April 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Hints and clues for a Pharo newb

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

2010/4/21 Lukas Renggli <renggli(a)gmail.com>: >> thisContext is a special object for representing an activation in a >> stack frame in a stack-based VM. > > Actually "thisContext" represents *the current* activation/stack-frame. > > Â Â foo: anObject > Â Â Â Â ^ thisContext at: 1 > > is the same as > > Â Â foo: anObject > Â Â Â Â ^ anObject > Of course, "this" refers to "the current" in common language usage. >> There are two kinds of contexts: >> Method Contexts and Block Contexts. > > Actually in Pharo images there are only instances of MethodContext. > Though you can ask the context if it comes from a block by sending the > message #isExecutingBlock. > Actually in Pharo there is a BlockContext class, which is not instantiated anymore after the introduction of the closure compiler? In other Smalltalks aBlockContext is the resulting context of a block activation during its evaluation and is activated by sending #value,.this fills thisContext with the execution information inside the block. In Squeak (or the old compiler) block contexts were created using #blockCopy:, now I see #closureNumCopied:numArgs:. Does this means BlockContext could be completely removed and replaced with MethodContext semantics? I've removed the BlockContext class and used Pharo a little bit with no problems, maybe some Decompiler issues in the Debugger... Now, test yourself before evaluating :) what should be the result of this expression? [: arg | arg perform: #isExecutingBlock ] value: thisContext Can somebody justify the result? >> Context creation is optimized in the VM in most Smalltalks, so it's >> only really created as an object in the environment (reified) when >> it's specifically needed through "thisContext". > > In Pharo contexts are not reified like that. Stack-frames are actual > objects at all times. However, for speed reasons, their creation and > garbage-collection is optimized by the VM. Stack frames get > automatically recycled if nobody refers to them. > I think is what I said :) >> There are several applications related with computational reflection >> (Reflective Programming, Meta-Programming, MOP, etc) which makes use >> of the current context. > > Also: exception handling, generators, continuations, co-routines, ... > > For another fun use of "thisContext" check this Stack-Overflow question: > > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2500483/is-there-a-way-in-a-message-only… > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] HelpSystem (was Documentation Team)

