August 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Poll: missing libraries to support business

by Lukas Renggli

>>> - A decent Smalltalk library to interact with the file system >> >> I am using FileSystem and it is quite nice. I would vote to integrate it in Pharo, if not in PharoCore. > > Me too but it should handle utf8. I fixed that (the encoding issue of filenames) and many other things. Max discovered quite a few bugs while working on GitFS. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

Aug. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Extending SUnit [was Re: Autotest, proof-of-concept [was: About TDD and Pharo]]

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 3, 2010, at 12:18 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> Then why do you have several announcers and keep them in a classVariable? > > An alternative solution would be to have an instance variable in the meta-class. This is what I did first. But you need to recompile the more than 500 unit tests in that case to add the iv. > We can go that way. alex my question was more naive and probably it shows that I do not know how the announce protocol should be implemented but why do you have to record them? > > Cheers, > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Poll: missing libraries to support business

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Ok guys you get a nice list of wishes. Now how could we proceed since ESUG is not the national swiss bank. What I envisioned is the following: - we select a topic like - improving webClient - OAuth (http://oauth.net/) - open-id (http://openid.net/) We know some excellent developers (that because of the economical situations of their countries) are also cheap. or you get bored and do not need to work to be payed and you can do them, this would be even better. We ask for an estimate. We create a pot where companies and esug as well can put money in. We do a large call. We wait that there is enough money in the pot and the project gets done. Does it make sense? else if you have magic powder let me know. Stef

Aug. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Poll: missing libraries to support business

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 3, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > >> - A scalable source code management system (MC gets very sloooow for large projects) >> - A change recovery mechanism that is not tedious (e.g., no mix of class definitions and do-its) >> - Better system integration: >> - OSProcess reliable and working for all major platforms >> - FFI/Alien; bindings to external libraries > > +10 > >> - A mature HTTP client (->WebClient looks good) >> - A decent Smalltalk library to interact with the file system > > I am using FileSystem and it is quite nice. I would vote to integrate it in Pharo, if not in PharoCore. Me too but it should handle utf8. > > Doru > >> - Clients for new DBs (was mentioned before) >> - OAuth (was mentioned before) >> >> Cheers, >> Adrian >> >> On Aug 2, 2010, at 21:50 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >>> Hi guys >>> >>> with the experience around the XMLRPC project, ESUG wants to change strategy to help growing business at the technical >>> level. So what are the key areas where you think that effort should be supported to help you making business in smalltalk? >>> >>> Stef >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "One cannot do more than one can do." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Poll: missing libraries to support business

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 3, 2010, at 9:16 AM, Nick Ager wrote: > > > 2010/8/3 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 9:50 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi guys > > with the experience around the XMLRPC project, ESUG wants to change strategy to help growing business at the technical > level. So what are the key areas where you think that effort should be supported to help you making business in smalltalk? > > Libraries > > Make connecting to C libraries/Java libraries as plainless as possible. > Make discovery of available Smalltalk libraries less painful: > * There's little or no differentiation on squeaksource between great, well-tested reliable code, and "my first Smalltalk project" yes we will have to address that and I believe that it should go via metacello > * Be great if ESUG sponsored the infrastructure for something like Apache commons (http://commons.apache.org/) for Smalltalk projects. They have three designations: > 1) Commons Proper - repository of reusable components > 2) Commons Sandbox - workspace for component development > 3) Repository of sandbox components that are currently inactive good idea. Now inactive does not mean sandboxed :) but yes we should have a categorisation of the projects. We should be able to put that in place with bibliocello. > * This would aid in the discovery of projects. > * Ideally projects in the equivalent to "commons proper" would be part of a CI system like Lukas' Hudson setup (http://hudson.lukas-renggli.ch/) > > HTH > > Nick > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] update to OCompletion

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks romain (and sorry for my stupid suggestion - good that you corrected it) Your tools are really important. Is there a ConfigurationOfOCompletion or just loading OCompletion works? > Hi All, > > I just committed: > http://squeaksource.com/OCompletion/Ocompletion-RomainRobbes.64.mcz > > the changes are: > > -incorporated Lukas' smart characters algorithm (thanks Lukas!) > -removed enter to insert a completion; only tab works now. > -delayed the switch to eCompletion's completion algorithm, hence the slowdown when using the down arrow happens only after the third time pressing it (after OCompletion's all of OCompletion's menu items). > > Cheers, > Romain > > -- > Romain Robbes > http://romain.robb.es > rrobbes(a)dcc.uchile.cl > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Poll: missing libraries to support business

by Tudor Girba

Hi, > - A scalable source code management system (MC gets very sloooow for > large projects) > - A change recovery mechanism that is not tedious (e.g., no mix of > class definitions and do-its) > - Better system integration: > - OSProcess reliable and working for all major platforms > - FFI/Alien; bindings to external libraries +10 > - A mature HTTP client (->WebClient looks good) > - A decent Smalltalk library to interact with the file system I am using FileSystem and it is quite nice. I would vote to integrate it in Pharo, if not in PharoCore. Doru > - Clients for new DBs (was mentioned before) > - OAuth (was mentioned before) > > Cheers, > Adrian > > On Aug 2, 2010, at 21:50 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> with the experience around the XMLRPC project, ESUG wants to change >> strategy to help growing business at the technical >> level. So what are the key areas where you think that effort should >> be supported to help you making business in smalltalk? >> >> Stef >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- www.tudorgirba.com "One cannot do more than one can do."

