May 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Single threaded Pharo IDE?

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Andrei Having do-its block the UI is a feature, especially since you can explicitly fork a new (Smalltalk) process to do the work. What is **NOT** acceptable (and I fear I will discover is "easy" to cause to happen) is for DNS and socket operations that have been forked to block the main thread. Dolphin has a feature called overlapped calls that allow external functions to be executed on a new OS thread specifically to avoid hanging the entire image. There are restrictions and disclaimers even then, and the default behavior is to block the UI. Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Andrei Stebakov Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 5:31 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Cc: Adrian Lienhard Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Single threaded Pharo IDE? 2010/5/10 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com<mailto:marianopeck@gmail.com>> 2010/5/10 Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com<mailto:lispercat@gmail.com>> I just started to use Pharo 1.0. So please bear with me since I may not fully understand the full concept of the IDE. Sometimes the whole IDE freezes indefinitely. Welcome ! we hope you enjoy ;) So questions: 1) Looks like evaluating anything from the Workspace freezes the whole UI for the time of execution. Is it a bug or a feature? More or less. Pharo has a green thread implementation. I will tell you what I understand. Green threads means, there is only ONE OS thread, and then, internally (in Smalltalk) there exists their own threads, scheduler, priorities, etc. The UI is just a process that is running, with a certain priority. Go to the world menu, then "Tools" -> "Process Browser". There you will see all the current processes with their priorities. You can notice the UI process. But you must agree that it still looks fishy when your whole UI blocks when you execute something lengthy (like new package install)... Well, if the majority of Pharo users think that it's OK who am I to argue? ;) So...whatever you do here, it will be done inside that process. If you do normal things, then yes, I guess the UI freezes. However, you way want to launch another thread to do what you want and with a lower priority than the UI. Do this test: open a workspace and a transcript. In the workspace, evaluate: [ 1000 timesRepeat: [Transcript show: 'mariano'; cr] ] forkAt: Processor userBackgroundPriority there, you will see that you are able to use the ide, while the block of writing to Transcript is working "at the same time". Here the most important message is forkAt: . fork just fork the block with the standard priority ("Processor activePriority"). If you want to specify the priority, you have to use forkAt: Yes, the [ HTTPSocket httpGet: 'http://www.pharo-project.org/home'] forkAt: Processor userBackgroundPriority doesn't block the UI anymore... If it's the way to go, shouldn't we have a "special non-blocking" Workspace which does exactly this (or have an option to run your Workspace command with a background priority)? 2) Sometimes executing something freezes the UI indefinitely. Is there a way to cancel the operation (other than restarting the image)? Strangely in my case the IDE froze on evaluating HTTPSocket httpGet: 'http://www.pharo-project.org/home' Yes, Sockets are an example where sometimes they block the whole image. Are you behind a proxy ? do you have a timeout error after a while ? I have just tested and it also freezes for me in Mac OS. I have no idea. Maybe other can help. If I execute HTTPSocket httpGet: 'http://www.pharo-project.org/home'. in a Workspace having a Transcript window open, I got a never-ending messages in the Transcript window like: "redirecting to http://www.cmsbox.com/errors/hostnotfound.html". Yes, I am behind a firewall, but other urls work with the same command. But yes, usually (sometimes it doesn't work) there is a combination of keys that send a system interruption. Check this links: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/899 http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1542 Great! Alt-. works. BTW Adrian, I think this deserves a FAQ entry as it has been asked several times. Cheers Mariano Thank you, Andrei _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

May 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Single threaded Pharo IDE?

by Stefan Marr

On 11 May 2010, at 00:51, Andrei Stebakov wrote: > [ ... do something... ] fork > It works too. I guess the only way to terminate the forked process is though the Process Browser (which has some unique name for that block like "[] in Semaphore>>critical" in this case). Fork should return the process object, if I remember correctly. > Is there a way to refresh the Process Browser window so that it shows the new processes (it only refreshes for me if I close and open it)? In the context menu should be an option something like CMD+u. But that seems to be a bit buggy, I had trouble when I was experimenting with a lot of processes. Best regards Stefan -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

May 10, 2010

[Pharo-project] Standard input in Pharo?

by Andrei Stebakov

I've been just going through "Computer Programming with GNU Smalltalk" book using Pharo 1.0 as an actual ST implementation. The book mentions "stdin nextLine" as a way to get an input from a user via the standard input. Is there a similar class/method in Pharo?

