August 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] this style looks cool

by Mariano Martinez Peck

I like this style also. Would love to have such theme available in Pharo :) On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor.girba(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Bill, > > The icons are available the OB browser by overriding #browserIcon. > > Some of the icons that you see are shipped with Seaside. The blueish bubble > denotes an announcement and is already present in Pharo. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On 29 Aug 2010, at 20:43, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > Stef, >> >> The first thing I notice in it is background colors, or is it just >> variation in backlighting on my monitor? Have we evolved to the point that >> background colors can be readily set? Last I looked into it, there was >> mention of a background style that I could never find. >> >> Another thing is that a large fraction of the classes have icons >> associated with them. Dolphin makes that easy to do: just implement a >> class-side #icon, which I always did in terms of a rich set of class icons >> present in the base system, so I never had to mess with the details. It >> would be nice if it were that easy in Pharo; when well designed, such icons >> can aid perception. Since I constantly praise Dolphin, I will point out >> that D6's use of apples for most classes was not the best choice. It was >> visually grating and lead to a rather unprofessional look in a deployed >> executable where I had previously never given a second thought when the >> default icon was a dot. A rich (and expendable) set of clean icons for >> collections/composites, views, plugs/sockets, various metaphors that are >> easy to associate with one's own classes would be helpful. >> >> This might be similar to Dolphin's ability to apply multiple categories to >> a method: you won't miss it if you have never had access to it, but it is a >> *good* thing to have. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [ >> pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of stephane >> ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr] >> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 2:17 PM >> To: Pharo Development >> Subject: [Pharo-project] this style looks cool >> >> http://www.anymorphic.com/softwareentwicklung.html >> >> Stef >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar." > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Aug. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] OSProcess - can it pipe 1 MB?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Dave, Why does primWrite: id from: stringOrByteArray startingAt: startIndex count: count "Write count bytes onto this file from the given string or byte array starting at the given index. Answer the number of bytes written." raise an error? Perhaps it or a related method should answer the number of bytes written. There should be a compromise between locking up the VM and having no idea how quickly the other side can accept data. Given a count of what was written (as suggested in the comment, and perhaps zero bytes if the other side is struggling), then one could design a reasonable loop with a delay to provide the needed flow control. Otherwise, it's just guesswork. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of David T. Lewis [lewis(a)mail.msen.com] Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 3:05 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] OSProcess - can it pipe 1 MB? It does not belong in OSProcess unless it's something that the underlying operating system actually supports, which is not the case here. As far as I know, there is no Unix system call for determining how much data a pipe is ready to accept. You'll need to manage your flow control yourself. You may also need to call #setNonBlocking on the pipe writer, otherwise you can block on write and lock up the virtual machine(I think you know that already but just in case). If the process at the other end of your pipe is keeping up with the data, it won't be a problem, but if you try to write to a full pipe without pulling something out of the other end, you will lock up your VM completely unless the stream has been set to non-blocking mode. Dave On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 02:28:50PM -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Dave, > > Sure, but then the command shell must then be doing something that OSProcess should do: transfer "large" (1MB isn't much these days) blobs in pieces that are manageable. The questions are where does it belong, and what if anything is necessary to ensure the pipe is ready for the next piece? > > One thought would be > > AttachableFileStream>>nextPutAll:blob > | in | > in := ReadStream on:blob. > [ in atEnd ] whileFalse:[ > self nextPutAll:( in next:32000). > ]. > > but it should run into the same problem after a few times through the loop. It needs some "flow control" and could easily belong elsewhere in the hierarch?? The above assumes the (should be changed) silent truncation of #next:. > > Bill > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of David T. Lewis [lewis(a)mail.msen.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:37 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] OSProcess - can it pipe 1 MB? > > On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 11:36:02AM -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > I am trying to pipe roughly 1 MB of data into a program on Linux; I know it can handle the load, because I have tested it with by cat-ing a script and the data. I do not yet promise that my Pharo code is correct; if the program did not respond or returned junk, I would look to myself. But I am getting errors suggesting that AttachableFileStream is failing on writing to the pipe, and it's very suspicious that it simply can't handle the size of the string. Any ideas? > > > > Bill > > Try googling "maximum size of write to linux pipe". Unix pipes > have a capacity limit, and the write will fail if you try to write > too large a chunk all at once. > > Dave > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] OSProcess - can it pipe 1 MB?

