July 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Magma on 1.1 one click image

by Torsten Bergmann

>I am putting together a release without underscore assignments. I changed the ConfigurationOfMagma to allow underscores before load (so it should load in Squeak/Pharo 1.0/1.1) until this is finally fixed. See "1.1r2" and #preLoadForPharo So Magma is loadable - but still comes up with a unresolved reference to FlapTab (which is not in Pharo). Hit proceed here. I think there is more work to do here since WriteBarrier also references unknown classes like "BytecodeGenerator" ... Bye T. -- GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

July 29, 2010

[Pharo-project] Conflic between Shout and PluggableTextMorph in Pharo 1.2

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi. If you try to load Shout, you will have the error: 'styler is already defined in PluggableTextMorph' The problem is that the Shut class PluggableShoutMorph subclass PluggableTextMorph. PluggableShoutMorph has its own instVar 'styler' which PluggableTextMorph doesn't have in Pharo 1.1 But in Pharo 1.2 (I don't know why) PluggableTextMorph has its own instVar 'styler'....thus, the problem. Of course, if I remove the instVar 'styler' from PluggableShoutMorph it shoud load...but I am not sure if this is the correct action. Thanks for the help in advance Mariano

July 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo 1.1/1.2 and class names in Chinese

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Em 29/07/2010 03:10, laurent laffont < laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com > escreveu: > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Nicolas Cellier > > wrote: > > > > > Once upon a time I wondered if it wouldn't be possible to > > > translate the whole sources in any language (via a Dictionary). > > > In any other language, we (think of a child) must learn to > > > "talk' to computer in computer own language... So an > > > apprentice has to learn a new language anyway Be it an english > > > computer language is thus not that important. However, one of > > > the nice properties of Smalltalk is enabling "talking" to the > > > machine in a language close to our natural language, and that > > > lowers the barriers. So the question of natural language > > > naturally arises. > > > > > > 2010/7/28 Carla F. Griggio Well, that > > last comment reminded me of something: I've read code written in > > english by people that clearly didn't > > know a lot of english, and it kept me weeks thinking that the code > > did something that it didn't (and, of course, it was more > > difficult > > to realize why the code didn't behave like it was saying :P). > > So... as writing everything in english can be a solution, it can > > be a big problem too :( > > > And a lot (majority ?) of developpers don't want to use English, or > don't understand English, or don't want to try to understand > English, or don't have the courage to try to understand English. And > they need to communicate their ideas / code with others developpers > in the same position :) I think you're heading to a position I've already discussed several years ago with Jecel (not surprisingly when he was teaching a tutorial on Smalltalk) on the issue of non native English speakers 'lose' a bit of the user friendliness of certain programming languages because they need to create a full 'dictionary' in their heads about a certain programming concept and the [foreign] language they need to memorize. He gave this example (IIRC): NNN FOR I=1 TO 120 NEXT I which for the Canadian boys he was accompanying they read as 'natural language', whereas Brazilian children had to memorize that the 'tokens' "FOR" "TO" and "NEXT" had to written in a certain syntax to create a loop in this language. The same happens in Smalltalk as most of the methods being in English, when I. Tomek in his book or introductory paper mentions that it is natural to have in Smalltalk: |rusty| rusty := Dog new. rusty bark. For a non native English speaker this syntax is tantamount to some obscure mathematical notation. > I don't like writing in French, it's not suitable for > programming. Have you ever seen WinDev code with auto-translation ? I cannot tell if it was successful or not but I remember in the seventies it was reported that in France there was an attempt to translate to French the COBOL keywords. Any account on the outcome of that? > You end with: i est un entier. x, y sont des entiers. > But I think it should be possible to have code in Chinese. I think it should be possible to have code coded in such a way it could be written in Chinese and understood [tranlated?] in any language in use in the planet ;-) Cheers, -- Cesar Rabak