by Michael Roberts

yes I think that is a nice idea. we would need to see how it fitted in with http://pharo-project.org/documentation as it is currently, and if we load cms-box with all content or something else for dynamically generated stuff like your seaside example (or -> static html). cheers, Mike 2010/4/21 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>: > Yes, Python documentation is really impressive, the best I know. > May be we can go the other way, from HelpSystem to web. I've tried something > like some months > ago.ex:Â http://magaloma.seasidehosting.st/Collections-Streams. > So we can have a documentation page likeÂ http://docs.python.org/py3k/Â with: > - collaborator book > - web edition of Pharo By Example > - HelpSystem books > - API reference generated from comments in classes / methods (with the > possibility to add comments like Â jQuery or PHP online docs.) > All on one page, starting point to look for documentation, at > http://docs.pharo-project.org > Cheers, > Laurent Laffont > > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Michael Roberts <mike(a)mjr104.co.uk> wrote: >> >> Laurent, i think this is a tension that a number of us feel. should we >> put documentation in the colab book, or in the system? For me the two >> are distinct. Â The book, ultimately, should read as a book. That is >> there is a logical flow from start to finish and the content is >> consistent, from start to finish, for a given version of the system. >> Writing a book appears hard - i have never done it - but i have >> attempted to copy-edit material that turned out to be as big as a >> reasonably sized book; i found that near impossible. Â So whilst the >> colab book effort is currently in its infancy, i would expect over >> time it to tend towards being published as a consistent whole. I'm >> sure anyone involved in SBE/PBE could comment on the real work >> required to write such a book. >> >> As for help in the system, as torsten nicely articulated either "Help" >> or "Reference", this should really be dynamic. It should change at the >> unit of which it is changing. so if a new version of a package is >> loaded, perhaps the Reference docs change. using hyperlink references >> you should be able to jump around it in an arbitrary order. Â I don't >> see a book performing this function. really it must flow consistently >> from start to finish and the layout of the book is carefully picked by >> the editors. the only realy hyperlink function is from the TOC, and to >> any particular index or reference. it is quite distinct from arbitrary >> jumping at a system doc level. >> >> at the moment these two forces I consider are at tension, because >> there is not enough reference material in the system as we shipped >> 1.0, and i think the barrier to viewing & editing such reference >> documentation, as a coherent whole, to my satisfaction is harder than >> using Pier. therefore i find it easier to edit pier even if i have >> only contributed a few paragraphs. however longer term this will not >> be the case. Â We must strive for something akin to Python >> documentation. as an engineering artifact, it is simply stunning; you >> can find documentation on anything to do with a given released >> version. i'm sure this applies to other languages too, i just use >> python as an example because I particularly like its style towards doc >> annotation and its completeness. >> >> so personally i don't think we should export the pier content into the >> help system. i see them as quite different, and for both to succeed I >> think they require a different point of view to writing the content. >> >> Torsten - i did not reply to the other thread which stef and I both >> commented on, have not had the time. For me i am a total pragmatist >> when it comes toward reference documentation and i am only really >> interested in reference docs. i fully understand your design and i'm >> fine with that. I just hope that as a community we can author the >> reference side, since that is what i feel is most missing. >> >> cheers, >> Mike >> >> 2010/4/21 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>: >> > Hi, >> > It's cool to have so many interests in documentation. I deeply think >> > it's a >> > key point to success. >> > As an hobbyist contributor to Pharo documentation :) I wonder whether I >> > should write doc in HelpSystem (which indeed is very cool !) or in the >> > collaborator active book (which is very attractive for me). >> > So a way to get the best of both world may be to generate an HelpSystem >> > book >> > from the collaborator book. Every day, if there has been changes in the >> > collaborative book, it can be "packaged" automatically as an HelpSystem >> > book >> > / SystemHelp , put on squeaksource, having ConfigurationOfHelpSystem >> > project >> > lastVersion pointing to the last package. >> > Sounds good ? >> > Cheers, >> > Laurent Laffont >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> To clearify a few things from my side on the discussion >> >> on squeak-dev: >> >> >> >> Â 1. HelpSystem is working, if ASCII is OK for now we can use >> >> Â Â it Pharo/Squeak - otherwise I would see it as an early preview. >> >> Â Â I have clear goals how it should look like in the >> >> Â Â next iterations. For this more patience is necessary. >> >> >> >> Â 2. HelpSystem is independent from where and how the actual >> >> Â Â information is stored (I think I demonstrated this with >> >> Â Â the