April 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] FFI in 1.1

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

<blatant warning> Due the way I envisage using Pharo I have stakes in these matterÂ¹. Please read with a grain of salt. </blatant warning> I think the 'interpretation' of Stef's question is being different from person to person. The issue Wilhelm brings it seems to me more of "what priority we give to have FFI working". Putting it as part of core IMHO has more chances of having it prioritized as we think in the release of 1.1 that if we leave it as a package, because it may be still broken and 1.1 may be called ready for shipping. I also do agree that FFI is infrastructure and as such has to be seen as core, and since the ability to have Pharo more useful depends on the possibility to use a lot of code we are not able (in some case even not willing to) to rewrite in Pharo Smalltalk, I vote to have it as default and strive to have it working as soon as possible. my 0.01999... -- Cesar Rabak [1] If you're curious, I'm interested in seeing R http://www.r-project.org/ working with Pharo (at least as Martin Rubi's smallRApi for Dolphin) Em 20/04/2010 10:15, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com > escreveu: 2010/4/20 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> Mariano, FFI, use of OS threads and callbacks are *very* basic needs that we should support.Â IMHO, we should be focused on making them work, not on classifying what is internal or external. But is has nothing to do with what Stef asked: "Do we add FFI by default in 1.1?" In my opinion, it shouldn't be by default. However, this doesn't mean that we don't support FFI. And I am not saying to focus in internal or external. I just answer Stef question with my opinion. Cheers Mariano Bill From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Mariano Martinez Peck Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:49 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI in 1.1 On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 9:31 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: Hi all Do we add FFI by default in 1.1? Noooooooooo!!! I wouldn't include neither FFI or Alien FFI in neither PharoCore or PharoDev image. FFI is an EXTERNAL package, NOT core, neither a dev tool. That's only my opinion. Cheers Mariano This was the plan so. Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] a monthly friday afternoon hacking day

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

I'm in if we can figure out a way of gathering on-line in any way appropriate for this purpose. -- Cesar Rabak Em 20/04/2010 07:46, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > escreveu: Hi I would really like that one afternoon a month we gather and we program pharo stuff. We could start Friday 30. Let me know if you are ok. The idea is to have fun together. Stef _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

by John M McIntosh

Obviously I'm collecting media links on the issue http://www.mobilewikiserver.com/Scratch.html -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

April 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Wish List for Tests

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

as indicated 1.1 Stef On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:18 PM, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > Is this for 1.0 or 1.1? > > -- > Cesar Rabak > > Em 20/04/2010 03:53, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > escreveu: > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2331 > > > ;) > On Apr 20, 2010, at 5:50 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>> 2. When deleting all test cases using >>>> >>>> TestCase allSubclasses do: [:each | each removeFromSystem ] >>>> >> >> >> would be great to move all this stuff >> >> "unload all test packages" >> #(Tests CollectionsTests CompilerTests FreeTypeTests GraphicsTests KernelTests MorphicTests MultilingualTests NetworkTests ToolsTest 'Gofer-Tests') >> do: [ :each | (MCPackage named: each) unload ]. >> >> "unload SUnit" >> Smalltalk at: #TestCase ifPresent: [ :class | >> SystemChangeNotifier uniqueInstance noMoreNotificationsFor: class ]. >> #(SUnitGUI SUnit) do: [ :each | (MCPackage named: each) unload ]. >> AppRegistry removeObsolete. >> TheWorldMenu removeObsolete. >> >> >> to a method called unloadAllTestsAndSUnit >> >> so that it can be reused and not only in cleanUpForProduction >> >> cheers >> >> mariano >> >>>> I have also Monticello packages changed that are not in test >>>> packages. >>>> >>>> Hope we find the time to clearly separate the tests from >>>> the "core" package to clean unload the tests and continue >>>> the modularization efforts. >> >> We have that already. I modularized the tests in PharoCore to make them cleanly unloadable. Do the following for unloading all tests from PharoCore (in ScriptLoader new>>cleanUpForProduction): >> >> #(Tests CollectionsTests CompilerTests FreeTypeTests GraphicsTests KernelTests MorphicTests MultilingualTests NetworkTests ToolsTest 'Gofer-Tests') do: [ :each | (MCPackage named: each) unload ]. >> >> If you run this in a Pharo image, it also does not leave any dirty packages, but obviously it does not remove the tests from external packages. To achieve this, the maintainers of external packages would need to separate the tests from the rest of their code. I don't think this is very important, though, because unloading tests is most important in PharoCore (that is, to strip down an image, you probably don't start from Pharo but PharoCore anyway). >> >> Cheers, >> Adrian >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

by John M McIntosh

This morning there was a huge rumbling of email in my in-box. The result accumulated in Wired's nicely written article which you can find at http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/apple-scratch-app At this time I have no further information to offer and I'm awaiting further communication from Apple. Alan Kay did contribute to the article, I did not, other than various quotes Wired lifted from my letter in the Apple Developer Forums. -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