Aug. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] update to OCompletion

by Tudor Girba

Hi, On 3 Aug 2010, at 00:38, Romain Robbes wrote: > Hi All, > > I just committed: > http://squeaksource.com/OCompletion/Ocompletion-RomainRobbes.64.mcz > > the changes are: > > -incorporated Lukas' smart characters algorithm (thanks Lukas!) > -removed enter to insert a completion; only tab works now. > -delayed the switch to eCompletion's completion algorithm, hence the > slowdown when using the down arrow happens only after the third time > pressing it (after OCompletion's all of OCompletion's menu items). Fantastic! This greatly improves usability. Actually, you must have changed something else too because when I hit the third time the down arrow, it is significantly faster than before. It was sometimes the case that the image would hang for even tens of seconds, but now everything is pretty snappy. Cheers, Doru > Cheers, > Romain > > -- > Romain Robbes > http://romain.robb.es > rrobbes(a)dcc.uchile.cl > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- www.tudorgirba.com "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them."

Aug. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Poll: missing libraries to support business

by Adrian Lienhard

- A scalable source code management system (MC gets very sloooow for large projects) - A change recovery mechanism that is not tedious (e.g., no mix of class definitions and do-its) - Better system integration: - OSProcess reliable and working for all major platforms - FFI/Alien; bindings to external libraries - A mature HTTP client (->WebClient looks good) - A decent Smalltalk library to interact with the file system - Clients for new DBs (was mentioned before) - OAuth (was mentioned before) Cheers, Adrian On Aug 2, 2010, at 21:50 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi guys > > with the experience around the XMLRPC project, ESUG wants to change strategy to help growing business at the technical > level. So what are the key areas where you think that effort should be supported to help you making business in smalltalk? > > Stef > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] About overlapping packages :(

by Tudor Girba

Yes, that would be an option. The problem with this is that you have to change everything from the beginning. The route of first mirroring the categories is smoother because first you can focus on the tools and when everything works well, you can remove categories with a construction that goes along the lines you suggest. Cheers, Doru On 3 Aug 2010, at 04:10, Igor Stasenko wrote: > Potentially, user could state explicitly to which package belongs > given class/method, ignoring all naming stuff. > An alternative approach is to disentangle the category name from > package name and matching logic. > Instead of > > ProtoObject subclass: #Object > instanceVariableNames: '' > classVariableNames: 'DependentsFields' > poolDictionaries: '' > category: 'Kernel-Objects' > > change it to: > > ProtoObject subclass: #Object > instanceVariableNames: '' > classVariableNames: 'DependentsFields' > poolDictionaries: '' > category: 'Objects' > package: 'Kernel' > > or as separate doit: > > !ProtoObject subclass: #Object > instanceVariableNames: '' > classVariableNames: 'DependentsFields' > poolDictionaries: '' > category: 'Objects'.! > !Object package: 'Kernel'.! > > On 2 August 2010 10:33, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > wrote: >> >> On Aug 1, 2010, at 10:40 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >> >>> Hi Stef, >>> >>> I would go for first mirroring categories. Like this, Monticello >>> would still work as expected, and we can just focus on improving >>> the image based tools/concepts. >> >> >> I know this is why I'm doing it slowly and with some pain... :) >> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> On 1 Aug 2010, at 22:02, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Stef, >>>>> >>>>> Are you perhaps running into problems with mapping category >>>>> names to packages? The Dolphin approach to that is to avoid the >>>>> topic: just present a list of packages and make the user pick >>>>> one, after which the class/method/etc. is packaged. The >>>>> resulting package system might then suffer the indignity of >>>>> cyclic prerequisites, but there are ways to help the user fix >>>>> that. I am not saying it is the correct solution (nor >>>>> suggesting that it is not) - just reporting what Object Arts >>>>> did. They got so many things *really* right that I default to >>>>> trusting them. >>>> >>>> This is what my implementation does. No magic matching. Just a >>>> list of classes and methods. >>>> Now if I do not support the * convention of packageinfo it means >>>> that we will not be able to load and save >>>> packages in a compatible form. We could do that and it would save >>>> me a lot of work. But people have to agree and understand the >>>> consequences. Of course we could do a MCPackageInfor specific >>>> loader that loads and convert MC packages. >>>> But this means that the packages will not be able to be used in >>>> Squeak. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Sometimes the best solution is not the best solution." >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- www.tudorgirba.com "Be rather willing to give than demanding to get."

Aug. 3, 2010