August 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Instantiating an abstract class

by Alexandre Bergel

> Ok, I'm going slightly off-topic here. But what makes me wonder is that it is > > Behavior>>isAbstractClass > > and not > > Class>>isAbstractClass Good point. Someone else agree with this change? If yes, I do it. > And wouldn't it than be > > Class>>basicNew > self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. > ^ super basicNew > > if you want to avoid abstract classes being instantiated? Not to forget basicNew: The whole mailing list will express its wrath if you do this. > Just a question. Ah, it was just a question. Fine then :-) Alexandre > > Norbert > >>> >>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Stanislav Paskalev <kshorg(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> And it will also require modifying the Pharo by Example book that says >>>> that there's nothing wrong with instantiating abstract classes and >>>> that there is no *abstract* class marker in this sense, only abstract >>>> methods. >>>> >>>> So, why would try to convert Pharo to another language ? >>>> >>>> Stanislav Paskalev >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: >>>>> Hi! >>>>> >>>>> Just wondering. What about redefining new into: >>>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>>>> Behavior>>new >>>>> "Answer a new initialized instance of the receiver (which is a class) with no indexable variables. Fail if the class is indexable." >>>>> self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. >>>>> ^ self basicNew initialize >>>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>>>> >>>>> This may break a lot of code however. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> -- >>>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> -- >>> Lukas Renggli >>> www.lukas-renggli.ch >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Aug. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Poll: missing libraries to support business

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 11:40 PM, GermÃ¡n Arduino <garduino(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Mariano: > > I was thinking the same (or use the already existing "Ideas" page). But I > can't > modify nor create new pages. > > yes, maybe you are right. I forgot about that wiki page. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/IdeasToImplement It seems that first it needs an update as some things have already been done ;) > Cheers. > > > 2010/8/10 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > > It would be nice of someone can collect aaaaall these ideas, and the > future > > ideas that derive from the different threads, and put them together > > somewhere. I am not sure if a issue is the best approach. > > > > I would create a wiki page where all that information is written in kind > of > > bullet. With that, we have a big lists of projects of interest. Maybe > people > > is interested in doing a project maybe for university, master, or maybe > > because it just have time. > > > > For each bullet we can also link to the thread of discussion for example. > > This list will be a kind of wishlist for Pharo. > > > > Hopefully someone has time to write this down... > > > > Cheers > > > > Mariano > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Hilaire Fernandes > > <hilaire.fernandes(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> - loading binary code in an existging Pharo installation. It will ease > >> to make very tiny Pharo application. Useful for plateform with limited > >> resources. > >> > >> Hilaire > >> > >> Le 10/08/2010 14:37, Stephan Eggermont a Ã©crit : > >> > Philippe wrote: > >> >> Rather than imagining what problems non-users could have I'd focus on > >> >> what problems existing users have. Instead of building libraries that > >> >> you'll have to maintain forever I'd focus in infrastructure that > allows > >> >> users to write the libraries they need themselves. > >> > > >> >> Executive summary: > >> >> - HTTP(S) > >> >> - SqueakDBX > >> >> - VM/Cog/kernel/FFI/Alien > >> > > >> > - making it possible to use all the memory in my system: 64 bit. > >> > > >> > Stephan > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Aug. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo benchmarks ?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

2010/8/11 Cyrille Delaunay <cy.delaunay(a)gmail.com> > Hello, > > We are looking for any kind of benchmark in pharo, we would like to include > such benchmarks in a reporting system for Pharo. > > Hi. This is an EXCELLENT idea and I really really hope you can make it. I would love to have an addon to Hudson that not only runs the tets, but also the benchmarks. With this, we can see the impact of every system update. At least, what we cover with the benchmarks. What I know is this: http://map.squeak.org/package/3273bc19-5799-4f0d-b303-acff5ffab9e6 http://www.squeaksource.com/SystemBenchmarks They probably won't work out of the box in Pharo but with some changes they may work. I don't know. But Marcus Denker or Adrian may help you much more than me. Cheers Mariano > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Aug. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Instantiating an abstract class

by Lukas Renggli

On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: > >> Yes please don't add that. > > This is not my intention. But I just discovered some bugs in my test because I instantiated a class that shouldn't be instantiated since it is abstract. > If now we close our eyes and dream about a clean oo language. Will forbidding to instantiate an abstract class a wished feature? > > > I am also against of this change. We should continue to have flexible language and not to convert this in Java. In addition, I MAY want to instantiate Abstract classes. > Sometime you are doing prototypes, or TDD, and you want to instantiate an object of an abstract class. Even if you have a subclassResponsability. I don't care. Maybe I am not testing that right now, nor showing that to my client. > > I think the correct way to detect your kind of problems is with Lint. If it is not already done, maybe it could be added. There is a rule that checks for that, I think it is called "refers to abstract class". I don't have an image at hand to verify. It could be extended to take a declaration like #isAbstractClass into account. Lukaz > > Cheers > > Mariano > > > Cheers, > Alexandre > >> >> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Stanislav Paskalev <kshorg(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> And it will also require modifying the Pharo by Example book that says >>> that there's nothing wrong with instantiating abstract classes and >>> that there is no *abstract* class marker in this sense, only abstract >>> methods. >>> >>> So, why would try to convert Pharo to another language ? >>> >>> Stanislav Paskalev >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: >>>> Hi! >>>> >>>> Just wondering. What about redefining new into: >>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>>> Behavior>>new >>>> Â Â Â Â "Answer a new initialized instance of the receiver (which is a class) with no indexable variables. Fail if the class is indexable." >>>> Â Â Â Â self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. >>>> Â Â Â Â ^ self basicNew initialize >>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>>> >>>> This may break a lot of code however. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel Â http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> -- >> Lukas Renggli >> www.lukas-renggli.ch >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel Â http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