April 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Wish List for Tests

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Is this for 1.0 or 1.1? -- Cesar Rabak Em 20/04/2010 03:53, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > escreveu: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2331 ;) On Apr 20, 2010, at 5:50 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > >> 2. When deleting all test cases using > >> > >> TestCase allSubclasses do: [:each | each removeFromSystem ] > >> > > > would be great to move all this stuff > > "unload all test packages" > #(Tests CollectionsTests CompilerTests FreeTypeTests GraphicsTests KernelTests MorphicTests MultilingualTests NetworkTests ToolsTest 'Gofer-Tests') > do: [ :each | (MCPackage named: each) unload ]. > > "unload SUnit" > Smalltalk at: #TestCase ifPresent: [ :class | > SystemChangeNotifier uniqueInstance noMoreNotificationsFor: class ]. > #(SUnitGUI SUnit) do: [ :each | (MCPackage named: each) unload ]. > AppRegistry removeObsolete. > TheWorldMenu removeObsolete. > > > to a method called unloadAllTestsAndSUnit > > so that it can be reused and not only in cleanUpForProduction > > cheers > > mariano > > >> I have also Monticello packages changed that are not in test > >> packages. > >> > >> Hope we find the time to clearly separate the tests from > >> the "core" package to clean unload the tests and continue > >> the modularization efforts. > > We have that already. I modularized the tests in PharoCore to make them cleanly unloadable. Do the following for unloading all tests from PharoCore (in ScriptLoader new>>cleanUpForProduction): > > #(Tests CollectionsTests CompilerTests FreeTypeTests GraphicsTests KernelTests MorphicTests MultilingualTests NetworkTests ToolsTest 'Gofer-Tests') do: [ :each | (MCPackage named: each) unload ]. > > If you run this in a Pharo image, it also does not leave any dirty packages, but obviously it does not remove the tests from external packages. To achieve this, the maintainers of external packages would need to separate the tests from the rest of their code. I don't think this is very important, though, because unloading tests is most important in PharoCore (that is, to strip down an image, you probably don't start from Pharo but PharoCore anyway). > > Cheers, > Adrian > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo 1.0 released! -- OFF Topic (philosophical ramblings)

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Em 19/04/2010 16:13, Igor Stasenko < siguctua(a)gmail.com > escreveu: > On 19 April 2010 22:04, wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Em 19/04/2010 14:53, Igor Stasenko < siguctua(a)gmail.com > > > escreveu: > > > >> On 19 April 2010 20:29, Michael Haupt wrote: > >> > Hi Igor, On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> >> Computer always 'knows' what next operation it going to > >> >> perform, and don't need to use any precedence. > >> > ... enter quantum computers. :-P let me rephrase that: by > >> > building any machine, we using a certain > >> set of principles, on which it will function. So then, we could > >> _predict_ how it will behave, if we provide a set of > >> instructions. > > NO. As historical counter examples there are the Neural net based > > computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptrons > And where is a contradiction? A first two paragraphs on that page > describing a principles on which it built. And then, you saying > that you can't predict how it behaves after you built it using these > principles? Igor your post makes me believe you read only the paragraphs you quoted (and are rightfully entitled to) and aren't willing to drill down into perceptrons or homeostats. So to avoid a lengthy detour from the essential argument, let's think of a simple device, say a non loaded (a.k.a. 'honest') die or a roulette built to Monte Carlo standards: You build any of them according to very well known principles, can you predict the outcomes except for the platitude that the dice can come from one to six each trow or similar for the roulette? > > > which was built as a machine, or the homeostat > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeostat (ditto). > > my 0.019999... I tried to use computing devices to be in the realm...

