April 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] CollabActive book :)

by Lukas Renggli

> I see what you mean, but I don't like the way it is displayed, because it makes navigating from section to section cumbersome and just skimming a chapter to get an overview is difficult. While writing/editing the Seaside book we figured out the following simple guidelines that worked out quite well: http://book.seaside.st/system/howto Lukas -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

April 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Linux Pharo VM on Pharo website

by laurent laffont

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 9:07 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>wrote: > thanks laurent > > Do you have an account in the inria gforge? > No Laurent Laffont > > On Apr 7, 2010, at 8:34 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I've prepared the following archive. It may replace the "Unix (3.11-3)" > download link. > > > > > http://lolgzs.free.fr/pharo/squeak-vm/squeak-3.11.3.2151-pharo-src.tar.gz > > > > In this archive: > > > > - patched squeak-vm rev. 2151. (The 2 patches are for FT2Plugin build and > multiple options in CFLAGS to work. Patchs in archive). > > - awk gnuification > > - README with instructions to build and regenerate this source from > VMMaker > > - All Pharo-1.0 tests green (on my machine ...) > > - it has been built/tested by several people in order to send me > tinyBenchmark results :) > > > > The tinyBenchmarks are not as good as Exupery one, but this vary a lot > depending on the CPU. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Laurent Laffont > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

April 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Linux Pharo VM on Pharo website

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

thanks laurent Do you have an account in the inria gforge? On Apr 7, 2010, at 8:34 AM, laurent laffont wrote: > Hi, > > I've prepared the following archive. It may replace the "Unix (3.11-3)" download link. > > http://lolgzs.free.fr/pharo/squeak-vm/squeak-3.11.3.2151-pharo-src.tar.gz > > In this archive: > > - patched squeak-vm rev. 2151. (The 2 patches are for FT2Plugin build and multiple options in CFLAGS to work. Patchs in archive). > - awk gnuification > - README with instructions to build and regenerate this source from VMMaker > - All Pharo-1.0 tests green (on my machine ...) > - it has been built/tested by several people in order to send me tinyBenchmark results :) > > The tinyBenchmarks are not as good as Exupery one, but this vary a lot depending on the CPU. > > Cheers, > > Laurent Laffont > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Redline Smalltalk

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Apr 6, 2010, at 11:01 PM, Dan Ingalls wrote: > Hi, Stef - > >> This is fun because I was rereading the miniimage contents and started to think in terms of package reorganization to support a mini image. >> I reread also Spoon a bit and I was looking at the nuturning. >> Dan it would be nice if you could merge the potatoe change into Jsqueak? > > Potato is JSqueak. I don't get it. I know :) Now having two different repositories with not synchronized code is not really good. This is was I thought that either you put a pointer to potatoe on your page or better you merge their changes. >> Dan, Mariano for his PhD did some analysis about number of object used during typical coding session and we got around 17 %. >> So mariano would like to see how we can get something like LOOM to dispose unused objects :) > > Are you aware of the work I did that enables class fault detection in Squeak? Yes :) MDFault that hijack the method category > If a class has a nil methodDictionary, it causes a fault (ie it sends recoverFromMDFault to the class). That code then restores the MD in addition to any anyalysis you want. I never cleaned it up for posterity, but it enabled lots of interesting work... The problem is that we did some experiences (not too advance with mathieu) and we got all the classes touched after a couple of seconds. > By nilling all but a few MDs, and then running some application, you could > tell exactly what classes were needed and which were not. > See the method discoverActiveClasses. > A special feature even recorded the call stack that caused each class to be > touched. ok this one I was not aware. > What I was doing was restructuring the entire system as a bunch of > image segments that could be swapped out and brought in > on demand -- a sort of user-programmable swapping memory. What mariano did so far is to - read all the image segments code /c included - find it dangerous - clean the project and etoy related code (for me the simple fact that you have all the special cases for projects reveals that there is a deeper fundamental problem. I do not have the answer but normally the "swapouter" should be generic and may be provide hooks for specific cases but not do that in the logic itself. - define some primitive to use the extra bit to collect some measure of object used. - read / understand loom + the same in Java in OOPSLA 2008 next steps - getting married - build some tools to collect thiner grained information One problem we saw with IS is that as soon as you have a reference from outside the root graph to inside your graph, this subgraph does not get saved (because not marked) and this may led to brittle system. Another problem was the size of array which may be double or triple than what you want to save mariano will be more precise than me. > This all worked at one point. Swapping of projects was a bit flakier > because of our weak discipline on pointer scope, but it > even worked in many cases. > > Where I was going with the whole "reorganizeEverything" project was that the SystemDictionary would be partitioned into many separate dictionaries in each project, and that namespaces would be the same as the project swapping unit, and the whole thing would be simple and fast. It actually worked once (;-) also. this is interesting. I'm not convinced that I would unify namespace and project (but this is the case in a module system). Now the question is how to dynamically modularize a system. Because are static organization (which are good for code management) doomed to failed when we look at them from a use point of view? > > Loom was cool, but it could never come close to the speed of imageSegments. I played around with swapping out the entire VM Support category with all classes and methods, and it would swap in the entirety in less than 200 milliseconds, and this was a decade ago. > > Sorry for the long digression, but maybe some of this thinking or even the actual mechanism can be of use to your experiments. Yes now we were thinking that imageSegments should not rely on the internal C organization of objects. > > - Dan > >> >>> James Ladd <james_ladd(a)hotmail.com> wrote... >>>>> Hi Pharo-ites, >>>>> >>>>> I'm working on a port of Pharo to the Java Virtual Machine called Redline Smalltalk. >>>>> (read more here: http://jamesladdcode.com/?p=323) >>>>> >>>>> I'm wanting to port every single class over time, but initially enough to get the >>>>> compiler working and have a minimum runtime. >>>>> >>>>> Of the 1600+/- classes which are those necessary to make a small workable compiler >>>>> and runtime environment? >>> >>> Hi, James - >>> >>> Bert Freudenberg forwarded this along to me, as I'm not on a Pharo mailing list. >>> >>> I think you know of my JSqueak project (a.k.a. Potato) -- a Squeak VM written in Java. The image that I used with it, is the same that I always use for this kind of experiment -- mini.image built in Squeak 2.2. >>> >>> The reason it is so cool is that it includes browser, editor, compiler, inspector debugger, and files -- everything you need for self-support. Plus it has the decompiler, and special temp-name hack, so you can actually browse sources with temp names before any file system works. My favorite thing about this image is that although it is only 600k, if you decompile all its sources, it comprises over 850k of Smalltalk, so it's like a compressed version of the sources with a full-function IDE thrown in for free ;-). >>> >>> As I said, the image is about 600k, of which 240k is code -- 202 classes (x2 if you count the metas) with 4590 methods. This should be a good guide for you in choosing classes to start with. >>> >>> You can actually run this image live in JSqueak on the web if you have Java installed and the planets are aligned correctly... >>> http://Weather-dimensions.com/Dan/JSqueak.jnlp >>> Another interesting statistic is that the Java .jar file is only 433k, including not only the VM, but also the entire image! This is possible because the image is so small that the pointers in it are mostly zeroes, so it compresses nicely. I just checked that this runs, and was happy to see that it putts along at 21 million bytecodes/sec on my laptop. >>> >>> I haven't looked recently, but I think you'll find Mini2.2.image or something like it in the same place where all the historical releases of Squeak are kept. Let me know if you can't find it. >>> >>> Have fun with your project! I hope this helps >>> >>> - Dan >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] CollabActive book :)

