 28. August 2010 19:31 >> An: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: About SPDF >> >> El sÃ¡b, 28-08-2010 a las 18:42 +0200, Christian Haider escribiÃ³: >>> I have a Smalltalk only (with help of zlib) implementation >> of PDF (1.7) in VisualWorks. >>> >>> I'd love to have a port for Pharo but not the time to do it... >>> >>> I thought of releasing it as open source. >> >> Please do it, and with MIT license would be perfect because it will >> avoid a lot of problems in the future. >> >> Either publish it as a file out in your page or in a mail, or create a >> project in squeaksource with read or read/write access for >> everyone and >> someone will jump and will work out the porting to pharo. >> >> The main thing is to let the code out as MIT and then >> everything will be >> easy. >> >> Thanks >> >>> >>> Ideas? Need? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Christian >>> >>>> -----UrsprÃ¼ngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] Im >>>> Auftrag von Torsten Bergmann >>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. August 2010 08:31 >>>> An: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> Betreff: [Pharo-project] Fwd: About SPDF >>>> >>>>> Hehe, too much legal terms to me.....What we could do? >> Can modify, >>>>> create a new package, etc? >>>> >>>> The license of SPDF was not open enough for me in the past - thats >>>> why I created the binding to the Haru PDF Library: >>>> >>>> http://www.squeaksource.com/HPDF.html >>>> http://libharu.sourceforge.net >>>> >>>> This requires FFI and an external shared library. >>>> >>>> If you want to have a Smalltalk only solution I think >>>> you have to digg in the PDF spec and write an own. Assumed >>>> you have lots of time to spend on bits and bytes and >>>> writing nice unit tests for PDF streams. >>>> >>>> Similar to iText for Java, this allows you change the >>>> license and block your government later ;), see the story >>>> of Bruno Lowagie [1] >>>> >>>> There are also other PDF alternatives beside HPDF and >> SPDF (see [2]) >>>> >>>> Bye >>>> Torsten >>>> >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/20/open-source-developer-intends >>>> -to-block-belgian-government-from-using-his-technology-over-ta >>> x-dispute/ >>>> [2] http://www.seaside.st/documentation/pdfs >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! >>>> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> -- >> Miguel CobÃ¡ >> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: About SPDF

by Christian Haider

I dont think that this is so easy. My product smallCharts uses the PDF implementation as its primary vector graphics output format - I rely on it. What I want is to make the implementation of the spec available to the community. And I would like others to use it and maybe contribute to some of the many uncovered areas of the spec (pixmaps, encryption to name a few). But I dont want to lose control. I dont like several incompatible development streams for different dialects. And I would like to integrate contributions myself. One way to do this is to have the primary implementation in VisualWorks and a reliable, not too intrusive way of exporting it to other dialects. If such an export mechanism would be available, I could do that. But I dont have time to develop one. Any thoughts about such a procedure? Christian > -----UrsprÃ¼ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] Im > Auftrag von Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez > Gesendet: Samstag, 28. August 2010 19:31 > An: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Betreff: Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: About SPDF > > El sÃ¡b, 28-08-2010 a las 18:42 +0200, Christian Haider escribiÃ³: > > I have a Smalltalk only (with help of zlib) implementation > of PDF (1.7) in VisualWorks. > > > > I'd love to have a port for Pharo but not the time to do it... > > > > I thought of releasing it as open source. > > Please do it, and with MIT license would be perfect because it will > avoid a lot of problems in the future. > > Either publish it as a file out in your page or in a mail, or create a > project in squeaksource with read or read/write access for > everyone and > someone will jump and will work out the porting to pharo. > > The main thing is to let the code out as MIT and then > everything will be > easy. > > Thanks > > > > > Ideas? Need? > > > > Cheers, > > Christian > > > > > -----UrsprÃ¼ngliche Nachricht----- > > > Von: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] Im > > > Auftrag von Torsten Bergmann > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. August 2010 08:31 > > > An: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > Betreff: [Pharo-project] Fwd: About SPDF > > > > > > >Hehe, too much legal terms to me.....What we could do? > Can modify, > > > >create a new package, etc? > > > > > > The license of SPDF was not open enough for me in the past - thats > > > why I created the binding to the Haru PDF Library: > > > > > > http://www.squeaksource.com/HPDF.html > > > http://libharu.sourceforge.net > > > > > > This requires FFI and an external shared library. > > > > > > If you want to have a Smalltalk only solution I think > > > you have to digg in the PDF spec and write an own. Assumed > > > you have lots of time to spend on bits and bytes and > > > writing nice unit tests for PDF streams. > > > > > > Similar to iText for Java, this allows you change the > > > license and block your government later ;), see the story > > > of Bruno Lowagie [1] > > > > > > There are also other PDF alternatives beside HPDF and > SPDF (see [2]) > > > > > > Bye > > > Torsten > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/20/open-source-developer-intends > > > -to-block-belgian-government-from-using-his-technology-over-ta > > x-dispute/ > > > [2] http://www.seaside.st/documentation/pdfs > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! > > > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > Miguel CobÃ¡ > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Aug. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: About SPDF

by Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ MartÃnez

El sÃ¡b, 28-08-2010 a las 18:42 +0200, Christian Haider escribiÃ³: > I have a Smalltalk only (with help of zlib) implementation of PDF (1.7) in VisualWorks. > > I'd love to have a port for Pharo but not the time to do it... > > I thought of releasing it as open source. Please do it, and with MIT license would be perfect because it will avoid a lot of problems in the future. Either publish it as a file out in your page or in a mail, or create a project in squeaksource with read or read/write access for everyone and someone will jump and will work out the porting to pharo. The main thing is to let the code out as MIT and then everything will be easy. Thanks > > Ideas? Need? > > Cheers, > Christian > > > -----UrsprÃ¼ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] Im > > Auftrag von Torsten Bergmann > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. August 2010 08:31 > > An: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > Betreff: [Pharo-project] Fwd: About SPDF > > > > >Hehe, too much legal terms to me.....What we could do? Can modify, > > >create a new package, etc? > > > > The license of SPDF was not open enough for me in the past - thats > > why I created the binding to the Haru PDF Library: > > > > http://www.squeaksource.com/HPDF.html > > http://libharu.sourceforge.net > > > > This requires FFI and an external shared library. > > > > If you want to have a Smalltalk only solution I think > > you have to digg in the PDF spec and write an own. Assumed > > you have lots of time to spend on bits and bytes and > > writing nice unit tests for PDF streams. > > > > Similar to iText for Java, this allows you change the > > license and block your government later ;), see the story > > of Bruno Lowagie [1] > > > > There are also other PDF alternatives beside HPDF and SPDF (see [2]) > > > > Bye > > Torsten > > > > > > [1] > > http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/20/open-source-developer-intends > > -to-block-belgian-government-from-using-his-technology-over-ta > x-dispute/ > > [2] http://www.seaside.st/documentation/pdfs > > > > > > > > -- > > GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! > > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Aug. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: About SPDF

by Christian Haider

I have a Smalltalk only (with help of zlib) implementation of PDF (1.7) in VisualWorks. I'd love to have a port for Pharo but not the time to do it... I thought of releasing it as open source. Ideas? Need? Cheers, Christian > -----UrsprÃ¼ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] Im > Auftrag von Torsten Bergmann > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. August 2010 08:31 > An: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Betreff: [Pharo-project] Fwd: About SPDF > > >Hehe, too much legal terms to me.....What we could do? Can modify, > >create a new package, etc? > > The license of SPDF was not open enough for me in the past - thats > why I created the binding to the Haru PDF Library: > > http://www.squeaksource.com/HPDF.html > http://libharu.sourceforge.net > > This requires FFI and an external shared library. > > If you want to have a Smalltalk only solution I think > you have to digg in the PDF spec and write an own. Assumed > you have lots of time to spend on bits and bytes and > writing nice unit tests for PDF streams. > > Similar to iText for Java, this allows you change the > license and block your government later ;), see the story > of Bruno Lowagie [1] > > There are also other PDF alternatives beside HPDF and SPDF (see [2]) > > Bye > Torsten > > > [1] > http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/20/open-source-developer-intends > -to-block-belgian-government-from-using-his-technology-over-ta x-dispute/ > [2] http://www.seaside.st/documentation/pdfs > > > > -- > GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Aug. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] about ValueAdapter

