May 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Managing Pharo external packages with Metacello, please read!

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

nicolas all the information is in the metacello mailing-list and we already posted many mails on that topics in this mailing list. I'm sorry but I do not have the time to repeat again what we said. Now since I'm in a really good mood in a nutshell one repo per version Pharo1.0, Pharo11 ... MetacelloRepository containing configurationOfXXX frozen = all the dependent packages are copied locally + configuration ready to load using load. a project contain its single/or whatever configurationOfMyProject people publish the config to their repository and if they want they push from their repository to the version repository a version that they freeze (may be using tags) For Pharo core or pharo packages that we maintain we want to maintain it as a project. with its own repository and packages. Then we have a server that load configuration and barks if something wrong happen. And may be we kick out the configurationofXXX from MetacelloRepositories > Steph, > I understand how boring it may seem: > - you already discussed the subject over and over > - you already took decisions > and now we come later with new proposals, and ask you to reconsider > the work again... more than that. :) It looks like if we did not talk or think about what we are doing. > As for the Preferences/Settings, Pharo choices are probably very weel thought. > > However, every solution will come with trade offs, and it would be > good to have a rationale justifying the choices you made, and perhaps > more importantly justifying why you did abandon some solutions, > because some questions might be repeated in Pharo 1.2, 1.3, 2.0 ... > and find different answers in different context. Note that Squeak > evolutions might have influence on Pharo too, and it's part of the > context... > > I strongly encourage you to establish your rationale on Pharo grounds > - independently of Andreas proposals, put it on the Pharo wiki and let > us know the URL. > > You also know that Squeak goals are not exactly those of Pharo w.r.t. > backward compatibility, so Squeak can't just blindly replicate Pharo > solutions without a rationale. > > The merit of Andreas proposal is to try and establish such a > rationale. Without it, we're bound to repeat discussions again and > again, So to fix the problem consider that as our proposal. Stef

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Vertical scroll disappear with OB in Pharo 1.1

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > You mean in the textarea? > > That has always been like this. ups...you are right sorry. I thought it was only 1.1 but I checked in 1.0 and it is the same. > As soon as the minimal width of the > toolbar buttons is reached they push the textarea outside the window. > I don't know how to fix this. > I don't know. Maybe we can check in the default browser of PharoCore? there we don't have this problem. I have no idea how it is fixed, thus. Thanks Mariano > > Lukas > > > 2010/5/17 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > > Hi Lukas. In the latest code of OB in Pharo 1.1 if the size of the System > > Browser is too small, the vertical scroll disappear. > > > > I tried in PharoCore and there it doesn't happen. > > > > Look the two attached screenshots. > > > > Cheers > > > > mariano > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Managing Pharo external packages with Metacello, please read!

by Nicolas Cellier

Steph, I understand how boring it may seem: - you already discussed the subject over and over - you already took decisions and now we come later with new proposals, and ask you to reconsider the work again... As for the Preferences/Settings, Pharo choices are probably very weel thought. However, every solution will come with trade offs, and it would be good to have a rationale justifying the choices you made, and perhaps more importantly justifying why you did abandon some solutions, because some questions might be repeated in Pharo 1.2, 1.3, 2.0 ... and find different answers in different context. Note that Squeak evolutions might have influence on Pharo too, and it's part of the context... I strongly encourage you to establish your rationale on Pharo grounds - independently of Andreas proposals, put it on the Pharo wiki and let us know the URL. You also know that Squeak goals are not exactly those of Pharo w.r.t. backward compatibility, so Squeak can't just blindly replicate Pharo solutions without a rationale. The merit of Andreas proposal is to try and establish such a rationale. Without it, we're bound to repeat discussions again and again, Nicolas 2010/5/17 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > Elliot believe me we **really** discussed that over more than a year with dale and a couple of others. > We pushed metacello contrary to other people that said it was crap and bloated. > So may be we are a bit slow and not that smart but we want to give a try to the setup we have in mind. > Now we also want to have a list of packages which constitutes pharo-core that will be manage as a pharo-core > configuration. > > Stef > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Vertical scroll disappear with OB in Pharo 1.1

by Lukas Renggli

You mean in the textarea? That has always been like this. As soon as the minimal width of the toolbar buttons is reached they push the textarea outside the window. I don't know how to fix this. Lukas 2010/5/17 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > Hi Lukas. In the latest code of OB in Pharo 1.1 if the size of the System > Browser is too small, the vertical scroll disappear. > > I tried in PharoCore and there it doesn't happen. > > Look the two attached screenshots. > > Cheers > > mariano > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

