April 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Zoomable UI

by Tudor Girba

I would be a very happy user for something line that :) Doru On 19 Apr 2010, at 19:32, Igor Stasenko wrote: > This is where, i think we should be heading: > > http://ahead.com > > And this is why i think, a graphics frameworks should be vector based, > not a pixel based one. > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- www.tudorgirba.com "Yesterday is a fact. Tomorrow is a possibility. Today is a challenge."

April 19, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo 1.0 released!

by Igor Stasenko

On 19 April 2010 20:29, Michael Haupt <mhaupt(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Igor, > > On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Computer always 'knows' what next operation it going to perform, and >> don't need to use any precedence. > > ... enter quantum computers. :-P > let me rephrase that: by building any machine, we using a certain set of principles, on which it will function. So then, we could _predict_ how it will behave, if we provide a set of instructions. That's why i put 'knows'. Computers, obviously don't know anything. Knowledge comes from the fact, on which principles you built a machine, so you can predict what will happen if you instruct it to do one or another operation. >> If we ever will meet aliens, then to start communicating we, no doubt, >> should use an universal rules & semantics, which can be interpreted >> without any chances to be ambiguous. And precedence, obviously is not >> a univesal :) > > Hear, hear! > > Best, > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

April 19, 2010

[Pharo-project] Error when 'Loading 11313-Pha-CleaningCompilerTests...'

by Sean P. DeNigris

http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2327 : Pharo image: core Pharo core version: PharoCore1.1ALPHA #11312 Virtual machine used: Squeak 4.2.4beta1U (Mac) Class browser used if applicable: Browser Steps to reproduce: 1. Click System->Software Update 'Error: can''t find EOCD position' -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Error-when-Loading-11313-Pha-CleaningCompilerTests-tp2… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 19, 2010

[Pharo-project] Zoomable UI

by Igor Stasenko

This is where, i think we should be heading: http://ahead.com And this is why i think, a graphics frameworks should be vector based, not a pixel based one. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

April 19, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo 1.0 released!

by Michael Haupt

Hi Igor, On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Computer always 'knows' what next operation it going to perform, and > don't need to use any precedence. ... enter quantum computers. :-P > If we ever will meet aliens, then to start communicating we, no doubt, > should use an universal rules & semantics, which can be interpreted > without any chances to be ambiguous. And precedence, obviously is not > a univesal :) Hear, hear! Best, Michael

April 19, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo 1.0 released!

by Igor Stasenko

On 19 April 2010 19:40, Michael Haupt <mhaupt(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I am serious. If you can't learn the simplest syntax rules, you can't >> learn anything else. > > but Syntax, dearest Igor, is key! And Note The Capital "S"! > > You see, Lisp clearly sucks because it has too many brackets. Python > and Haskell are most unfavourable because they have whitespace with > semantics. Pascal, Modula-2, and Ada are way too verbose. Forth > organises programs in pages - now *that* is bureaucratic and > old-fashioned, aye? Smalltalk obviously doesn't know how to compute > with natural numbers properly. Smalltalk, Self, and Io share the > indignity of not even having proper keywords. Java, Scala, C, and C++ > ... don't even get me started, man: curly braces are sooooo 80s. > Erlang does not end sentences with an exclamation mark, it puts it in > their midst - how messy, bah. In Prolog, you have to write your own > rules, which makes it seem as if the language didn't have any: yuck! > > If you consider all these points wisely, you will inevitably come to > the conclusion that the only language with a proper, clear, civilised, > and tidy syntax out there is brainfuck. Some argue it's unacceptable > due to its name, but that is not a syntactical argument and hence > invalid. I win. > I agree. all languages having bright and dark sides. And people free to choose what they like (or not). I wonder, how a computer languages would look like for europeans, if they are first were invented by Chinese or Japanes cultures. ( you know, they would use glyphs in it ;). Still, there are an univestal laws and concepts which come from mathematics, and will not change depending on cultural/educational nuances: computers are finite state machines with strictly defined order of operations. Computer always 'knows' what next operation it going to perform, and don't need to use any precedence. If we ever will meet aliens, then to start communicating we, no doubt, should use an universal rules & semantics, which can be interpreted without any chances to be ambiguous. And precedence, obviously is not a univesal :) > Best, > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

April 19, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo 1.0 released!