IRC example, the books and the API help). >> >> >> >> Â 3. I hope to keep HelpSystem in sync for major Squeak distributions >> >> Â Â (Squeak, Pharo, Cuis, ...) >> >> >> >> Â Â The last additions from Hannes already broke the code >> >> Â Â in Pharo. Seems to be a Pharo issue this time >> >> Â Â http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2342 >> >> >> >> Â Â But please dont commit when it is only working in >> >> Â Â Squeak since my development environment is Pharo. >> >> >> >> Â 4. Yes, the content is currently ASCII but the design is prepared >> >> Â Â to add other types in future releases. >> >> >> >> Â Â A HelpTopic defines an ivar "contents" - currently referring >> >> Â Â to a string. I may add another ivar "contentType" >> >> Â Â in the future to handle/distinguish additionaly types >> >> Â Â (HTML, SqueaksRichText, Morphs/BookMorph, ...) >> >> >> >> Â 5. HelpSystem should not be limited to Squeak. It should also >> >> Â Â serve the case that when you write and deploy a commercial >> >> Â Â app in Squeak you may use it to provide help to your >> >> Â Â end user/customer >> >> >> >> Â 6. There are two types of help I see: >> >> >> >> Â Â Â A. SystemHelp: Â Â Â Help books/Tutorials/Manuals >> >> Â Â Â B. SystemReference: API Help, class comments >> >> >> >> Â Â HelpSystem is supporting both. >> >> Â Â I already wrote about the differences and details in >> >> >> >> >> >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2010-April/024857.html >> >> >> >> Â 7. I would really like to see support for HTML viewing >> >> Â Â in the image (HTMLViewMorph or so) - maybe based on Scamper >> >> Â Â to get a better viewer (headings, tables, ...) than the >> >> Â Â current plain text. >> >> Â Â If people want to contribute they should start right with this >> >> Â Â task. >> >> >> >> Â Â I know that Laurent already made Scamper loadable in Pharo, >> >> Â Â dont know about the state in Squeak. >> >> >> >> Â Â There is also another HTML browser with markup and CSS now >> >> available >> >> Â Â open source as MIT (WithStyle), I already mentioned this. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/rowanb/blogView?showComments=true&… >> >> >> >> Â 8. I know that we now have discussions on which syntax (Wiki,...) >> >> Â Â to use for describing the contents. >> >> Â Â My answer is: it is important but I dont care (yet) since >> >> Â Â this discussion is useless until we have an HTML viewer (see 7.) >> >> Â Â and Â even when there are different syntax styles you can provides >> >> Â Â builders to transform them into HTML or other contentTypes >> >> Â Â afterwards. >> >> >> >> Â Â See the class HelpBuilder and subclasses. >> >> >> >> Â 9. If you want to write a book for SystemHelp (see 6.A) then >> >> Â Â the help system provides a class "CustomHelp" similar >> >> Â Â to TestCase in SUnit. This class is used to directly >> >> Â Â map book structures to the class hierarchy. >> >> >> >> Â Â The intention was to be able to create, store and manage >> >> Â Â these books directly with the usual Smalltalk tools. >> >> Â Â You can even restructure your book with the RefactoringBrowser. >> >> >> >> Â 10. If you want to write API help you (see 6.B) can contribute >> >> Â Â right now by commenting all the undocumented classes in the >> >> Â Â standard image. >> >> >> >> Â Â HelpSystem just queries these informations from the usual >> >> Â Â sources (class comments, ...). I would not change this >> >> Â Â or make it too complicated since this is what people are >> >> Â Â used too. >> >> >> >> Â Â I dont see more documented classes by introducing a >> >> Â Â special syntax (wiki or whatever) people have to learn/know about >> >> Â Â - so lets clean up documenting the classes first. >> >> >> >> Â 11. HelpSystem is able to get contents from external sources >> >> Â Â (see the IRC example) - but I would prefer that authoring/viewing >> >> Â Â could be done right from within the image. >> >> Â Â Even when the result is stored external afterwards. >> >> >> >> Â Â Look at my example books: I can view and change them >> >> Â Â right from the image and make them available to other images >> >> Â Â using Metacello/Squeaksource. >> >> Â Â Accessibility of docu (viewing and authoring) is the key to keep >> >> Â Â the system and docu in sync and up to date. >> >> >> >> Â Â External authoring mostly results in unmaintained docu (see >> >> Â Â the Squeak Swiki). >> >> >> >> Â 12. I thought again if it is ready to integrate into Pharo and >> >> Â Â Squeak. From all the discussions I would say it is too early. >> >> >> >> Â 13. If one wants the docu on the web the answer is easy: we >> >> Â Â can generate static files or serve them with Seaside. >> >> Â Â But I have no need for that right now, especially since >> >> Â Â this is already available in various forms. >> >> >> >> We can do many things (similar to Python, JavaDoc, you name it) >> >> >> >> But - let's do it step by step. As I said: >> >> >> >> Â - Someone working on a good HTML Viewer that I can integrate >> >> Â would really help moving this forward >> >> Â (based on Scamper or by porting WithStyle) >> >> Â - Updating class comments would also help a lot >> >> >> >> Bye >> >> Torsten >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! >> >> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Pharo-project mailing list >> >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pharo-project mailing list >> > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