May 17, 2010

[Pharo-project] Metacello and SourceTalk ...

by Geert Claes

SourceTalk/Monticello 2 hasn't been top priority because there have been plenty of other more urgent matters that required attention. Maybe with all the discussion around Metacello, Repositories, Pharo Release, Code Freeze, Continuous Integration etc ... it may be a good idea to use this momentum to look at SourceTalk/Monticello 2 again? The name SourceTalk probably makes more sense with the idea of the Repository serving the Squeak and Pharo communities. SourceTalk should probably also remove the need for projects to use Google Code simply for its Wiki and Issue Tracker. A number of other "Ideas To Implement" (http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/IdeasToImplement) have already made it to the next stage. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Metacello-and-SourceTalk-tp2219294p2219294.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] So...we freeze 1.1 ? (next steps?)

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:33 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > ok you won :) > so we will go beta. > > heehhhee > Now we will not open 1.2 right now because we can just take the time to do > 1.1 nice and there are plenty of stuff to do > around 1.1 and to prepare in the calm 1.1 > > > I agree :) Perfect. What I wouldn't do in core 1.1 now is to add new functionality. Let's concentrate in making pharo 1.1 better, tests green, etc. New functionality should wait for Pharo 1.2 (which will be not open right now) > Stef > > On May 17, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > > >>> But now we should go beta=releaseCandidate1 > >>> > >>> > >> No, I don't agree. That's not the same. One thing is beta and another > thing > >> is a release candidate. > > > > While I appreciate that Stef wants to push out 1.1. quickly > > since there are so many good things in this release we > > should clearly start to build a beta, test it and then > > (based on these results) have a first release candidate. > > > > Pharo core is stable - but is pharo-dev already? We really > > should have a beta. We all know: Pharo = core + packages > > > >> Imagine you are going to download a software which is in RELEASE > CANDIDATE > >> and has a lot of problems and bugs....is not good for marketing. > > > > especially if the website says: "Pharo is an attractive platform to build > and deploy mission critical Smalltalk applications." > > > > So +1 for Mariano here > > > > Mariano: what is the state of building a dev image from > > the core for 1.1.? Last time I tried the ConfigurationOfPharo with 1.1. > > I run into the condense changes problem - which I thing was fixed now. > > > > Thx > > T. > > -- > > GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! > > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] So...we freeze 1.1 ? (next steps?)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

ok you won :) so we will go beta. Now we will not open 1.2 right now because we can just take the time to do 1.1 nice and there are plenty of stuff to do around 1.1 and to prepare in the calm 1.1 Stef On May 17, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: >>> But now we should go beta=releaseCandidate1 >>> >>> >> No, I don't agree. That's not the same. One thing is beta and another thing >> is a release candidate. > > While I appreciate that Stef wants to push out 1.1. quickly > since there are so many good things in this release we > should clearly start to build a beta, test it and then > (based on these results) have a first release candidate. > > Pharo core is stable - but is pharo-dev already? We really > should have a beta. We all know: Pharo = core + packages > >> Imagine you are going to download a software which is in RELEASE CANDIDATE >> and has a lot of problems and bugs....is not good for marketing. > > especially if the website says: "Pharo is an attractive platform to build and deploy mission critical Smalltalk applications." > > So +1 for Mariano here > > Mariano: what is the state of building a dev image from > the core for 1.1.? Last time I tried the ConfigurationOfPharo with 1.1. > I run into the condense changes problem - which I thing was fixed now. > > Thx > T. > -- > GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] So...we freeze 1.1 ? (next steps?)