July 29, 2010

[Pharo-project] what about deprecating deprecated: ?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi folks. Yes, I know it sounds weird...but just read We said (don't remember when) that when we deprecate a method, we give a whole release time so that eternal packages can fix they senders. And then in the next release we remove it. For example, in Pharo 1.1 we deprecate the methodX. Then, in Pharo 1.2, we should remove it, together with the rest of methods depreacted in Pharo 1.1. How to detect the methods deprecated in Pharo 1.1? You need to take a 1.1 image and look there. But to solve this, and other problems, we have not only deprecate: but also deprecated: anExplanationString on: date in: version This is muuuch better and we can even then automate code so that it automatically removes the deprecation of a previous image. You can browse and see where each method was deprecated. It would be cool if everybody uses that method instead of deprecated. And thus, it would be cool to deprecate deprecated: hahahahaha what do you think? cheers mariano

July 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Magma on 1.1 one click image

by Chris Muller

I am putting together a release without underscore assignments. 2010/7/28 Ramiro Diaz Trepat <ramiro(a)diaztrepat.name>: > Hi fellow pharoers, > Magma fails to load from the commands on the Pharo 1.1 workspace. > In my oppinion they should be removed from the that workspace, it gives > users a sloppy impression of the release. > I don't think the image has to be sacred and untouched, we can remove 5 > lines from a workspace, it will be good for Pharo 1.1. > Aside from that minor detail, I am enormously happy and grateful to all for > this release. > Cheers > > r > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Books for summer (was: Time Machine)

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

LOL Books for mid year vacation, perhaps!? Em 29/07/2010 02:43, laurent laffont < laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com > escreveu: On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 11:45 PM, <csrabak(a)bol.com.br> wrote: Em 26/07/2010 02:39, laurent laffont < laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com > escreveu: > Â And you Â dear Pharoers, Â what will you Â read this Â summer regarding > your computing/business activity ? > Laurent, I'll wait until summer arrives then I'll report back ;-P :D Should I change the subject to "Books for winter ?" Laurent _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

July 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] HTTP client library in Pharo?

by Francois Stephany

Hi Andrei, WebClient is probably the way to go. It is primarily developed for Squeak but I'm currently using it with Pharo 1.1. http://squeakingalong.wordpress.com/2010/05/05/webclient-and-webserver-for-… The tutorial in the Help section will help you to start. Francois On 29/07/10 18:06, Andrei Stebakov wrote: > I've been trying to find a library for Pharo/Squeak which would handle > GET/POST requests with the ability to manage cookies and deal with > https servers. > The HTTPSocket that's included in Pharo doesn't have cookies support. > I tried to find any library that handles cookies and there came up > CurlPlugin and SWHTTPClient. > SWHTTPClient page has a broken link to the source code > (http://map.squeak.org/package/15f42ec1-e93e-4bcf-ab2b-6746ae9d413f) > CurlPlugin package for Win32 that I found on the main project page > fails most of the tests and can't retrieve any http data. > I also found WebClient/WebServer library at > http://www.squeaksource.com/@QY3MLGU4hU3c8qcE/2xQek_iM which also > fails most tests after installation. > > I wonder what people in smalltalk community are using when they need > to do some web scraping when they need to keep some session in > cookies? > What would be the best library to invest time into (I am very new to Smalltalk)? > > Thank you, > Andrei -- francois.stephany(a)agilitic.com http://www.agilitic.com +32 (0)484/580.322

July 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] HTTP client library in Pharo?