May 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Single threaded Pharo IDE?

by Andrei Stebakov

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2010/5/11 Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > > I just started to use Pharo 1.0. So please bear with me since I may not > > fully understand the full concept of the IDE. Sometimes the whole IDE > > freezes indefinitely. So questions: > > 1) Looks like evaluating anything from the Workspace freezes the whole UI > > for the time of execution. Is it a bug or a feature? > > all doits evaluated in UI process. So, this is a feature. > And that's why UI process freezing, if you evaluating something lengthly. > If you want to run your snippet of code in background, just wrap it with > fork: > > [ ... do something... ] fork > It works too. I guess the only way to terminate the forked process is though the Process Browser (which has some unique name for that block like "[] in Semaphore>>critical" in this case). Is there a way to refresh the Process Browser window so that it shows the new processes (it only refreshes for me if I close and open it)? > > > 2) Sometimes executing something freezes the UI indefinitely. Is there a > way > > to cancel the operation (other than restarting the image)? > > Strangely in my case the IDE froze on evaluating HTTPSocket httpGet: > > 'http://www.pharo-project.org/home' > > > you can interrupt a currently running process by pressing Alt-. > > > Thank you, > > Andrei > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Single threaded Pharo IDE?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

2010/5/11 Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com> > > > 2010/5/10 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > > >> >> 2010/5/10 Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com> >> >> >>> >>> I just started to use Pharo 1.0. So please bear with me since I may not >>> fully understand the full concept of the IDE. Sometimes the whole IDE >>> freezes indefinitely. >> >> >> Welcome ! we hope you enjoy ;) >> >> >>> So questions: >>> 1) Looks like evaluating anything from the Workspace freezes the whole UI >>> for the time of execution. Is it a bug or a feature? >>> >> >> More or less. Pharo has a green thread implementation. I will tell you >> what I understand. Green threads means, there is only ONE OS thread, and >> then, internally (in Smalltalk) there exists their own threads, scheduler, >> priorities, etc. The UI is just a process that is running, with a certain >> priority. Go to the world menu, then "Tools" -> "Process Browser". There you >> will see all the current processes with their priorities. You can notice the >> UI process. >> >> But you must agree that it still looks fishy when your whole UI blocks > when you execute something lengthy (like new package install)... > Well, if the majority of Pharo users think that it's OK who am I to argue? > ;) > > I am not saying I like it. I was just trying to explain you just what I know. I would like also not to block the UI until certain situations, like installing packages. Maybe this can be done with Metacello ? I don't know the side effects this may have (modifying collections or things like that while the other one is accessing it). I mean, I don't know if the necessary semaphore structure is done. > > So...whatever you do here, it will be done inside that process. If you do >> normal things, then yes, I guess the UI freezes. However, you way want to >> launch another thread to do what you want and with a lower priority than the >> UI. >> >> Do this test: open a workspace and a transcript. In the workspace, >> evaluate: >> >> [ 1000 timesRepeat: [Transcript show: 'mariano'; cr] ] forkAt: Processor >> userBackgroundPriority >> >> there, you will see that you are able to use the ide, while the block of >> writing to Transcript is working "at the same time". >> >> Here the most important message is forkAt: . fork just fork the block >> with the standard priority ("Processor activePriority"). If you want to >> specify the priority, you have to use forkAt: >> > Yes, the [ HTTPSocket httpGet: 'http://www.pharo-project.org/home'] > forkAt: Processor userBackgroundPriority doesn't block the UI anymore... > If it's the way to go, shouldn't we have a "special non-blocking" Workspace > which does exactly this (or have an option to run your Workspace command > with a background priority)? > Yes! I like very much the idea. We should think how to implement it (if possible). Because when you evaluate code, you just evaluate code, I don't know if you can know "from where" you evaluated. In addition, it would be interesting to see the side effects. But I admit I like the idea. > > >> >> >> >>> 2) Sometimes executing something freezes the UI indefinitely. Is there a >>> way to cancel the operation (other than restarting the image)? >>> Strangely in my case the IDE froze on evaluating HTTPSocket httpGet: ' >>> http://www.pharo-project.org/home' >>> >>> >> Yes, Sockets are an example where sometimes they block the whole image. >> Are you behind a proxy ? do you have a timeout error after a while ? >> I have just tested and it also freezes for me in Mac OS. I have no idea. >> Maybe other can help. >> > > If I execute HTTPSocket httpGet: 'http://www.pharo-project.org/home'. in a > Workspace having a Transcript window open, I got a never-ending messages in > the Transcript window like: > "redirecting to http://www.cmsbox.com/errors/hostnotfound.html". > mmmmm I cc'ed Adrian that he may help you. Yes, I am behind a firewall, but other urls work with the same command. > > Ok... > > >> >> But yes, usually (sometimes it doesn't work) there is a combination of >> keys that send a system interruption. Check this links: >> >> http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/899 >> http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1542 >> >> Great! Alt-. works. > excellent. Cheers Mariano > BTW Adrian, I think this deserves a FAQ entry as it has been asked several >> times. >> >> Cheers >> >> Mariano >> >> >>> Thank you, >>> Andrei >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Single threaded Pharo IDE?