by Michael Roberts

On Monday, April 19, 2010, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> wrote: > On Apr 19, 2010, at 09:10 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> On Apr 19, 2010, at 1:56 AM, Stephen Taylor wrote: >> >>> Henrik Johansen wrote: >>> >>>> Gotta love reddit... >>> [...] >>>> - "I don't know what Smalltalk is, and the site doesn't tell me, not even the about page!" >>> >>> That one I think is legitimate - and not just for Pharo but for almost every Open Source project out there. I think every project's home page should keep first time in visitors in mind. (My very least favourite thing for the first page of a site is to see the project commit log - talk about unwelcoming!). >> >> Good remark. >> Thanks. >> Does anybody have some text we could reuse? > > I think that anybody that is enough interested will be able to type "Smalltalk" into Google. Next, people are going to ask what a programming language is, and we have to explain that too ;) > > Anyway, couldn't we just link the first occurrence of "Smalltalk" to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk? I already did that ;-) Cheers mike >>> And to say something positive - Pharo 1.0 looks great - solid and serious and workable. A couple of my co-workers have called my bluff and asked for a Smalltalk tutorial, and I'll be happy to show them Pharo. > > Thanks :) > > Cheers, > Adrian > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 19, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo 1.0 released!

by Michael Haupt

Hi, On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I am serious. If you can't learn the simplest syntax rules, you can't > learn anything else. but Syntax, dearest Igor, is key! And Note The Capital "S"! You see, Lisp clearly sucks because it has too many brackets. Python and Haskell are most unfavourable because they have whitespace with semantics. Pascal, Modula-2, and Ada are way too verbose. Forth organises programs in pages - now *that* is bureaucratic and old-fashioned, aye? Smalltalk obviously doesn't know how to compute with natural numbers properly. Smalltalk, Self, and Io share the indignity of not even having proper keywords. Java, Scala, C, and C++ ... don't even get me started, man: curly braces are sooooo 80s. Erlang does not end sentences with an exclamation mark, it puts it in their midst - how messy, bah. In Prolog, you have to write your own rules, which makes it seem as if the language didn't have any: yuck! If you consider all these points wisely, you will inevitably come to the conclusion that the only language with a proper, clear, civilised, and tidy syntax out there is brainfuck. Some argue it's unacceptable due to its name, but that is not a syntactical argument and hence invalid. I win. Best, Michael

April 19, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo 1.0 released!

by Igor Stasenko

On 19 April 2010 18:10, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Sig, > > Never argue with an idiot - others might not be able to tell the difference. Â I beg you to raise the level of your arguments beyond name calling. Â Whether you see it that way or not, you mention "childhood" and it's over. > I am not using reddit. And indeed, a flame wars it a least interesting thing i wanna be part of. The point is, that smalltalk gives a clear answer (as to me), why it has such syntax: uniformity, simplicity and consistency. While in many other languages such answer could be depicted as: because others do. So, a central question in such discussions should be _why_ some language having such rules, and those who don't bother asking it, but instead, from a very start saying that its awfully bad, not worth my attention :) > Bill > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:27 AM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo 1.0 released! > > On 19 April 2010 16:53, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >> Sig, >> >> You are missing the point: I *agree* that supporting precedence rules would very likely be bad and I would probably argue against any such change. Â Where you are doing damage to us all is by ridiculing someone who is raising a valid concern rather than debating that person with reasoned arguments. >> > > I am serious. If you can't learn the simplest syntax rules, you can't learn anything else. > And i don't care about what such people thinking, because they will never try to think different. > They are found that moving in direction where crowd moves, is a best way. Its not interesting to them, if there are other directions, and some even doesn't interesting in what direction they are currently moving. They are told to move in that way and they moving. > > Fine. Let this mindless crowd go its way. I don't feel a loss. > >> Bill >> >> > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

April 19, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo 1.0 released!

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Sig, Never argue with an idiot - others might not be able to tell the difference. I beg you to raise the level of your arguments beyond name calling. Whether you see it that way or not, you mention "childhood" and it's over. Bill -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Igor Stasenko Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:27 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo 1.0 released! On 19 April 2010 16:53, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Sig, > > You are missing the point: I *agree* that supporting precedence rules would very likely be bad and I would probably argue against any such change. Â Where you are doing damage to us all is by ridiculing someone who is raising a valid concern rather than debating that person with reasoned arguments. > I am serious. If you can't learn the simplest syntax rules, you can't learn anything else. And i don't care about what such people thinking, because they will never try to think different. They are found that moving in direction where crowd moves, is a best way. Its not interesting to them, if there are other directions, and some even doesn't interesting in what direction they are currently moving. They are told to move in that way and they moving. Fine. Let this mindless crowd go its way. I don't feel a loss. > Bill > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 19, 2010