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > >> But now we should go beta=releaseCandidate1 > >> > >> > >No, I don't agree. That's not the same. One thing is beta and another > thing > >is a release candidate. > > While I appreciate that Stef wants to push out 1.1. quickly > since there are so many good things in this release we > should clearly start to build a beta, test it and then > (based on these results) have a first release candidate. > > Pharo core is stable - but is pharo-dev already? We really > should have a beta. We all know: Pharo = core + packages > > >Imagine you are going to download a software which is in RELEASE CANDIDATE > >and has a lot of problems and bugs....is not good for marketing. > > especially if the website says: "Pharo is an attractive platform to build > and deploy mission critical Smalltalk applications." > > So +1 for Mariano here > > Mariano: what is the state of building a dev image from > the core for 1.1.? Last time I tried the ConfigurationOfPharo with 1.1. > I run into the condense changes problem - which I thing was fixed now. > > It should load perfectly and work good. But try in latest core (at least 11360). And yes, the condenseChanges takes a life (a lot of time). So, don't kill the image. It is not freeze. Just take a beer and wait :) > Thx > T. > -- > GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 17, 2010

[Pharo-project] So...we freeze 1.1 ? (next steps?)

by Torsten Bergmann

>> But now we should go beta=releaseCandidate1 >> >> >No, I don't agree. That's not the same. One thing is beta and another thing >is a release candidate. While I appreciate that Stef wants to push out 1.1. quickly since there are so many good things in this release we should clearly start to build a beta, test it and then (based on these results) have a first release candidate. Pharo core is stable - but is pharo-dev already? We really should have a beta. We all know: Pharo = core + packages >Imagine you are going to download a software which is in RELEASE CANDIDATE >and has a lot of problems and bugs....is not good for marketing. especially if the website says: "Pharo is an attractive platform to build and deploy mission critical Smalltalk applications." So +1 for Mariano here Mariano: what is the state of building a dev image from the core for 1.1.? Last time I tried the ConfigurationOfPharo with 1.1. I run into the condense changes problem - which I thing was fixed now. Thx T. -- GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

May 17, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] So...we freeze 1.1 ? (next steps?)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

So what do you suggest beta for two three weeks then rc1 Stef On May 17, 2010, at 10:00 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 9:29 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Unstable is alpha. We called it that way so that people do not start to use it :) > > Ok, we can tag it beta then. > > But now we should go beta=releaseCandidate1 > > > No, I don't agree. That's not the same. One thing is beta and another thing is a release candidate. > > > Stef > > On May 16, 2010, at 11:18 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > > > > On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 11:16 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > check the network problem. > > But we can release rc1 anytime now. > > > > > > No, please. We are not in a RC yet. We should first go as alpha, then beta and finally RC. > > We cannot go in a RC with the first build ever. > > > > Cheers > > > > Mariano > > > > > > Stef > > > > On May 16, 2010, at 11:00 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > > > > > Mariano, > > > > > > What is needed for Pharo 1.1? Not much I feel. I produced yesterday a Pharo1.1 from a core, and it works perfectly, including condenseChange. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Alexandre > > > > > > > > > On 16 May 2010, at 11:14, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > > > > >> We are basically ready > > >> Waiting for feedback on network. > > >> > > >> Stef > > >> > > >> > > >> On May 16, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > >> > > >>> We said that for middle May we were going to freeze 1.1. This means, no more new features or refactors. Just bug fixes. So, the next steps can be: > > >>> > > >>> - Release a PharoCore1.1 with the last version we have so far tagged as alpha1 (please, put this tag in the zip, .image and .changes). This may be, for example: Pharo-1.1-11360-alpha1.image > > >>> - Build and release a Pharo 1.1 alpha1 based on such core (now we have almost all dev tools working well in 1.1) > > >>> - Make publish all new VMs (for each OS) > > >>> > > >>> Then the idea is that people/developers start to play with Pharo 1.1. It may be quite unstable as this is the first release for 1.1. People should try to load their own packages, adapt them (if necessary) to 1.1, and report all issues they find (and fixes!!). But they should keep in mind this the first alpha ;) > > >>> > > >>> With these, we will be testing: new VMs, PharoCore, PharoDev tools, and external packages (from other people). > > >>> > > >>> Pharo team at the same time, continues to work, fixing and integrating. We make new versions as we have been doing so far. When we consider, we release an alpha2....then beta, then RC and finally Pharo 1.1. > > >>> > > >>> now...do you think there is an issue that is so important to be fixed/included in the first Pharo1.1 even being a first alpha ? > > >>> > > >>> Cheers > > >>> > > >>> Mariano > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Pharo-project mailing list > > >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Pharo-project mailing list > > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Pharo-project mailing list > > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 17, 2010