by Phil (list)

John & Stephane, Fair enough and good to know that folks like ESUG will be weighing in. I think you're on the right track re: gathering vocal support from the Scratch community that is constructive rather than bashing Apple, and have mainly been wondering why there wasn't a more concerted push from the Smalltalk and dynamic languages community in general talking about how policies like this would make iPhone OS a non-viable platform for them and push them to invest in alternatives such as Android to the exclusion of iPhone OS, rather than in addition to it. I'm not sure how much additional impact that would have, but the endgame for many tools/languages on iPhone OS doesn't seem to be very far off and I'm not terribly optimistic on how this will be decided. Thanks, Phil On Apr 21, 2010, at 4:48 PM, John M McIntosh wrote: > Phil, last week I asked the smalltalk community (ESUG etc), to stay > claim and wait for Apple to think about it based on an email > exchange I had with Steve Jobs. At the time I thought it prudent to > wait a further decision or statement. > > Give that Wired publish Alan & my thoughts on the matter it's likely > now time to consider what to do next. > > So this is NOT the fault of ESUG not being proactive, they were > itching to do something. > > At the moment I believe they are collecting ideas how to approach > the problem in a meaningful manner. > Suggestions are welcome. > > > On 2010-04-21, at 1:29 PM, Phil (list) wrote: > >> I've been surprised that I haven't seen any statement from ESUG re: >> how these policies negatively impact the future prospects for >> Smalltalk on the iPhone/iPad and the investments they've made in >> the platform to date that Apple seems willing to wipe out. >> Wouldn't now be a good time to try to get some visibility on the >> larger issue? >> >> Phil > > -- > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: > squeaker68882 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http:// > www.smalltalkconsulting.com > = > = > = > = > = > ====================================================================== > > > >

