March 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: about Issue 2118: Let Unicode leadingChar = 0

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks a lot I think that this is a good decision. Here is the mail of andreas mentioned by nicolas. Folks - I think it's time to do something about the leadingChar in Characters that has been on the TODO list for a while. I have been looking over this stuff for some time now, fixing things here and there and laying some of the ground work for the things to come. Here is the good news: Squeak doesn't need the leadingChar any longer. If you are running an updated trunk image you can run entirely without the leadingChar being used, and I've done this for about a week now with no ill side effects (disclaimer: I haven't been using very much of m17n support stuff so there may still be breakage but it means it won't explode in your face straightaway). If you would like to try yourself, all you need to do is to hack Character>>setValue: to say, e.g., value := newValue bitClear: 16r3FC00000. and you're good (and won't ever see a leadingChar). However, the removal of the leading char could be used to do a couple of other things that I would like to discuss and solicit feedback in particular from the folks who care about the leadingChar. The main insight is that although we *can* run without the leadingChar, it doesn't mean we *have* to. As it stands, the leading char is used for two purposes: Character set selection (EncodedCharSet) and (parts of) language support. There is a significant amount of confusion between the two with Latin1/Latin2Environment subclasses of LanguageEnvironment (although these are character encodings not languagse). What I would propose to do here is to define that "leadingChar = 0" which currently means "Latin1 encoding, language neutral" is being redefined to "Unicode encoding, language neutral". What this does is that "Character value: 353" and "Unicode value: 353" become the same, if the environment is considered language neutral which by default it would be. All but the environment which care about the connotations of the language tag should be able to work with this definition without any change whatsovever. The only thing that changes is that the default LanguageEnvironment is Unicode based, using leadingChar=0, most of the subclasses go away (being replaced by the default LanguageEnvironment) and those that we care about, or need a transition plan (i.e., the CJK languages) we keep using the language tag for the time being. That means that *if* you set your language environment to be one of the CJK languages you get a language tag in your strings, but by default the language neutral environment will produce "plain Unicode". Which should make the server/seaside/aida people a lot more happy when dealing with this stuff. For the CJK languages (or other languages requiring support that has been so far expressed via the languag tag) we can use this opportunity and phase the use of the language tag out in favor of using text attributes (which would have to be written first). The main advantage of the proposal is that the people who would like to use plain Unicode get to use it, and the people who care about the language tag and its consequences can still use that as well. How does that sound? Cheers, - Andreas On Mar 8, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > Unicode Leading Char > -------------------- > The default leading char is now 0 instead of 255 making Unicode - UTF > conversions stable. See also discussion at > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2009-August/138915.h… > > > 2010/3/8 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> Hi nicolas >> >> could you give us an executive summary of the reasoning behind this change? >> Does this implies that we get Unicode by default? >> and that Unicode is integrated in the table of language (replacing latin1), >> so this way we do not have to check all the time is it 255? >> >> Stef >> I like all these opportunities to learn things. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 9, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Full time engineer position for Pharo looking for cool engineer :)

by Andrey Larionov

Oh. Why i come in magic world of Smalltalk too late (have no necessary experience at the moment). It's job of my dream in very beautiful place with great colleagues :) Good luck with candidate searching. On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 23:36, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi guys > > Some good news :) > INRIA-lille nord Europe ranked Pharo among the top 3 projects that will receive support for a full time confirmed engineer. > We will know if the national level or the lab will carry the cost by mid april, but for now the position is allocated to Pharo. > > This is not the official job announce but just to give some hints and that you can prepare yourself to > Â Â Â Â - move to France (one hour from paris, 1h30 from London, 35 min from Brussels) > Â Â Â Â - try a lot of good beers (belgium :) > Â Â Â Â - eat french food > Â Â Â Â - have fun with us - yes we are even fun - ok with geeky humor :) > Â Â Â Â - code all the day in Smalltalk and a bit of C > > Apparently from what the DHR services told me, the salary will depend on years of expertise and diplomas but > we can think that 2700 Euros (before final taxes) should be a good working number -- In France the employer pays already taxes so the salary is not brutto but already includes deduction. The social insurance is included and you may want to pay an extra like me (100 Euros) to have a better health insurance. Lille is an active city but not expensive. To give an idea Marcus got a nice sunny close to everything flat with wooden floor for 650 Euros. > > The job will to continue making Pharo (core) better > Â Â Â Â - better tools > Â Â Â Â - better network support > Â Â Â Â - helping with the new compiler > Â Â Â Â - helping with alien and others > Â Â Â Â - cleaning/shrinking > > Duration: 30 months > Starting date: October 2010 > Location: Lille (no remote job possible) > > Do not hesitate to contact us. > > Stef/Marcus > > > > > ------------------------ > Dr. StÃ©phane Ducasse -- Directeur de Recherche (Senior Researcher) > INRIA - USTL - CNRS UMR 8022 > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr > http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/ > **NEW ***Tel 00 33 (0)3 20 43 42 56 Â - Fax 33 3 59 57 78 50 > > 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, > BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza, Villeneuve d'Ascq, Â FR-59650, France. > > Â "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you > Â do different? ... Â especially if, Â by doing something different, > Â today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 9, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] VM crash on Windows

by David T. Lewis

On Mon, Mar 08, 2010 at 07:47:16PM -0500, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > Hello all, > > Good news/bad news: I got it running again :) I have no idea what was wrong, nor what is right now :( > > A corrupt image file is not out of the question. I was having huge problems with Ubuntu (perhaps Linux in general??[*]) and cifs writing to windows shares. That problem suddenly went away some weeks ago, but maybe it is simply less frequent now?? Nearly the same image was running just fine on a sibling box, and copying the image from there to the offending machine got me going again. > > What bothers me here is not so much that Pharo crashed but that it did it so abruptly and without logging anything that I could find. Suggestions would be most welcome. Bill, Whatever is wrong, it is probably not the fault of the Pharo image. When the VM crashes abruptly with no log file generated, it is most likely because it encountered an access violation (segfault) error in some plugin or in an FFI call. If you get a hard failure like that, the image is not able to write the debug log file (because it is already dead - d'oh!). I think that various people have reported problems with virus scanners and that sort of thing on windows. And it is possible that running on network file systems (cifs etc) will expose bugs that do not show up when running on local file systems. I think you're going to be stuck doing some good old process of elimination work here :( Dave