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 28, 2010, at 5:57 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Stef, > > I can build adapters easily enough, but the cool examples depend on a framework of which they are a very tiny part. Again, my immediate message is: > > (1) date and time to/from text conversions need to be somehow format specific; Dolphin solves that using a type converter hierarchy, and I have a very crude implementation of it for Pharo > > (2) Squeak's coercion of strings to numbers is probably a result of a failure to recognize the need for type converters. > > (3) my gradually evolving MVP framework will include type converters and value adapters. I would really like to have a MVP framework. > > Bill > > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] > Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 2:45 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about ValueAdapter > > On Aug 27, 2010, at 11:50 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Stef, >> >> Re survival, I might have been concerned about possible poor behavior of the methods you mention, or that you might soon remove then in cleaning. I really don't remember. > > on base classes we want have better library and we pay attention that they do not impact people. > > >> I will indeed present the adapters as part of a larger whole. > > focus on one and make it shine people at good at generalization when provided with a nice example. > >> That will take time to evolve though. I think some of what we see in Squeak is the result of a failure to separate the related problems into pieces with clear responsibilities. >> >> Bill >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] >> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:23 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about ValueAdapter >> >> On Aug 27, 2010, at 4:46 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> Stef, >>> >>> Got it - I thought you might have meant something completely different. For example, I had a really cool #printOn: method that I had to suppress because the inspector was parsing the text and changing things as a result - arrrrggggGGGGGG!!!!! :) >>> >>> Re other methods in the image. My goal was to be as data driven (off of the format) as possible and to get specific things working quickly. Mostly the latter; I just needed a few types of date and time conversions to work, and to work the same way they did when the code ran in Dolphin. >>> >>> Even if I had looked around, there are always questions: does it work at all, does it work well, will it survive the next sprint? >> >> what will survive? >> >> >>> You are doing a wonderful job, so please don't take that as anything negative. Of course, more tests will allow you to clean freely and immediately note that something was critical to the adpaters. >>> >>> Another thing to note, we are under the ValueAdapter thread, but dates and times really fall under type converters. Of course, converters and adapters often work together. A model understands #bodyWeight; a text editor understands #value, and a converter can sit between them to turn the editor's (text) value into a float for the model. It is nice pluggable/serializable stuff that probably makes the most sense in the context of view resources, whether they are saved in binary or not. The 30k ft view is probably to encourage composition rather than to force inheritance. Closures help us. Doing our graphics in Smalltalk can help or hurt, because we can freely change the widgets as needed, which is both valuable freedom and a crutch that can compensate for inflexible design. >> >> My suggestion is the following. >> Show us that this is cool with a nice example. Code is a good value for not native english speakers. >> >> Stef >> >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] >>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:07 AM >>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about ValueAdapter >>> >>> there are a lot of methods to print time and date as well as number and I thought that your adaptor would benefit from them. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Aug 27, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >>> >>>> Stef, >>>> >>>> I generally spend most of my time trying to avoid having the RB do what you are describing, but it should be that simple, right? >>>> >>>> As you have noticed, the adapters are very crude, but tests are certainly a good idea. One thing that I miss is a good place to put package comments; I tend to write them more than class comments (they not only identify the important classes, but which ones to use and how, all in one place - who then need class comments?), and then relentlessly comment methods as they evolve. That said, I could probably force out a few class comments. >>>> >>>> What do you mean by checking padded printOn? What are they, and how (and for what) would I check them? >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of stephane ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr] >>>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 4:28 AM >>>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Development >>>> Subject: [Pharo-project] about ValueAdapter >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> I scanned the code. >>>> Could you >>>> - reformat your code? >>>> put space after : >>>> align on the first tab >>>> - get some more tests? >>>> - I could not see the class comments but if there are none then please adde something. >>>> - did you check the padded printon methods and others? >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 28, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] about ValueAdapter