by Simon Denier

On 7 avr. 2010, at 01:18, Tudor Girba wrote: > Thanks for pointing this out. Indeed something seems to be wrong in the configuration. I will have to look into this. > > I see that you worked on: http://book.pharo-project.org/book/Announcements > > A couple of notes: > - urls should be lowercase > - you should create book parts for each of the subsections because like this the table of contents works better, you can reference them afterwards an the latex generator will produce the right outcome I see what you mean, but I don't like the way it is displayed, because it makes navigating from section to section cumbersome and just skimming a chapter to get an overview is difficult. Maybe I can add a +value:children+ or +value:contents+ to display the content of the chapter? > > Cheers, > Doru > > On 7 Apr 2010, at 01:14, Simon Denier wrote: > >> >> Also what is missing is the handy toolbar which provides buttons to decorate the text with Pier syntax. Useful when you are not a pro of the syntax. But I don't know how to install this widget. >> >> >> >> On 6 avr. 2010, at 23:41, Tudor Girba wrote: >> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> I am not sure I understand what the problem is. >>> >>> Try this: >>> # go to a page: http://book.pharo-project.org/book/introduction >>> # invoke Add >>> # enter a name (e.g., "somepage") and select Book Portion >>> # press add >>> >>> This should create a new section in the introduction. Please let me know if it works for you. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> On 6 Apr 2010, at 23:24, Michael Roberts wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> is there some brief documentation for how to use the book engine? I am >>>> not a pier expert, i just get the basic ideas. I tried to add some >>>> new pages/sections using the add command, but it kept on logging me >>>> out to the front page. I could not work out whether these actions had >>>> any side-effect or not. If there are no docs, perhaps someone >>>> knowledgeable could just add a page, showing how to add a page... >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> -- >> Simon >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Don't give to get. Just give." > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Simon

April 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Handle Close Event in Image - necessary for 1.0?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Apr 7, 2010, at 5:13 AM, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > Em 06/04/2010 17:48, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > escreveu: > >> Torsten I appreciate your effort but we can only do what can be done >> in the time we can allocate to do a task if you see what I mean. I >> cannot test on windows because we do not have a windows machine. We >> are doing an incredible amount of work but we cannot do more than it >> is reasonable to do. >> Then in freeze time this is freeze time. we will try to get shorter >> iteration cycles and this is not by delaying 1.0 that we are making >> progress on that front. >> And this is not by saying that pharo "will be less quality than" >> ... more or less that it helps. >> So 1.0 will be like it can. And if people bash us this is ok too. >> You remember a while ago one guy asked who is ready to pay 10 Euros >> per month to have a better pharo and we got 6 persons.... > > BTW, did you find a means of collecting the contributions? No we should go to the "prefecture" and check how to create an association. > > -- > Cesar Rabak > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