April 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Some more dev on Polymorph for DrGeo

by Alexandre Bergel

> Oh, and this one does not work, bad. > > Anyway try the latest one #185 from Squeaksource, it is a moving > target so there are no ConfigurationOfDrGeo for it Much better! I played a bit, this is really cool. I haven't noticed any non-functional bugs. Cheers, Alexandre > > Hilaire > >> Alexandre >> On 21 Apr 2010, at 15:21, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: >>> Hum, I see strange info related to Flap, should be gone. Did you >>> install version #185? >>> >>> Hilaire >>> >>> Alexandre Bergel a Ã©crit : >>>> Hi Hilaire, >>>> I gave a try, but I bumped into an error: >>>> PastUpMorph>>adaptToWorld: send a message adaptToWorld: to an >>>> instance of EventHandler, which is not defined. I attached a log. >>>> I tried on a OSX with a Pharo-1.0-10517-rc4dev10.04.1. If I have >>>> a wrong config, let me know. I would like to try. >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> On 21 Apr 2010, at 12:36, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: >>>>> Known to work with Pharo 1.0. >>>>> >>>>> Someone asked for a more elaborated UI for DrGeo, here are some >>>>> progresses in this polymorphization of DrGeo. In its latest >>>>> Monticello package one can grab DrGeo at http://www.squeaksource.com/DrGeoII >>>>> >>>>> See enclosed screenshot for a quick view. >>>>> >>>>> To start a DrGeo instance, do a "DrGeo new" in a workspace and >>>>> enjoy the UI. >>>>> >>>>> Beware, style tools does not work in the toolbar. >>>>> >>>>> It is also possible to use DrGeo as a service for Etoys when >>>>> executing a "DrGeo sample openInWorld" >>>>> >>>>> It is also possible to load XML description of DrGeo 1.1 >>>>> geometric sketch, if one is interested you can grab it at http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/drgeo/trunk/examples/figures/ >>>>> and load a sketch with a command: >>>>> DrGeo newXml: path >>>>> >>>>> Beware sketch with embedded Scheme code will not work (just try) >>>>> Working sketch: mercedes, euler-line, >>>>> >>>>> DrGeoII comes with a better interface for scripting with >>>>> Smalltalk script, empower by the IDE, much nice than the former >>>>> Scheme one. >>>>> Elaborated demonstration at http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire/index.php?post/script-drgeo >>>>> (automatic translation link with Google in a comment, at the >>>>> end of the article) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <drgeo-poly.png>_______________________________________________ >>>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo- >>>>> project >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

April 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] HelpSystem (was Documentation Team)