by Andrei Stebakov

2010/5/10 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > > > 2010/5/10 Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com> > > >> >> I just started to use Pharo 1.0. So please bear with me since I may not >> fully understand the full concept of the IDE. Sometimes the whole IDE >> freezes indefinitely. > > > Welcome ! we hope you enjoy ;) > > >> So questions: >> 1) Looks like evaluating anything from the Workspace freezes the whole UI >> for the time of execution. Is it a bug or a feature? >> > > More or less. Pharo has a green thread implementation. I will tell you what > I understand. Green threads means, there is only ONE OS thread, and then, > internally (in Smalltalk) there exists their own threads, scheduler, > priorities, etc. The UI is just a process that is running, with a certain > priority. Go to the world menu, then "Tools" -> "Process Browser". There you > will see all the current processes with their priorities. You can notice the > UI process. > > But you must agree that it still looks fishy when your whole UI blocks when you execute something lengthy (like new package install)... Well, if the majority of Pharo users think that it's OK who am I to argue? ;) So...whatever you do here, it will be done inside that process. If you do > normal things, then yes, I guess the UI freezes. However, you way want to > launch another thread to do what you want and with a lower priority than the > UI. > > Do this test: open a workspace and a transcript. In the workspace, > evaluate: > > [ 1000 timesRepeat: [Transcript show: 'mariano'; cr] ] forkAt: Processor > userBackgroundPriority > > there, you will see that you are able to use the ide, while the block of > writing to Transcript is working "at the same time". > > Here the most important message is forkAt: . fork just fork the block > with the standard priority ("Processor activePriority"). If you want to > specify the priority, you have to use forkAt: > Yes, the [ HTTPSocket httpGet: 'http://www.pharo-project.org/home'] forkAt: Processor userBackgroundPriority doesn't block the UI anymore... If it's the way to go, shouldn't we have a "special non-blocking" Workspace which does exactly this (or have an option to run your Workspace command with a background priority)? > > > >> 2) Sometimes executing something freezes the UI indefinitely. Is there a >> way to cancel the operation (other than restarting the image)? >> Strangely in my case the IDE froze on evaluating HTTPSocket httpGet: ' >> http://www.pharo-project.org/home' >> >> > Yes, Sockets are an example where sometimes they block the whole image. Are > you behind a proxy ? do you have a timeout error after a while ? > I have just tested and it also freezes for me in Mac OS. I have no idea. > Maybe other can help. > If I execute HTTPSocket httpGet: 'http://www.pharo-project.org/home'. in a Workspace having a Transcript window open, I got a never-ending messages in the Transcript window like: "redirecting to http://www.cmsbox.com/errors/hostnotfound.html". Yes, I am behind a firewall, but other urls work with the same command. > > But yes, usually (sometimes it doesn't work) there is a combination of keys > that send a system interruption. Check this links: > > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/899 > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1542 > > Great! Alt-. works. > BTW Adrian, I think this deserves a FAQ entry as it has been asked several > times. > > Cheers > > Mariano > > >> Thank you, >> Andrei >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 10, 2010

[Pharo-project] "Tools" -> "more" removed from PharoCode 1.1...intentionally ? (alain ?)

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi folks. In Pharo 1.0 we use to have under "Tools" -> "More" some tools like: Language Editor Language Editor For Monticello Browser Monticello Configurations Preference Browser Recent Submissions Search Browser Services Browser Test Runner However, in Pharo 1.1 there is not even a "more" menu item. I saw the following issues: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1937 http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1945 but I am not sure if I understand. Alain said something has to be done in ImageForDevelopers... Thanks Maruano

May 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Single threaded Pharo IDE?

by Igor Stasenko

2010/5/11 Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com>: > > > I just started to use Pharo 1.0. So please bear with me since I may not > fully understand the full concept of the IDE. Sometimes the whole IDE > freezes indefinitely. So questions: > 1) Looks like evaluating anything from the Workspace freezes the whole UI > for the time of execution. Is it a bug or a feature? all doits evaluated in UI process. So, this is a feature. And that's why UI process freezing, if you evaluating something lengthly. If you want to run your snippet of code in background, just wrap it with fork: [ ... do something... ] fork > 2) Sometimes executing something freezes the UI indefinitely. Is there a way > to cancel the operation (other than restarting the image)? > Strangely in my case the IDE froze on evaluating HTTPSocket httpGet: > 'http://www.pharo-project.org/home' > you can interrupt a currently running process by pressing Alt-. > Thank you, > Andrei > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