by David T. Lewis

It does not belong in OSProcess unless it's something that the underlying operating system actually supports, which is not the case here. As far as I know, there is no Unix system call for determining how much data a pipe is ready to accept. You'll need to manage your flow control yourself. You may also need to call #setNonBlocking on the pipe writer, otherwise you can block on write and lock up the virtual machine(I think you know that already but just in case). If the process at the other end of your pipe is keeping up with the data, it won't be a problem, but if you try to write to a full pipe without pulling something out of the other end, you will lock up your VM completely unless the stream has been set to non-blocking mode. Dave On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 02:28:50PM -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Dave, > > Sure, but then the command shell must then be doing something that OSProcess should do: transfer "large" (1MB isn't much these days) blobs in pieces that are manageable. The questions are where does it belong, and what if anything is necessary to ensure the pipe is ready for the next piece? > > One thought would be > > AttachableFileStream>>nextPutAll:blob > | in | > in := ReadStream on:blob. > [ in atEnd ] whileFalse:[ > self nextPutAll:( in next:32000). > ]. > > but it should run into the same problem after a few times through the loop. It needs some "flow control" and could easily belong elsewhere in the hierarch?? The above assumes the (should be changed) silent truncation of #next:. > > Bill > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of David T. Lewis [lewis(a)mail.msen.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:37 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] OSProcess - can it pipe 1 MB? > > On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 11:36:02AM -0400, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > > I am trying to pipe roughly 1 MB of data into a program on Linux; I know it can handle the load, because I have tested it with by cat-ing a script and the data. I do not yet promise that my Pharo code is correct; if the program did not respond or returned junk, I would look to myself. But I am getting errors suggesting that AttachableFileStream is failing on writing to the pipe, and it's very suspicious that it simply can't handle the size of the string. Any ideas? > > > > Bill > > Try googling "maximum size of write to linux pipe". Unix pipes > have a capacity limit, and the write will fail if you try to write > too large a chunk all at once. > > Dave > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Experimental Cocoa OS-X based Squeak Cog JIT VM 5.8b4.

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor.girba(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 4.2.2beta1 these keys work as expected. > > I have to mention that I am still on Mac OS X 10.5.8. Perhaps the others > are on Snow Leopard. Could that be a difference? > > I am in 10.6.4 > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On 29 Aug 2010, at 19:27, John M McIntosh wrote: > > Ok, so I have Ken Brown & Mariano Martinez Peck saying the cntl-arrow >> keys work, and Tudor Girba saying they don't work. >> Obviously I need someone to document the behaviour in a 4.x VM and then in >> 5.8b4 so we understand what happens or doesn't happen. >> >> >> On 2010-08-29, at 7:45 AM, Ken G. Brown wrote: >> >> ... >>> When Squeak has focus, cntl-arrow keys change Spaces as is normal on >>> MacPro 10.6.4 >>> >>> Ken G. Brown >>> >>> >> -- >> >> =========================================================================== >> John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: >> squeaker68882 >> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com >> >> =========================================================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Be rather willing to give than demanding to get." > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Aug. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Experimental Cocoa OS-X based Squeak Cog JIT VM 5.8b4.

by Tudor Girba

Ahh, I see. I expect it to jump between words. On regular Mac applications, you get this behavior by pressing alt-arrow. And when I press shift-ctrl-arrow, I expect it to select up to the end of the word. On regular Mac applications, you get this behavior by pressing alt-shift-arrow. Of course, I would not mind if instead of ctrl we would have alt :). Cheers, Doru On 29 Aug 2010, at 20:52, John M McIntosh wrote: > Ok, well I have no idea what you are using control-arrow-left key for. > if you bring up a browser window, place the cursor in the text entry > input field then? > What do you expect to happen when you tap certain keys? > > On 2010-08-29, at 10:50 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On 29 Aug 2010, at 19:44, John M McIntosh wrote: >> >>> Ah, yes this is a functional change between 10.5 and 10.6 >>> >>> Can you document a test case for me in a 4.x squeak VM so I can >>> figure out what to do for the 10.5 users >> >> How exactly should I do that? >> >> I just checked in a 4.2.2 and everything works as expected. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru > > -- > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: > squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// > www.smalltalkconsulting.com > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Next time you see your life passing by, say 'hi' and get to know her."