by laurent laffont

Yes, Python documentation is really impressive, the best I know. May be we can go the other way, from HelpSystem to web. I've tried something like some months ago.ex: http://magaloma.seasidehosting.st/Collections-Streams. So we can have a documentation page like http://docs.python.org/py3k/ with: - collaborator book - web edition of Pharo By Example - HelpSystem books - API reference generated from comments in classes / methods (with the possibility to add comments like jQuery or PHP online docs.) All on one page, starting point to look for documentation, at http://docs.pharo-project.org Cheers, Laurent Laffont On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Michael Roberts <mike(a)mjr104.co.uk> wrote: > Laurent, i think this is a tension that a number of us feel. should we > put documentation in the colab book, or in the system? For me the two > are distinct. The book, ultimately, should read as a book. That is > there is a logical flow from start to finish and the content is > consistent, from start to finish, for a given version of the system. > Writing a book appears hard - i have never done it - but i have > attempted to copy-edit material that turned out to be as big as a > reasonably sized book; i found that near impossible. So whilst the > colab book effort is currently in its infancy, i would expect over > time it to tend towards being published as a consistent whole. I'm > sure anyone involved in SBE/PBE could comment on the real work > required to write such a book. > > As for help in the system, as torsten nicely articulated either "Help" > or "Reference", this should really be dynamic. It should change at the > unit of which it is changing. so if a new version of a package is > loaded, perhaps the Reference docs change. using hyperlink references > you should be able to jump around it in an arbitrary order. I don't > see a book performing this function. really it must flow consistently > from start to finish and the layout of the book is carefully picked by > the editors. the only realy hyperlink function is from the TOC, and to > any particular index or reference. it is quite distinct from arbitrary > jumping at a system doc level. > > at the moment these two forces I consider are at tension, because > there is not enough reference material in the system as we shipped > 1.0, and i think the barrier to viewing & editing such reference > documentation, as a coherent whole, to my satisfaction is harder than > using Pier. therefore i find it easier to edit pier even if i have > only contributed a few paragraphs. however longer term this will not > be the case. We must strive for something akin to Python > documentation. as an engineering artifact, it is simply stunning; you > can find documentation on anything to do with a given released > version. i'm sure this applies to other languages too, i just use > python as an example because I particularly like its style towards doc > annotation and its completeness. > > so personally i don't think we should export the pier content into the > help system. i see them as quite different, and for both to succeed I > think they require a different point of view to writing the content. > > Torsten - i did not reply to the other thread which stef and I both > commented on, have not had the time. For me i am a total pragmatist > when it comes toward reference documentation and i am only really > interested in reference docs. i fully understand your design and i'm > fine with that. I just hope that as a community we can author the > reference side, since that is what i feel is most missing. > > cheers, > Mike > > 2010/4/21 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>: > > Hi, > > It's cool to have so many interests in documentation. I deeply think it's > a > > key point to success. > > As an hobbyist contributor to Pharo documentation :) I wonder whether I > > should write doc in HelpSystem (which indeed is very cool !) or in the > > collaborator active book (which is very attractive for me). > > So a way to get the best of both world may be to generate an HelpSystem > book > > from the collaborator book. Every day, if there has been changes in the > > collaborative book, it can be "packaged" automatically as an HelpSystem > book > > / SystemHelp , put on squeaksource, having ConfigurationOfHelpSystem > project > > lastVersion pointing to the last package. > > Sounds good ? > > Cheers, > > Laurent Laffont > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> > wrote: > >> > >> To clearify a few things from my side on the discussion > >> on squeak-dev: > >> > >> 1. HelpSystem is working, if ASCII is OK for now we can use > >> it Pharo/Squeak - otherwise I would see it as an early preview. > >> I have clear goals how it should look like in the > >> next iterations. For this more patience is necessary. > >> > >> 2. HelpSystem is independent from where and how the actual > >> information is stored (I think I demonstrated this with > >> the IRC example, the books and the API help). > >> > >> 3. I hope to keep HelpSystem in sync for major Squeak distributions > >> (Squeak, Pharo, Cuis, ...) > >> > >> The last additions from Hannes already broke the code > >> in Pharo. Seems to be a Pharo issue this time > >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2342 > >> > >> But please dont commit when it is only working in > >> Squeak since my development environment is Pharo. > >> > >> 4. Yes, the content is currently ASCII but the design is prepared > >> to add other types in future releases. > >> > >> A HelpTopic defines an ivar "contents" - currently referring > >> to a string. I may add another ivar "contentType" > >> in the future to handle/distinguish additionaly types > >> (HTML, SqueaksRichText, Morphs/BookMorph, ...) > >> > >> 5. HelpSystem should not be limited to Squeak. It should also > >> serve the case that when you write and deploy a commercial > >> app in Squeak you may use it to provide help to your > >> end user/customer > >> > >> 6. There are two types of help I see: > >> > >> A. SystemHelp: Help books/Tutorials/Manuals > >> B. SystemReference: API Help, class comments > >> > >> HelpSystem is supporting both. > >> I already wrote about the differences and details in > >> > >> > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2010-April/024857.html > >> > >> 7. I would really like to see support for HTML viewing > >> in the image (HTMLViewMorph or so) - maybe based on Scamper > >> to get a better viewer (headings, tables, ...) than the > >> current plain text. > >> If people want to contribute they should start right with this > >> task. > >> > >> I know that Laurent already made Scamper loadable in Pharo, > >> dont know about the state in Squeak. > >> > >> There is also another HTML browser with markup and CSS now available > >> open source as MIT (WithStyle), I already mentioned this. > >> > >> > >> > http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/rowanb/blogView?showComments=true&… > >> > >> 8. I know that we now have discussions on which syntax (Wiki,...) > >> to use for describing the contents. > >> My answer is: it is important but I dont care (yet) since > >> this discussion is useless until we have an HTML viewer (see 7.) > >> and even when there are different syntax styles you can provides > >> builders to transform them into HTML or other contentTypes > >> afterwards. > >> > >> See the class HelpBuilder and subclasses. > >> > >> 9. If you want to write a book for SystemHelp (see 6.A) then > >> the help system provides a class "CustomHelp" similar > >> to TestCase in SUnit. This class is used to directly > >> map book structures to the class hierarchy. > >> > >> The intention was to be able to create, store and manage > >> these books directly with the usual Smalltalk tools. > >> You can even restructure your book with the RefactoringBrowser. > >> > >> 10. If you want to write API help you (see 6.B) can contribute > >> right now by commenting all the undocumented classes in the > >> standard image. > >> > >> HelpSystem just queries these informations from the usual > >> sources (class comments, ...). I would not change this > >> or make it too complicated since this is what people are > >> used too. > >> > >> I dont see more documented classes by introducing a > >> special syntax (wiki or whatever) people have to learn/know about > >> - so lets clean up documenting the classes first. > >> > >> 11. HelpSystem is able to get contents from external sources > >> (see the IRC example) - but I would prefer that authoring/viewing > >> could be done right from within the image. > >> Even when the result is stored external afterwards. > >> > >> Look at my example books: I can view and change them > >> right from the image and make them available to other images > >> using Metacello/Squeaksource. > >> Accessibility of docu (viewing and authoring) is the key to keep > >> the system and docu in sync and up to date. > >> > >> External authoring mostly results in unmaintained docu (see > >> the Squeak Swiki). > >> > >> 12. I thought again if it is ready to integrate into Pharo and > >> Squeak. From all the discussions I would say it is too early. > >> > >> 13. If one wants the docu on the web the answer is easy: we > >> can generate static files or serve them with Seaside. > >> But I have no need for that right now, especially since > >> this is already available in various forms. > >> > >> We can do many things (similar to Python, JavaDoc, you name it) > >> > >> But - let's do it step by step. As I said: > >> > >> - Someone working on a good HTML Viewer that I can integrate > >> would really help moving this forward > >> (based on Scamper or by porting WithStyle) > >> - Updating class comments would also help a lot > >> > >> Bye > >> Torsten > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! > >> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 21, 2010