April 20, 2010

[Pharo-project] Fwd: [Vm-dev] Running Alien on Windows

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Begin forwarded message: > From: pharo-project-owner(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Date: April 20, 2010 7:56:58 PM GMT+02:00 > To: stephane.ducasse(a)gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Vm-dev] Running Alien on Windows > > You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has > been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are > being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at > pharo-project-owner(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr. > > > From: stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)gmail.com> > Date: April 20, 2010 7:56:51 PM GMT+02:00 > To: Squeak Virtual Machine Development Discussion <vm-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Cc: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr, bouraqadi(a)gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Vm-dev] Running Alien on Windows > > > Thanks torsten for the summary > >>> Would not work out of the box with the VM since it requires >> VM changes. Marco ported them from Newspeak >> and made them available [1]. Tests went green and >> he is sucessfully using Alien on Windows. But it is not yet >> in the official Squeak VM (which is 4.0.2.). >> >> There is also an issue for pharo [2] and an issue for > > I read [2] but I could not get what was needed from our side > >> VM developers [3] to follow progress. >> >> So the code is there and is ready for integration. >> Andreas asked for the license [4], Marco answered >> that code was from Newspeak [5]. >> >> After that we got a good response from John McIntosh >> on the license issue [6] which should be OK now. >> (Dont know, I'm not a lawyer) >> >> After I asked Andreas again he answered that it is not >> highest priority for him which I understood since >> Squeak 4.1 was in preparation. See last response >> regarding this [7] >> >> Dont know what should be the next steps to get Alien >> into the Win32-VM code base. Maybe Andreas could tell >> you more. >> >> As a workaround you could use the source provided >> by Marco to build your own unofficial VM - however >> you would have to reintegrate anytime Andreas makes >> a new release... > > May be I'm in a good mood but I think that andreas will do it when he got time. > I know what is losing time on a lot of tiny boring stuff that must be done. >> >> Bye >> T. >> >> [1] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-March/003983.html >> [2] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1360 >> [3] http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7475 >> [4] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-March/004034.html >> [5] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-March/004037.html >> [6] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-March/004054.html >> [7] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010- >> March/004103.html >> >> -- >> GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! >> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 > > > >

April 20, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] FEATURE: User chooses preferred location for MC directory repositories

by Chris Muller

Whether the user is required to specify a "default directory" or a directory to a repository, it's the same task isn't it? Once you add it once to MC, it can be "added" to any other package. So this defaultDirectory would seem to be a feature not worth its weight.. On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2329 > > Pharo image: Pharo 1.0 > > In Monticello Browser, when I click "+Repository" and select "directory," > I'd love to be taken right to the directory where I keep my local > repositories, instead of having to click to the same place over and over. > > I changed the following method: > MCDirectoryRepository class>>morphicConfigure > Â Â Â Â ^ (UIManager default chooseDirectoryFrom: (FileDirectory on: > '/path/to/my/Repositories')) ifNotNil: > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â [:directory | > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â self new directory: directory] > > How should I store the default repository directory? Â Would anyone else find > this helpful? > > Sean DeNigris > -- > View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/FEATURE-User-chooses-preferred-location-for-MC-directo… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 20, 2010

[Pharo-project] Running Alien on Windows

by Torsten Bergmann

Bouraqadi Noury wrote on pharo-dev >We have trouble running alien on Windows. Starting from a clean pharo >1.0 image and the latest VM, Would not work out of the box with the VM since it requires VM changes. Marco ported them from Newspeak and made them available [1]. Tests went green and he is sucessfully using Alien on Windows. But it is not yet in the official Squeak VM (which is 4.0.2.). There is also an issue for pharo [2] and an issue for VM developers [3] to follow progress. So the code is there and is ready for integration. Andreas asked for the license [4], Marco answered that code was from Newspeak [5]. After that we got a good response from John McIntosh on the license issue [6] which should be OK now. (Dont know, I'm not a lawyer) After I asked Andreas again he answered that it is not highest priority for him which I understood since Squeak 4.1 was in preparation. See last response regarding this [7] Dont know what should be the next steps to get Alien into the Win32-VM code base. Maybe Andreas could tell you more. As a workaround you could use the source provided by Marco to build your own unofficial VM - however you would have to reintegrate anytime Andreas makes a new release... Bye T. [1] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-March/003983.html [2] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1360 [3] http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7475 [4] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-March/004034.html [5] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-March/004037.html [6] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010-March/004054.html [7] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/vm-dev/2010- March/004103.html -- GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

April 20, 2010