June 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

I think we should not reinvent the wheel in Pharo. I mean, Morphic is nice, although I would like to have native windows so that I can use my Mac expose features. But no, I have only one window. Then, I have something similar but implemented in Pharo using Mac + narrows. Then, you can have more than one workspace in the OS, why we need to implement the same in Pharo ? I also have tons of image, and each image (or more than one) for a project. Why don't you use your own OS virtual workspaces and spread you different images over the different workspaces? that's easier than Squeak Projects. And maybe faster and better supported. The ONLY problem is what people said about updating issues in all images. But, : - In Pharo we have a good package management system now (Metacello). If you use it correctly, you can define all your project dependencies (even working in a core or dev image). So you should be able to load your project in any image without any problem. - We release images quite frequently, much more than other dialects/languages. So...usually you don't have to wait too much to get a new image with the fixed issue. - How many times you find an issue that affects all your projects? I don't think this is very common. Usually, when I find a bug or a problem, is not "too" core in the sense that only affects me in a particular place, but not in all my other work. Cheers Mariano On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Geert Claes <geert.wl.claes(a)gmail.com>wrote: > > > Jochen Riekhof wrote: > > > >> The only thing I use projects for is to separate the different tasks I > am > >> working on at the same time (like spaces on the Mac), so I can have one > >> world where I'm working on a client project, and a whole other world if > >> I... > > > > Yep, thank you Sean - this more or less nails it. Squeak projects are > what > > comes closest to what i need to be able to quickly change context. It is > > perfectly ok to have them just in the image without any possibility for > > load/save. > > > > ... > > > > To summarize, I would be perfectly happy with a streamlined projects > > implementation that just gives you different view to dive into without > any > > need to save them outside the present image. > > > > Seems like most people agree here that the image is your project. > Something > that "just gives you a different view" within your live image is not really > what I would call a project and calling it that only adds to the confusion. > > It does sound like there is a group (not everyone has the same work > habbits) > that really likes the concept of virtual desktops within an image; desks, > spaces, workspaces .... > > Idea's are great and I like Stef's suggestion for someone to make a little > prototype to see if/how they can fit in Pharo. > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Can-I-use-Projects-in-Pharo-tp2239170p2241296.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial + ProfStefBrowser really cool

by laurent laffont

2010/6/3 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > Yes, it will be, in addition to other packages of Metacello. > > See thread: > http://forum.world.st/What-packages-to-load-from-Metacello-in-PharoDev-tp22… Cool, thanks (so many mails, I forgot this thread :) Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ > > > cheers > > Mariano > > On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:31 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> I hope :) >> >> Stef >> >> On Jun 2, 2010, at 8:47 PM, laurent laffont wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > I've just created a ConfigurationOfScamper using >> MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial (see >> http://code.google.com/p/metacello/) in ProfStefBrowser, it's really >> funny. >> > >> > Can MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial be included in Pharo (Dev) 1.1 >> ? >> > >> > Cheers, >> > >> > Laurent Laffont >> > >> > http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ >> > http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo

by Mariano Martinez Peck

2010/6/2 GermÃ¡n Leiva <leivagerman(a)gmail.com> > I'm thinking out load here ... > > In the debugger when a DNU is raised, for speeding up the programming in *"TDD > mode"**:* > > - The create button must add the method in the class of the receiver, > the possibility to choose a superclass of the receiver must be optional (I > don't like the recurrent asking...) in other button for example or having > different shortcuts from the keyboard > - If I send a message that I already know that will be a getter, some > option like "Create getter" could *automagically* create the method and > the instance variable. > - When we a accept a method for the first time the pop-ups saying > "Unkown selector please confirm, select or cancel" are really annoying and > decrease coding speed > - Same for the category pop-ups > - In the creation of a new class through "define new class" it will be > helpful to remember the last class category used > > GermÃ¡n, these are cool ideas. Some of them I think they are in the HernÃ¡n package. It would be greate to check which features does it have, and create (and code!) a list of new features, like this ones. > Some ToDo list supported from the environment and some facility for the > creation of test. > > All of the above maybe just make sense in *TDD mode* or not =P > > Yes, open a ticket and put the list. I would like you can code on this also but I guess you are busy with GSoC ;) > Cheers > > 2010/6/2 Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)inria.fr> > > The problems that I would like to see Pharo address are: >> - redundancies in unit tests >> - coverage of tests >> - classification of low and high levels of tests (implementation tests vs >> user stories) >> >> What are the tools to identify and solve this issues ? Research is needed >> :-) >> >> Alexandre >> >> >> >> On 2 Jun 2010, at 15:30, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >> > Hi all >> > >> > Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile >> platform for doing TDD. >> > What would be the changes that we could do support it. >> > I know that hernan did a package for that but not I would like to have a >> new list of items >> > to support it. >> > >> > Stef >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > GermÃ¡n Leiva > LeivaGerman(a)gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo

by Mariano Martinez Peck

What HernÃ¡n did is here: http://www.squeaksource.com/TDDFacilities.html That was for Pharo 1.0. For those that want to help in this subject I think the first step could be to load such package in a PharoCore1.1 and fix it in case it doesn't work. Then, it can be integrated as part of PharoCore. Although it may be cool to have a preference to enable or disable all this changes (more TDD oriented), as we are not doing TDD all the time and sometimes we want the normal behavior. Once we have that, we can start improving. For example, I would love also what Guille said: key bindings for the debugger. I would LOVE to have a Pharo less mouse oriented (I don't care who invented the mouse, I rather the keyboard). So..open a bug ticket and start to play. Cheers Mariano 2010/6/3 Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> > Hello, No I dont. Who is it? > > 2010/6/3 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > > do you happen to know tim mckinnon? >> >> Stef >> On Jun 3, 2010, at 12:13 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: >> >> > I use Mockery - my implementation SSpec idies. It is realy more >> powerfull, transparency and flexibility. >> > >> > With Mockery you dont need any special base classes for TestCases or >> mocks factory variables in code. You just use mocks where you want by Block >> creation scenarios: >> > >> > [:mock | >> > [sut doWith: mock] should lenient satisfy: [mock someMessage >> willReturn: #result] >> > ] runScenario. >> > >> > State specs like "5 should be an instance of: Integer" can be easely >> added by pragmas. >> > >> > And Its work in Pharo 1.0. >> > >> > Of course, It's needs more good stuff. But now I dont have enough time. >> > http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry.html >> > >> > 2010/6/3 Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> >> > >> > >> > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> > > >> > > Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile >> platform >> > > for doing TDD. >> > > What would be the changes that we could do support it. >> > > >> > >> > Coming from Ruby, it seemed like BDD was taking over the world, and was >> the >> > next step in TDD evolution, but I found few mentions of it in the Squeak >> > world. For my own projects, I use SSpec (which I have been fixing as I >> go >> > along). I only use "tests" with SUnit assertions for community >> projects, as >> > not to confuse or add additional dependencies. >> > >> > I think that core BDD support would be necessary to woo developers here, >> > especially from Ruby, where all the passion and conversation is around >> BDD. >> > >> > Sean >> > -- >> > View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/About-TDD-and-Pharo-tp2240686p2240877.html >> > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Can I use Projects in Pharo?

by Geert Claes

Jochen Riekhof wrote: > >> The only thing I use projects for is to separate the different tasks I am >> working on at the same time (like spaces on the Mac), so I can have one >> world where I'm working on a client project, and a whole other world if >> I... > > Yep, thank you Sean - this more or less nails it. Squeak projects are what > comes closest to what i need to be able to quickly change context. It is > perfectly ok to have them just in the image without any possibility for > load/save. > > ... > > To summarize, I would be perfectly happy with a streamlined projects > implementation that just gives you different view to dive into without any > need to save them outside the present image. > Seems like most people agree here that the image is your project. Something that "just gives you a different view" within your live image is not really what I would call a project and calling it that only adds to the confusion. It does sound like there is a group (not everyone has the same work habbits) that really likes the concept of virtual desktops within an image; desks, spaces, workspaces .... Idea's are great and I like Stef's suggestion for someone to make a little prototype to see if/how they can fit in Pharo. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Can-I-use-Projects-in-Pharo-tp2239170p2241296.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial + ProfStefBrowser really cool