Aug. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo benchmarks ?

by Alexandre Bergel

> We are looking for any kind of benchmark in pharo, we would like to include such benchmarks in a reporting system for Pharo. Excellent idea. I have plenty of benchmarks for the applications I develop, but none specific to Pharo. Do you have in mind a particular reporting system? I have written HealthReportProducer, a small class that helps me to write benchmarks. Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Aug. 11, 2010

[Pharo-project] Pharo benchmarks ?

by Cyrille Delaunay

Hello, We are looking for any kind of benchmark in pharo, we would like to include such benchmarks in a reporting system for Pharo.

Aug. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Instantiating an abstract class

by Norbert Hartl

On 11.08.2010, at 15:23, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >> Yes please don't add that. > > This is not my intention. But I just discovered some bugs in my test because I instantiated a class that shouldn't be instantiated since it is abstract. > If now we close our eyes and dream about a clean oo language. Will forbidding to instantiate an abstract class a wished feature? > Ok, I'm going slightly off-topic here. But what makes me wonder is that it is Behavior>>isAbstractClass and not Class>>isAbstractClass And wouldn't it than be Class>>basicNew self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. ^ super basicNew if you want to avoid abstract classes being instantiated? Not to forget basicNew: Just a question. Norbert >> >> On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Stanislav Paskalev <kshorg(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> And it will also require modifying the Pharo by Example book that says >>> that there's nothing wrong with instantiating abstract classes and >>> that there is no *abstract* class marker in this sense, only abstract >>> methods. >>> >>> So, why would try to convert Pharo to another language ? >>> >>> Stanislav Paskalev >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: >>>> Hi! >>>> >>>> Just wondering. What about redefining new into: >>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>>> Behavior>>new >>>> "Answer a new initialized instance of the receiver (which is a class) with no indexable variables. Fail if the class is indexable." >>>> self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. >>>> ^ self basicNew initialize >>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>>> >>>> This may break a lot of code however. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> -- >> Lukas Renggli >> www.lukas-renggli.ch >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] little pictures of you :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

not really convinced. On Aug 11, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > Wouldn't Facebook do exactly this? > > Adrian > > On Aug 11, 2010, at 12:47 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> the pharo web site does not support that yet :) >> but I would love to have some pictures of you because this is not that fun to talk daily with people >> when we do not even know their faces so we could start to build a pharo fun community. >> Let me know what you think. >> >> Stef >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Aug. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Instantiating an abstract class

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu>wrote: > > Yes please don't add that. > > This is not my intention. But I just discovered some bugs in my test > because I instantiated a class that shouldn't be instantiated since it is > abstract. > If now we close our eyes and dream about a clean oo language. Will > forbidding to instantiate an abstract class a wished feature? > > I am also against of this change. We should continue to have flexible language and not to convert this in Java. In addition, I MAY want to instantiate Abstract classes. Sometime you are doing prototypes, or TDD, and you want to instantiate an object of an abstract class. Even if you have a subclassResponsability. I don't care. Maybe I am not testing that right now, nor showing that to my client. I think the correct way to detect your kind of problems is with Lint. If it is not already done, maybe it could be added. Cheers Mariano > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > > > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Stanislav Paskalev <kshorg(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> And it will also require modifying the Pharo by Example book that says > >> that there's nothing wrong with instantiating abstract classes and > >> that there is no *abstract* class marker in this sense, only abstract > >> methods. > >> > >> So, why would try to convert Pharo to another language ? > >> > >> Stanislav Paskalev > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu> > wrote: > >>> Hi! > >>> > >>> Just wondering. What about redefining new into: > >>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > >>> Behavior>>new > >>> "Answer a new initialized instance of the receiver (which is a > class) with no indexable variables. Fail if the class is indexable." > >>> self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class > cannot be instantiated' ]. > >>> ^ self basicNew initialize > >>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > >>> > >>> This may break a lot of code however. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Alexandre > >>> -- > >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > -- > > Lukas Renggli > > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Aug. 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Instantiating an abstract class

by Alexandre Bergel

> Yes please don't add that. This is not my intention. But I just discovered some bugs in my test because I instantiated a class that shouldn't be instantiated since it is abstract. If now we close our eyes and dream about a clean oo language. Will forbidding to instantiate an abstract class a wished feature? Cheers, Alexandre > > On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Stanislav Paskalev <kshorg(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> And it will also require modifying the Pharo by Example book that says >> that there's nothing wrong with instantiating abstract classes and >> that there is no *abstract* class marker in this sense, only abstract >> methods. >> >> So, why would try to convert Pharo to another language ? >> >> Stanislav Paskalev >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre(a)bergel.eu> wrote: >>> Hi! >>> >>> Just wondering. What about redefining new into: >>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>> Behavior>>new >>> "Answer a new initialized instance of the receiver (which is a class) with no indexable variables. Fail if the class is indexable." >>> self isAbstractClass ifTrue: [ self error: 'An abstract class cannot be instantiated' ]. >>> ^ self basicNew initialize >>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >>> >>> This may break a lot of code however. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Aug. 11, 2010