July 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Optimize Pharo for slow horse

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

instead of gradual typing I prefer the term pluggable types because it is really clear what it means. On Jul 12, 2010, at 10:03 PM, Johan Fabry wrote: > > Gradual typing could help there, doing optimisations where possible. Eric has a PhD student (Oscar) working on gradual typing, with Pharo as the test bed. Next semester there should start a second one with me (Esteban) that is going to look at the vm side of things: if type info is available, use it to optimise ... > > So, we are working on it ;-) > > On 12 Jul 2010, at 15:53, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> - high optimized (I would be curious to know if we could "seal" some packages and in this case use a lot of inlining > > -- > Johan Fabry > jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 12, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Optimize Pharo for slow horse

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I would love to hear more about oscar. I would love to know where the libraries could be improved to have more coherent type information. I told him when I visited you but so far we got no feedback. We will see if there are some results. Stef > > Gradual typing could help there, doing optimisations where possible. Eric has a PhD student (Oscar) working on gradual typing, with Pharo as the test bed. Next semester there should start a second one with me (Esteban) that is going to look at the vm side of things: if type info is available, use it to optimise ... > > So, we are working on it ;-) > > On 12 Jul 2010, at 15:53, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> - high optimized (I would be curious to know if we could "seal" some packages and in this case use a lot of inlining > > -- > Johan Fabry > jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 12, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Optimize Pharo for slow horse

by Johan Fabry

Gradual typing could help there, doing optimisations where possible. Eric has a PhD student (Oscar) working on gradual typing, with Pharo as the test bed. Next semester there should start a second one with me (Esteban) that is going to look at the vm side of things: if type info is available, use it to optimise ... So, we are working on it ;-) On 12 Jul 2010, at 15:53, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > - high optimized (I would be curious to know if we could "seal" some packages and in this case use a lot of inlining -- Johan Fabry jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

July 12, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Optimize Pharo for slow horse

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Your joke remind me a funny event occurring one year ago. I was chatting with an old friend working in the bank sector in Geneva. He asked me what's up today, I told him my interest in Smalltalk, he joked I was interested in computer archeology. It looked funny to me as well. > > Your friend is right: we still use IT of the 70s... > But maybe he's still using those of the late 60s himself (you know,{}, no boolean, source files, include files, preprocessor directives, compiler flags,...) > That's something I usually answer. > > Nicolas :) Even if it would be good to invent the next generation - secure - extremely modular/malleable (bootstrap and coevolution of the vm would be really cool) - high optimized (I would be curious to know if we could "seal" some packages and in this case use a lot of inlining - customizable memory management - better mop Stef

July 12, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Optimize Pharo for slow horse

by Nicolas Cellier

2010/7/12 Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire.fernandes(a)gmail.com> > Le 12/07/2010 18:08, Levente Uzonyi a Ã©crit : > > Which tweaking can be applied to the image for a better user experience? >>> >> >> You can use MVC, it works well on much slower computers... oh wait... >> >> Sorry, I couldn't resist. :) >> > > Your joke remind me a funny event occurring one year ago. I was chatting > with an old friend working in the bank sector in Geneva. He asked me what's > up today, I told him my interest in Smalltalk, he joked I was interested in > computer archeology. It looked funny to me as well. > Your friend is right: we still use IT of the 70s... But maybe he's still using those of the late 60s himself (you know,{}, no boolean, source files, include files, preprocessor directives, compiler flags,...) That's something I usually answer. Nicolas > > Try getting rid of gradients, dropshadows, etc. Use a plain old strikefont >> > > Yes, the sugar theme is flat black and white. > > > without anti-aliasing. If you can build a custom vm, make sure that you >> optimize it for the platform and build all modules external, except for >> > > > Yes, beside -Ox option are there any additional one you know about to be > effective? > > those which are loaded when the image starts. You can also try using the >> new StackVM. >> > > Will do later. > > Thanks for your tips. > > Hilaire > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 12, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Optimize Pharo for slow horse