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Yes, it will be, in addition to other packages of Metacello. See thread: http://forum.world.st/What-packages-to-load-from-Metacello-in-PharoDev-tp22… cheers Mariano On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:31 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > I hope :) > > Stef > > On Jun 2, 2010, at 8:47 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I've just created a ConfigurationOfScamper using > MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial (see > http://code.google.com/p/metacello/) in ProfStefBrowser, it's really > funny. > > > > Can MetacelloCreateConfigurationTutorial be included in Pharo (Dev) 1.1 ? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Laurent Laffont > > > > http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ > > http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo

by Denis Kudriashov

Hello, No I dont. Who is it? 2010/6/3 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > do you happen to know tim mckinnon? > > Stef > On Jun 3, 2010, at 12:13 AM, Denis Kudriashov wrote: > > > I use Mockery - my implementation SSpec idies. It is realy more > powerfull, transparency and flexibility. > > > > With Mockery you dont need any special base classes for TestCases or > mocks factory variables in code. You just use mocks where you want by Block > creation scenarios: > > > > [:mock | > > [sut doWith: mock] should lenient satisfy: [mock someMessage > willReturn: #result] > > ] runScenario. > > > > State specs like "5 should be an instance of: Integer" can be easely > added by pragmas. > > > > And Its work in Pharo 1.0. > > > > Of course, It's needs more good stuff. But now I dont have enough time. > > http://www.squeaksource.com/Mocketry.html > > > > 2010/6/3 Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> > > > > > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > > > > Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile > platform > > > for doing TDD. > > > What would be the changes that we could do support it. > > > > > > > Coming from Ruby, it seemed like BDD was taking over the world, and was > the > > next step in TDD evolution, but I found few mentions of it in the Squeak > > world. For my own projects, I use SSpec (which I have been fixing as I > go > > along). I only use "tests" with SUnit assertions for community projects, > as > > not to confuse or add additional dependencies. > > > > I think that core BDD support would be necessary to woo developers here, > > especially from Ruby, where all the passion and conversation is around > BDD. > > > > Sean > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/About-TDD-and-Pharo-tp2240686p2240877.html > > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo

by laurent laffont

In ruby world the tools I like most for TDD are: - autotest: when you save a file, autotest detects it are run automatically associated unit tests. http://ph7spot.com/musings/getting-started-with-autotest. For PHPUnit there's a light autotest-like http://gist.github.com/287950. I really like it as you have a smooth workflow, don't think about which test to run, quick feedback. Brings lot of confidence. - shoulda: macros, contexts and understandable tests. http://github.com/thoughtbot/shoulda. Laurent Laffont http://pharocasts.blogspot.com/ http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:30 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > Hi all > > Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile platform > for doing TDD. > What would be the changes that we could do support it. > I know that hernan did a package for that but not I would like to have a > new list of items > to support it. > > Stef > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

June 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] The Morphic 3 project

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

finishing something is always taking time and this is great to see you making progress on that front. For the PhD it could be full time job to sell that. Did you identify potential research group? Stef > Douglas Brebner wrote: >> On 02/06/2010 12:43, Juan Vuletich wrote: >>> Hi Folks, >>> >>> I'm new to this list, but many of you already know me. >>> >>> Morphic 3 is a deep redesign of the Morphic framework. It includes new rendering algorithms I developed that produce unparalleled visual quality. Really. This is the best 2d rendering in the world. You can take a look at www.jvuletich.org. I have been working a lot recently, and uploaded several very cool samples for you to see. >>> >> >> This is awesome :) >> >> I'm wondering though, what you intend for the input side. There's a lot of touch screen and multitouch devices around now which would be nice to directly support in addition to keyboard + mouse, things like pinch-zoom on a ZUI would be cool :) > Yes, that would be cool. I also thought about multi user multi touch tables, where I need to handle input form several fingers simultaneously, that can belong or not to the same hand (user). Also multiple standard and MIDI keyboards, continuous MIDI controllers, pen tablets, more "special" input devices, such as the voice and various devices designed for people with disabilities, etc... But I have done nothing of this yet. > > Cheers, > Juan Vuletich > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 3, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] About TDD and Pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

what is important for me is that we distinguish what is related to the UI flow from the loading of a specific tests libraries. RIght now I would like to concentrate on UI flow and tools interaction. Stef On Jun 2, 2010, at 11:40 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote: > > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >> Imagine that we would like to sell pharo (+ seaside) as THE agile platform >> for doing TDD. >> What would be the changes that we could do support it. >> > > Coming from Ruby, it seemed like BDD was taking over the world, and was the > next step in TDD evolution, but I found few mentions of it in the Squeak > world. For my own projects, I use SSpec (which I have been fixing as I go > along). I only use "tests" with SUnit assertions for community projects, as > not to confuse or add additional dependencies. > > I think that core BDD support would be necessary to woo developers here, > especially from Ruby, where all the passion and conversation is around BDD. > > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/About-TDD-and-Pharo-tp2240686p2240877.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

June 3, 2010