[Pharo-project] I will restart the integration over the week-end

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I was in pharo integration desintoxication phase :) We will have to fix it somehow. but this is cool to see people pushing fixes. Stef

April 21, 2010

[Pharo-project] About help

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi pharo Gofer new squeaksource: 'HelpSystem'; version: 'HelpSystem-Core-tbn.35'; load and enjoy HelpBrowser openOn: SystemReference HelpBrowser openOn: (SystemReference forClass: Integer) HelpBrowser openOn: (SystemReference hierarchyFor: Integer) HelpBrowser openOn: (SystemReference hierarchyWithMethodsFor: Integer) with some tweaks it can be realllllly cool. Stef

April 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fix 2329 - Default MC Directory Setting

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Woah This sounds really really cool. Alain is our setting expert and we gotstuck on the how do write a setting chapter. So I'm happy other people like you push this further. Setf > In Inbox. http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2329. > > Details: > > > Michael Roberts-2 wrote: >> >> I appreciate I hijacked this thread somewhat.... >> > > That's it - I'm pissed and I'm taking my damn thread back ;-) > > > Sean P. DeNigris wrote: >> >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2329 >> >> Pharo image: Pharo 1.0 >> >> In Monticello Browser, when I click "+Repository" and select "directory," >> I'd love to be taken right to the directory where I keep my local >> repositories, instead of having to click to the same place over and over. >> > > Okay, now that we're back on track... > > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >> it would be good to be able to >> either choose to have one local cache on the side of the image >> or one shared among image - this implies a way to store and set it up >> => probably a class variable + a setting in 1.1 >> > > Steph, I followed your suggestion and implemented it as a class var + > settings. Excellent > I had to add the capability to have directory-type settings (which was very > similar to the existing file type settings, predictably). > > Summary: > * Added ability to System-Settings to have directory-based settings > * Added defaultDirectoryName setting to Settings-Monticello > * Added feature to Monticello to remember parent directory where user likes > to keep local repository directories and start directory-choosing dialogs > there. > * Tested (by hand) in PharoCore1.1ALPHA Latest update: #11312 > > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Fix-2329-Default-MC-Directory-Setting-tp2019559p201955… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: Talking to Steve Jobs about Scratch.