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> You can use MVC, it works well on much slower computers... oh wait... :) Levente it was a good one. :) > Sorry, I couldn't resist. :) :) I know the feeling. Now we removed MVC from pharo not because we did not value it but because we want a clean infrastructure (where several UI system could be loaded) and this was not with a isMorphic code everywhere that we could move. So sometimes you have to take decision so that you can get again agile so that you can reconsider your own decision. > Try getting rid of gradients, dropshadows, etc. Use a plain old strikefont > without anti-aliasing. If you can build a custom vm, make sure that you optimize it for the platform and build all modules external, except for those which are loaded when the image starts. You can also try using the new StackVM. > And you can also run the following version of the browser test to see where can you improve the performance: > > | savedMorphs | > savedMorphs := World submorphs. > World removeAllMorphs."heh, heh" > [ > [ > 10 timesRepeat: [ Browser fullOnClass: Object selector: #yourself ]. > World submorphs do: [ :m | m delete. self currentWorld doOneCycle] ] > ensure: [ World addAllMorphs: savedMorphs ] ] timeProfile. > > > Levente > >> >> Thanks to share any thought, even random ones. >> >> >> Hilaire >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 12, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] iPhone Cog Stack VM, performance numbers

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

This is an excellent news and the benchmark is a realistic action! Thanks you all! On Jul 12, 2010, at 9:01 PM, John McIntosh wrote: > As always it's difficult to determine how best to benchmark. So given: > > | savedMorphs | > savedMorphs := World submorphs. > World removeAllMorphs. > self halt. > ^ [[10 > timesRepeat: [Browser fullOnClass: Object selector: #yourself]. > World submorphs > do: [:m | > m delete. > self currentWorld doOneCycle]] > ensure: [World addAllMorphs: savedMorphs]] timeToRun inspect > > > I can say that the Cog Stack VM on the iPhone produces numbers like > > 48.081 seconds > 47.858 seconds > > The original VM did: > > 74.415 seconds > 74.257 seconds > > making the iPhone COG VM 1.55x faster > > > A 2.33ghz mac book pro mac vm 5.7b1 does it in about 8.3 seconds > with a COG JIT VM 5.8 that takes 2.6 seconds or about 3.2 faster > > -- > =========================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > =========================================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 12, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Optimize Pharo for slow horse

by Hilaire Fernandes

Le 12/07/2010 18:08, Levente Uzonyi a Ã©crit : >> Which tweaking can be applied to the image for a better user experience? > > You can use MVC, it works well on much slower computers... oh wait... > > Sorry, I couldn't resist. :) Your joke remind me a funny event occurring one year ago. I was chatting with an old friend working in the bank sector in Geneva. He asked me what's up today, I told him my interest in Smalltalk, he joked I was interested in computer archeology. It looked funny to me as well. > Try getting rid of gradients, dropshadows, etc. Use a plain old strikefont Yes, the sugar theme is flat black and white. > without anti-aliasing. If you can build a custom vm, make sure that you > optimize it for the platform and build all modules external, except for Yes, beside -Ox option are there any additional one you know about to be effective? > those which are loaded when the image starts. You can also try using the > new StackVM. Will do later. Thanks for your tips. Hilaire

July 12, 2010

[Pharo-project] iPhone Cog Stack VM, performance numbers

by John McIntosh

As always it's difficult to determine how best to benchmark. So given: | savedMorphs | savedMorphs := World submorphs. World removeAllMorphs. self halt. ^ [[10 timesRepeat: [Browser fullOnClass: Object selector: #yourself]. World submorphs do: [:m | m delete. self currentWorld doOneCycle]] ensure: [World addAllMorphs: savedMorphs]] timeToRun inspect I can say that the Cog Stack VM on the iPhone produces numbers like 48.081 seconds 47.858 seconds The original VM did: 74.415 seconds 74.257 seconds making the iPhone COG VM 1.55x faster A 2.33ghz mac book pro mac vm 5.7b1 does it in about 8.3 seconds with a COG JIT VM 5.8 that takes 2.6 seconds or about 3.2 faster -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.Â http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

July 12, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Optimize Pharo for slow horse

by Hilaire Fernandes

Le 12/07/2010 18:04, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > thanks for trying. > did you try cuis to see a difference? No > I know that juan optimize scrollbars and others.

July 12, 2010