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, I can build adapters easily enough, but the cool examples depend on a framework of which they are a very tiny part. Again, my immediate message is: (1) date and time to/from text conversions need to be somehow format specific; Dolphin solves that using a type converter hierarchy, and I have a very crude implementation of it for Pharo (2) Squeak's coercion of strings to numbers is probably a result of a failure to recognize the need for type converters. (3) my gradually evolving MVP framework will include type converters and value adapters. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 2:45 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about ValueAdapter On Aug 27, 2010, at 11:50 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Stef, > > Re survival, I might have been concerned about possible poor behavior of the methods you mention, or that you might soon remove then in cleaning. I really don't remember. on base classes we want have better library and we pay attention that they do not impact people. > I will indeed present the adapters as part of a larger whole. focus on one and make it shine people at good at generalization when provided with a nice example. > That will take time to evolve though. I think some of what we see in Squeak is the result of a failure to separate the related problems into pieces with clear responsibilities. > > Bill > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:23 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about ValueAdapter > > On Aug 27, 2010, at 4:46 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> Stef, >> >> Got it - I thought you might have meant something completely different. For example, I had a really cool #printOn: method that I had to suppress because the inspector was parsing the text and changing things as a result - arrrrggggGGGGGG!!!!! :) >> >> Re other methods in the image. My goal was to be as data driven (off of the format) as possible and to get specific things working quickly. Mostly the latter; I just needed a few types of date and time conversions to work, and to work the same way they did when the code ran in Dolphin. >> >> Even if I had looked around, there are always questions: does it work at all, does it work well, will it survive the next sprint? > > what will survive? > > >> You are doing a wonderful job, so please don't take that as anything negative. Of course, more tests will allow you to clean freely and immediately note that something was critical to the adpaters. >> >> Another thing to note, we are under the ValueAdapter thread, but dates and times really fall under type converters. Of course, converters and adapters often work together. A model understands #bodyWeight; a text editor understands #value, and a converter can sit between them to turn the editor's (text) value into a float for the model. It is nice pluggable/serializable stuff that probably makes the most sense in the context of view resources, whether they are saved in binary or not. The 30k ft view is probably to encourage composition rather than to force inheritance. Closures help us. Doing our graphics in Smalltalk can help or hurt, because we can freely change the widgets as needed, which is both valuable freedom and a crutch that can compensate for inflexible design. > > My suggestion is the following. > Show us that this is cool with a nice example. Code is a good value for not native english speakers. > > Stef > >> >> Bill >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] >> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:07 AM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] about ValueAdapter >> >> there are a lot of methods to print time and date as well as number and I thought that your adaptor would benefit from them. >> >> Stef >> >> On Aug 27, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: >> >>> Stef, >>> >>> I generally spend most of my time trying to avoid having the RB do what you are describing, but it should be that simple, right? >>> >>> As you have noticed, the adapters are very crude, but tests are certainly a good idea. One thing that I miss is a good place to put package comments; I tend to write them more than class comments (they not only identify the important classes, but which ones to use and how, all in one place - who then need class comments?), and then relentlessly comment methods as they evolve. That said, I could probably force out a few class comments. >>> >>> What do you mean by checking padded printOn? What are they, and how (and for what) would I check them? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of stephane ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr] >>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 4:28 AM >>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Development >>> Subject: [Pharo-project] about ValueAdapter >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> I scanned the code. >>> Could you >>> - reformat your code? >>> put space after : >>> align on the first tab >>> - get some more tests? >>> - I could not see the class comments but if there are none then please adde something. >>> - did you check the padded printon methods and others? >>> >>> Stef >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 28, 2010