by John M McIntosh

Phil, last week I asked the smalltalk community (ESUG etc), to stay claim and wait for Apple to think about it based on an email exchange I had with Steve Jobs. At the time I thought it prudent to wait a further decision or statement. Give that Wired publish Alan & my thoughts on the matter it's likely now time to consider what to do next. So this is NOT the fault of ESUG not being proactive, they were itching to do something. At the moment I believe they are collecting ideas how to approach the problem in a meaningful manner. Suggestions are welcome. On 2010-04-21, at 1:29 PM, Phil (list) wrote: > I've been surprised that I haven't seen any statement from ESUG re: how these policies negatively impact the future prospects for Smalltalk on the iPhone/iPad and the investments they've made in the platform to date that Apple seems willing to wipe out. Wouldn't now be a good time to try to get some visibility on the larger issue? > > Phil -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

April 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] HelpSystem (was Documentation Team)

by Michael Roberts

Laurent, i think this is a tension that a number of us feel. should we put documentation in the colab book, or in the system? For me the two are distinct. The book, ultimately, should read as a book. That is there is a logical flow from start to finish and the content is consistent, from start to finish, for a given version of the system. Writing a book appears hard - i have never done it - but i have attempted to copy-edit material that turned out to be as big as a reasonably sized book; i found that near impossible. So whilst the colab book effort is currently in its infancy, i would expect over time it to tend towards being published as a consistent whole. I'm sure anyone involved in SBE/PBE could comment on the real work required to write such a book. As for help in the system, as torsten nicely articulated either "Help" or "Reference", this should really be dynamic. It should change at the unit of which it is changing. so if a new version of a package is loaded, perhaps the Reference docs change. using hyperlink references you should be able to jump around it in an arbitrary order. I don't see a book performing this function. really it must flow consistently from start to finish and the layout of the book is carefully picked by the editors. the only realy hyperlink function is from the TOC, and to any particular index or reference. it is quite distinct from arbitrary jumping at a system doc level. at the moment these two forces I consider are at tension, because there is not enough reference material in the system as we shipped 1.0, and i think the barrier to viewing & editing such reference documentation, as a coherent whole, to my satisfaction is harder than using Pier. therefore i find it easier to edit pier even if i have only contributed a few paragraphs. however longer term this will not be the case. We must strive for something akin to Python documentation. as an engineering artifact, it is simply stunning; you can find documentation on anything to do with a given released version. i'm sure this applies to other languages too, i just use python as an example because I particularly like its style towards doc annotation and its completeness. so personally i don't think we should export the pier content into the help system. i see them as quite different, and for both to succeed I think they require a different point of view to writing the content. Torsten - i did not reply to the other thread which stef and I both commented on, have not had the time. For me i am a total pragmatist when it comes toward reference documentation and i am only really interested in reference docs. i fully understand your design and i'm fine with that. I just hope that as a community we can author the reference side, since that is what i feel is most missing. cheers, Mike 2010/4/21 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > It's cool to have so many interests in documentation. I deeply think it's a > key point to success. > As an hobbyist contributor to Pharo documentation :) I wonder whether I > should write doc in HelpSystem (which indeed is very cool !) or in the > collaborator active book (which is very attractive for me). > So a way to get the best of both world may be to generate an HelpSystem book > from the collaborator book. Every day, if there has been changes in the > collaborative book, it can be "packaged" automatically as an HelpSystem book > / SystemHelp , put on squeaksource, having ConfigurationOfHelpSystem project > lastVersion pointing to the last package. > Sounds good ? > Cheers, > Laurent Laffont > > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: >> >> To clearify a few things from my side on the discussion >> on squeak-dev: >> >> Â 1. HelpSystem is working, if ASCII is OK for now we can use >> Â Â it Pharo/Squeak - otherwise I would see it as an early preview. >> Â Â I have clear goals how it should look like in the >> Â Â next iterations. For this more patience is necessary. >> >> Â 2. HelpSystem is independent from where and how the actual >> Â Â information is stored (I think I demonstrated this with >> Â Â the IRC example, the books and the API help). >> >> Â 3. I hope to keep HelpSystem in sync for major Squeak distributions >> Â Â (Squeak, Pharo, Cuis, ...) >> >> Â Â The last additions from Hannes already broke the code >> Â Â in Pharo. Seems to be a Pharo issue this time >> Â Â http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2342 >> >> Â Â But please dont commit when it is only working in >> Â Â Squeak since my development environment is Pharo. >> >> Â 4. Yes, the content is currently ASCII but the design is prepared >> Â Â to add other types in future releases. >> >> Â Â A HelpTopic defines an ivar "contents" - currently referring >> Â Â to a string. I may add another ivar "contentType" >> Â Â in the future to handle/distinguish additionaly types >> Â Â (HTML, SqueaksRichText, Morphs/BookMorph, ...) >> >> Â 5. HelpSystem should not be limited to Squeak. It should also >> Â Â serve the case that when you write and deploy a commercial >> Â Â app in Squeak you may use it to provide help to your >> Â Â end user/customer >> >> Â 6. There are two types of help I see: >> >> Â Â Â A. SystemHelp: Â Â Â Help books/Tutorials/Manuals >> Â Â Â B. SystemReference: API Help, class comments >> >> Â Â HelpSystem is supporting both. >> Â Â I already wrote about the differences and details in >> >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2010-April/024857.html >> >> Â 7. I would really like to see support for HTML viewing >> Â Â in the image (HTMLViewMorph or so) - maybe based on Scamper >> Â Â to get a better viewer (headings, tables, ...) than the >> Â Â current plain text. >> Â Â If people want to contribute they should start right with this >> Â Â task. >> >> Â Â I know that Laurent already made Scamper loadable in Pharo, >> Â Â dont know about the state in Squeak. >> >> Â Â There is also another HTML browser with markup and CSS now available >> Â Â open source as MIT (WithStyle), I already mentioned this. >> >> >> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/rowanb/blogView?showComments=true&… >> >> Â 8. I know that we now have discussions on which syntax (Wiki,...) >> Â Â to use for describing the contents. >> Â Â My answer is: it is important but I dont care (yet) since >> Â Â this discussion is useless until we have an HTML viewer (see 7.) >> Â Â and Â even when there are different syntax styles you can provides >> Â Â builders to transform them into HTML or other contentTypes >> Â Â afterwards. >> >> Â Â See the class HelpBuilder and subclasses. >> >> Â 9. If you want to write a book for SystemHelp (see 6.A) then >> Â Â the help system provides a class "CustomHelp" similar >> Â Â to TestCase in SUnit. This class is used to directly >> Â Â map book structures to the class hierarchy. >> >> Â Â The intention was to be able to create, store and manage >> Â Â these books directly with the usual Smalltalk tools. >> Â Â You can even restructure your book with the RefactoringBrowser. >> >> Â 10. If you want to write API help you (see 6.B) can contribute >> Â Â right now by commenting all the undocumented classes in the >> Â Â standard image. >> >> Â Â HelpSystem just queries these informations from the usual >> Â Â sources (class comments, ...). I would not change this >> Â Â or make it too complicated since this is what people are >> Â Â used too. >> >> Â Â I dont see more documented classes by introducing a >> Â Â special syntax (wiki or whatever) people have to learn/know about >> Â Â - so lets clean up documenting the classes first. >> >> Â 11. HelpSystem is able to get contents from external sources >> Â Â (see the IRC example) - but I would prefer that authoring/viewing >> Â Â could be done right from within the image. >> Â Â Even when the result is stored external afterwards. >> >> Â Â Look at my example books: I can view and change them >> Â Â right from the image and make them available to other images >> Â Â using Metacello/Squeaksource. >> Â Â Accessibility of docu (viewing and authoring) is the key to keep >> Â Â the system and docu in sync and up to date. >> >> Â Â External authoring mostly results in unmaintained docu (see >> Â Â the Squeak Swiki). >> >> Â 12. I thought again if it is ready to integrate into Pharo and >> Â Â Squeak. From all the discussions I would say it is too early. >> >> Â 13. If one wants the docu on the web the answer is easy: we >> Â Â can generate static files or serve them with Seaside. >> Â Â But I have no need for that right now, especially since >> Â Â this is already available in various forms. >> >> We can do many things (similar to Python, JavaDoc, you name it) >> >> But - let's do it step by step. As I said: >> >> Â - Someone working on a good HTML Viewer that I can integrate >> Â would really help moving this forward >> Â (based on Scamper or by porting WithStyle) >> Â - Updating class comments would also help a lot >> >> Bye >> Torsten >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! >> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 21, 2010