Aug. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Experimental Cocoa OS-X based Squeak Cog JIT VM 5.8b4.

by John M McIntosh

Ok, well I have no idea what you are using control-arrow-left key for. if you bring up a browser window, place the cursor in the text entry input field then? What do you expect to happen when you tap certain keys? On 2010-08-29, at 10:50 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > On 29 Aug 2010, at 19:44, John M McIntosh wrote: > >> Ah, yes this is a functional change between 10.5 and 10.6 >> >> Can you document a test case for me in a 4.x squeak VM so I can figure out what to do for the 10.5 users > > How exactly should I do that? > > I just checked in a 4.2.2 and everything works as expected. > > Cheers, > Doru -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

Aug. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] this style looks cool

by Tudor Girba

Hi Bill, The icons are available the OB browser by overriding #browserIcon. Some of the icons that you see are shipped with Seaside. The blueish bubble denotes an announcement and is already present in Pharo. Cheers, Doru On 29 Aug 2010, at 20:43, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Stef, > > The first thing I notice in it is background colors, or is it just > variation in backlighting on my monitor? Have we evolved to the > point that background colors can be readily set? Last I looked into > it, there was mention of a background style that I could never find. > > Another thing is that a large fraction of the classes have icons > associated with them. Dolphin makes that easy to do: just implement > a class-side #icon, which I always did in terms of a rich set of > class icons present in the base system, so I never had to mess with > the details. It would be nice if it were that easy in Pharo; when > well designed, such icons can aid perception. Since I constantly > praise Dolphin, I will point out that D6's use of apples for most > classes was not the best choice. It was visually grating and lead > to a rather unprofessional look in a deployed executable where I had > previously never given a second thought when the default icon was a > dot. A rich (and expendable) set of clean icons for collections/ > composites, views, plugs/sockets, various metaphors that are easy to > associate with one's own classes would be helpful. > > This might be similar to Dolphin's ability to apply multiple > categories to a method: you won't miss it if you have never had > access to it, but it is a *good* thing to have. > > Bill > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > ] On Behalf Of stephane ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr] > Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 2:17 PM > To: Pharo Development > Subject: [Pharo-project] this style looks cool > > http://www.anymorphic.com/softwareentwicklung.html > > Stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- www.tudorgirba.com "From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar."

Aug. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] moose description on pharo-project

by Tudor Girba

Thanks! Doru On 29 Aug 2010, at 20:39, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > Done. > > Adrian > > On Aug 29, 2010, at 20:30 , Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Could someone change the description of Moose from http://pharo-project.org/about/success-stories? >> >> It should say: >> "Moose is a platform for software and data analysis" >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Problem solving should be focused on describing >> the problem in a way that makes the solution obvious." >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- www.tudorgirba.com "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal."

Aug. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] this style looks cool

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, The first thing I notice in it is background colors, or is it just variation in backlighting on my monitor? Have we evolved to the point that background colors can be readily set? Last I looked into it, there was mention of a background style that I could never find. Another thing is that a large fraction of the classes have icons associated with them. Dolphin makes that easy to do: just implement a class-side #icon, which I always did in terms of a rich set of class icons present in the base system, so I never had to mess with the details. It would be nice if it were that easy in Pharo; when well designed, such icons can aid perception. Since I constantly praise Dolphin, I will point out that D6's use of apples for most classes was not the best choice. It was visually grating and lead to a rather unprofessional look in a deployed executable where I had previously never given a second thought when the default icon was a dot. A rich (and expendable) set of clean icons for collections/composites, views, plugs/sockets, various metaphors that are easy to associate with one's own classes would be helpful. This might be similar to Dolphin's ability to apply multiple categories to a method: you won't miss it if you have never had access to it, but it is a *good* thing to have. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of stephane ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)free.fr] Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 2:17 PM To: Pharo Development Subject: [Pharo-project] this style looks cool http://www.anymorphic.com/softwareentwicklung.html Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] this style looks cool

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 29, 2010, at 8:30 PM, Steven R. Baker wrote: >>>> http://www.anymorphic.com/softwareentwicklung.html >>> >>> I love that style, but I'd like to see the OS X jolly rancher buttons go away. Ok now I got it. :) Indeed! I was thinking that there is also a lot of things in general that I would like to see go away. I'm trying to rewrite some of the code of Utilities.... Stef >> >> what are these? > > The window buttons on the top left that mimic OS X. Jolly Ranchers are candy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolly_Rancher > > -Steven > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 29, 2010