May 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Single threaded Pharo IDE?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

2010/5/10 Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com> > > > I just started to use Pharo 1.0. So please bear with me since I may not > fully understand the full concept of the IDE. Sometimes the whole IDE > freezes indefinitely. Welcome ! we hope you enjoy ;) > So questions: > 1) Looks like evaluating anything from the Workspace freezes the whole UI > for the time of execution. Is it a bug or a feature? > More or less. Pharo has a green thread implementation. I will tell you what I understand. Green threads means, there is only ONE OS thread, and then, internally (in Smalltalk) there exists their own threads, scheduler, priorities, etc. The UI is just a process that is running, with a certain priority. Go to the world menu, then "Tools" -> "Process Browser". There you will see all the current processes with their priorities. You can notice the UI process. So...whatever you do here, it will be done inside that process. If you do normal things, then yes, I guess the UI freezes. However, you way want to launch another thread to do what you want and with a lower priority than the UI. Do this test: open a workspace and a transcript. In the workspace, evaluate: [ 1000 timesRepeat: [Transcript show: 'mariano'; cr] ] forkAt: Processor userBackgroundPriority there, you will see that you are able to use the ide, while the block of writing to Transcript is working "at the same time". Here the most important message is forkAt: . fork just fork the block with the standard priority ("Processor activePriority"). If you want to specify the priority, you have to use forkAt: > 2) Sometimes executing something freezes the UI indefinitely. Is there a > way to cancel the operation (other than restarting the image)? > Strangely in my case the IDE froze on evaluating HTTPSocket httpGet: ' > http://www.pharo-project.org/home' > > Yes, Sockets are an example where sometimes they block the whole image. Are you behind a proxy ? do you have a timeout error after a while ? I have just tested and it also freezes for me in Mac OS. I have no idea. Maybe other can help. But yes, usually (sometimes it doesn't work) there is a combination of keys that send a system interruption. Check this links: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/899 http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1542 BTW Adrian, I think this deserves a FAQ entry as it has been asked several times. Cheers Mariano > Thank you, > Andrei > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Newbie: How to load and use HTTP parser

by Andrei Stebakov

When I try to execute ( HtmlValidator onUrl: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharo' asUrl ) dom. I get an error: ByteString(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #url HtmlValidator>>document HtmlValidator>>content HtmlValidator>>parse HtmlValidator>>dom UndefinedObject>>DoIt Compiler>>evaluate:in:to:notifying:ifFail:logged: [] in TextMorphForShoutEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>evaluateSelection BlockClosure>>on:do: TextMorphForShoutEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>evaluateSelection TextMorphForShoutEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>doIt [] in TextMorphForShoutEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>doIt: TextMorphForShoutEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>terminateAndInitializeAround: TextMorphForShoutEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>doIt: TextMorphForShoutEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>dispatchOnKeyEvent:with: TextMorphForShoutEditor(TextMorphEditor)>>dispatchOnKeyEvent:with: TextMorphForShoutEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>keystroke: TextMorphForShoutEditor(TextMorphEditor)>>keystroke: [] in [] in TextMorphForShout(TextMorph)>>keyStroke: TextMorphForShout(TextMorph)>>handleInteraction: The failing place is: document "Answer the value of document" document isNil ifTrue: [ url isNil ifTrue: [nil] ifFalse: [ document := self loader documentForUrl: self url. loader url: document url. ] ]. ^document Looks like "document url" trips on url. I am new to ST, how can I find what's missing? Thank you, Andrew On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:12 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/beginners/2010-April/006986.html > > 2010/5/7 Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com>: > > Hi > > > > Sent this message to the Pharo-users group, but no response for a couple > of > > days, so trying it here ;) > > > > I have a simple task of parsing some html content in Pharo (loading an > html > > page using HTTPSocket and retrieving useful info from it). > > Having browsed for an html parser in my current one-click Pharo 1.0 > image, I > > couldn't find one. > > How do I find/download a (the) HTML parser? > > > > What's the general routine of discovering and installing packages in > Pharo? > > I believe in Squeak there was a menu to explore and download packages, I > > couldn't find it in Pharo though. > > > > > > Thank you, > > Andrei > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

May 10, 2010