by Lawson English

Welcome to the wonderful world of squeak: (Robin Williams genii voice on) Vast, Cosmic Programming Powers!!!! poorlymaintainedlibraries On 7/29/10 9:06 AM, Andrei Stebakov wrote: > I've been trying to find a library for Pharo/Squeak which would handle > GET/POST requests with the ability to manage cookies and deal with > https servers. > The HTTPSocket that's included in Pharo doesn't have cookies support. > I tried to find any library that handles cookies and there came up > CurlPlugin and SWHTTPClient. > SWHTTPClient page has a broken link to the source code > (http://map.squeak.org/package/15f42ec1-e93e-4bcf-ab2b-6746ae9d413f) > CurlPlugin package for Win32 that I found on the main project page > fails most of the tests and can't retrieve any http data. > I also found WebClient/WebServer library at > http://www.squeaksource.com/@QY3MLGU4hU3c8qcE/2xQek_iM which also > fails most tests after installation. > > I wonder what people in smalltalk community are using when they need > to do some web scraping when they need to keep some session in > cookies? > What would be the best library to invest time into (I am very new to Smalltalk)? > > Thank you, > Andrei > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >

July 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CogVM as official Pharo VM?

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Lukas, On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 2:00 AM, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 1) Cog VM seems to be aimed for x86 and 32 bits. You can read Eliot > quotes: > > "The Cog VM is a just-in-time compiler that currently supports only x86 > > So far I never felt the need for 64-bit images. > > > 3) Is it stable for production use? For example, I read that with > seaside > > there are some crashes. > > Seaside itself is not the problem, Eliot quickly fixed the remaining > issues with Continuations shortly after the open-source release of > Cog. and I still need to fix objects-as-methods but have no time right now. That's probably two to five days work to do right :/ > The problem are the sockets, they cause frequent random crashes > of the VM. > Do we have any more specific information on these socket-related crashes? (platform, crash reports, test cases, etc?) best Eliot > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 29, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CogVM as official Pharo VM?

by Eliot Miranda

2010/7/29 Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> > Hi guys, > > I would prepare a separate Pharo-Cog-Experimental one-clicks for now, to: > > - encourage Cog usage and discovering all bugs and side effects, which > will: > - let the Cog become production ready more quickly, but it: > - won't mislead people to consider Cog as production ready, because > such unintential misleading can put Cog unfairly in a bad light. > that a great approach Janko. thanks, Eliot > > Best regards > Janko > > On 29. 07. 2010 10:45, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > Hi folks. Hope Eliot is reading this thread. > > > > It is time to think in Pharo 1.2 and we need to discuss if we want to > > have CogVM as the standard Pharo VM. > > > > Most of us have tried it and found it incredible fast. So it would be > > very good to take advantage of it. But I think there are a couple of > > things to be discussed: > > > > 1) Cog VM seems to be aimed for x86 and 32 bits. You can read Eliot > quotes: > > "The Cog VM is a just-in-time compiler that currently supports only x86 > > > > No effort has been made to maintain 64-bit compatibility. Apologies, > > this was unaffordable." > > > > So...how much important is this for us? do we care? and if we want to do > > it, is it "doable" ? is it less doable than the normal squeak VM ? > > > > I really would like to have 64bits VM + 64bits images in a near > > future...but hat's just my thoguhts. > > > > 2) The status of the external plugins. Are they working with Cog ? Not > > only the "core plugings" but FFI, OSProcess (I read some problems with > > it), TrueType, etc... > > > > 3) Is it stable for production use? For example, I read that with > > seaside there are some crashes. > > > > 4) Depends on heroes. I never liked this idea. It has nothing to do with > > Eliot. He is very cool and helpful. But I wonder, do we understand the > > new VM and the changes? are we able to handle and fix it even without > > eliot ? > > > > 5) Integration to VMMaker. I saw that they started to merge cog > > (actually, I think only stack vm?) to the trunk of VMMaker. This is > > really good news. I hope everything is there and merged. > > > > 6) Binaries. It seems the official released didn't come with binaries. > > So we should compile it for each OS. > > > > > > Ok..that's all my thoughts. I would really like to have a discussion > > here and see what to do.....grrrrrr you are all in holidays, aren't you? > > hahah > > > > cheers > > > > Mariano > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Svetovalec za informatiko > Eranova d.o.o. > Ljubljana, Slovenija > www.eranova.si > tel: 01 514 22 55 > faks: 01 514 22 56 > gsm: 031 674 565 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

July 29, 2010