April 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Handle Close Event in Image - necessary for 1.0?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > TODAY. Imagine I was painting my house.... and this evening this would have to be fixed? > When is the last time that a bug that annoys you on windows got fixed in one day? > because for me on mac so far it took months. John BTW nothing with your vm but with mac osX like the fonts getting unreadable in mail reader. I thought that they would issue a fix quite fast but no probably focusing on itunes crap. Stef

April 7, 2010

[Pharo-project] Linux Pharo VM on Pharo website

by laurent laffont

Hi, I've prepared the following archive. It may replace the "Unix (3.11-3)" download link. http://lolgzs.free.fr/pharo/squeak-vm/squeak-3.11.3.2151-pharo-src.tar.gz In this archive: - patched squeak-vm rev. 2151. (The 2 patches are for FT2Plugin build and multiple options in CFLAGS to work. Patchs in archive). - awk gnuification - README with instructions to build and regenerate this source from VMMaker - All Pharo-1.0 tests green (on my machine ...) - it has been built/tested by several people in order to send me tinyBenchmark results :) The tinyBenchmarks are not as good as Exupery one, but this vary a lot depending on the CPU. Cheers, Laurent Laffont

April 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value

by Igor Stasenko

On 7 April 2010 01:12, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Nicolas, > > I tried, and it has not been smooth. Â What exactly do you mean by the library path? Â Perhaps the easiest way to answer my question is to tell me which libraries should be found there. Â Will the vm no longer use absolute paths in #moduleName? > > I moved on to the RC3 one-click image and am trying to figure out how to point its vm at my image - can't hurt. > Check that a library, you trying to load is listed in ldconfig -p If its not, then add path to it in /etc/ld.so.conf file, so you won't need to specify it in LD_LIBRARY_PATH all the time. > Bill > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Nicolas Cellier > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 5:07 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value > > 2010/4/6 Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: >> Hello all, >> >> I built (I think) a 2151 vm, but I can't run it. Â It keeps complaining >> that it can't find the X11 display driver. Â What am I missing about >> the command line options? Â I generally try to use >> >> Â /full-path-to-vm/squeakvm options /full-path-to-image >> >> Help?? >> >> Bill >> > > Unless you add some specific home made plugin, you should better use latest squeak vm, after setting the LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to your library path. Did you try ? > > Nicolas > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of >> Schwab,Wilhelm K >> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 3:05 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; The general-purpose Squeak >> developers list >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value >> >> Nicolas, >> >> I am running this on Ubuntu (9.10) and have been using the Pharo 0.15.2f vm. Â I just tried a Squeak vm (3.11-3) and could not get it to load my library. Â I have been using an absolute path the the .so; could that be the problem with the Squeak vm?? >> >> There has been a lot of discussion of the Pharo Linux vm lately, with some links and corrections, so I'll have to look around a little. >> >> You asked if I can check the vm sources; the concern is whether or not I will have anything to add :) Â Is there something specific you want me to do? >> >> Bill >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of >> Schwab,Wilhelm K >> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 1:46 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr; The general-purpose Squeak >> developers list >> Subject: [Pharo-project] FFI+Linux+double return value >> >> Hello all, >> >> I had some strange results with double return values and boiled it >> down to a C function >> >> Double AnyDouble() >> { >> Â Â Â Â return 1.0; >> } >> >> called via >> >> Â anyDouble >> Â < cdecl: double 'AnyDouble' () > >> >> and driven by >> >> | out | >> out := Array writeStream. >> 100 timesRepeat:[ >> Â out nextPut:Library default anyDouble ]. >> out contents. >> >> The results are not good. Â It works for the first three elements, after which it produces NaN. Â The real problem appears to be comparison of floats being broken after that point, as evidenced by a walkback that arises when trying to inspect the resulting collection - exploring it works. >> >> I need to try this on the latest image/vm, but wanted to start gathering opinions. Â Any ideas? >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

April 7, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Handle Close Event in Image - necessary for 1.0?

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

Em 06/04/2010 17:48, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > escreveu: > Torsten I appreciate your effort but we can only do what can be done > in the time we can allocate to do a task if you see what I mean. I > cannot test on windows because we do not have a windows machine. We > are doing an incredible amount of work but we cannot do more than it > is reasonable to do. > Then in freeze time this is freeze time. we will try to get shorter > iteration cycles and this is not by delaying 1.0 that we are making > progress on that front. > And this is not by saying that pharo "will be less quality than" > ... more or less that it helps. > So 1.0 will be like it can. And if people bash us this is ok too. > You remember a while ago one guy asked who is ready to pay 10 Euros > per month to have a better pharo and we got 6 persons.... BTW, did you find a means of collecting the contributions? -- Cesar Rabak

April 7, 2010