March 9, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] VM crash on Windows

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Hello all, Good news/bad news: I got it running again :) I have no idea what was wrong, nor what is right now :( A corrupt image file is not out of the question. I was having huge problems with Ubuntu (perhaps Linux in general??[*]) and cifs writing to windows shares. That problem suddenly went away some weeks ago, but maybe it is simply less frequent now?? Nearly the same image was running just fine on a sibling box, and copying the image from there to the offending machine got me going again. What bothers me here is not so much that Pharo crashed but that it did it so abruptly and without logging anything that I could find. Suggestions would be most welcome. I also wondered about the vm on the misbehaving box and tried to download a new one from the Pharo site - I have not been able to successfully download it but the alternate link appears to work. Bill [*] I was building up to trying Mandriva when I discovered things had radically improved on Ubuntu. Some writings on the net lead me to suspect that it might have been more than just Ubuntu users suffering, but I am simply not certain. -----Original Message----- From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Schwab,Wilhelm K Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:27 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] VM crash on Windows Hello all, I am having a sudden problem with Pharo crashing on Windows - it's quitting on handling Seaside requests, and I'm getting **no** information. The VM pops up the output console, writes a lot of (probably useful) information to it, and then promptly exits. Is there any way to get it to log the output? So far, the things I have found online say that it will write a dump when it crashes, but it's not doing it. Bill _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 9, 2010

[Pharo-project] VM crash on Windows

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Hello all, I am having a sudden problem with Pharo crashing on Windows - it's quitting on handling Seaside requests, and I'm getting **no** information. The VM pops up the output console, writes a lot of (probably useful) information to it, and then promptly exits. Is there any way to get it to log the output? So far, the things I have found online say that it will write a dump when it crashes, but it's not doing it. Bill

March 9, 2010

[Pharo-project] More news about GSoC!!!

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi folks. We have been working hard with Janko and we built a website for the GSoC 2010 and for future editions! The URL is http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ In 4 days, is the deadline to submit ESUG as mentoring organization. For that purpose, there are several questions that we need to answer, as you can read here: http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#… This is the most important step. If we get selected, then we have project, and we will have to vote which projects to select and finally select students...but all that is ONLY if we are selected as mentoring organization. Last year Squeak wasn't so this year will be hard. We really appreciate any feedback you can give us so that we can achieve this goal. Basically we should demonstrate that we have a big community, with several interesting projects and with mentors and students that are willing to do it. Our first version of those answer are here: http://gsoc2010.esug.org/application.html Please, send feedback. The ideas page is necessary. For this, it would be cool to have several projects. With this we can show that the community is big. Of course, we cannot put projects that has no sense. But don't be shy to submit. We are ALL smalltalk dialects and even Newspeak. Right now there are 13 projects but I think there can be much more. In squeak 2007 there were like 20, and now we are all dialects together. Note that a project doesn't need to be cross dialect. You can propose a project that apply only to one dialect. I cannot take the time to write each proposal...so, if you have a project, right the title, description, technical details, benefits to the student and benefits to the community. Otherwise will be probably ignored. It would be cool to have all mentors already selected for the 12th so that we can demonstrate that we are really willing to do it and that we already have mentors for all projects. Even more, it would be fantastic if there can be mentors or co-mentors. As you can see in the ideas link, there are ideas that are not even complete. No text. Again...if someone want to do it, excellent. Otherwise, they will have to be removed. Now...a personal question...do you think we have enough students to take care about the projects? what is your opinion ? That's all for the moment...please, if you have questions, just ASK!!! 4 days..... Cheers Mariano

March 8, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: about Issue 2118: Let Unicode leadingChar = 0

by Nicolas Cellier

Unicode Leading Char -------------------- The default leading char is now 0 instead of 255 making Unicode - UTF conversions stable. See also discussion at http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2009-August/138915.h… 2010/3/8 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > Hi nicolas > > could you give us an executive summary of the reasoning behind this change? > Does this implies that we get Unicode by default? > and that Unicode is integrated in the table of language (replacing latin1), > so this way we do not have to check all the time is it 255? > > Stef > I like all these opportunities to learn things. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 8, 2010

[Pharo-project] Fwd: about Issue 2118: Let Unicode leadingChar = 0

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi nicolas could you give us an executive summary of the reasoning behind this change? Does this implies that we get Unicode by default? and that Unicode is integrated in the table of language (replacing latin1), so this way we do not have to check all the time is it 255? Stef I like all these opportunities to learn things.

March 8, 2010

[Pharo-project] 11254 Image available

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys sorry for the fact that some of you could not update anymore due to a stupid name for package (we should check that : space ; / cannot be put in the package name. https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/26637/PharoCore-1.1-11254-UNSTABLE… Stef

March 8, 2010

[Pharo-project] Full time engineer position for Pharo looking for cool engineer :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys Some good news :) INRIA-lille nord Europe ranked Pharo among the top 3 projects that will receive support for a full time confirmed engineer. We will know if the national level or the lab will carry the cost by mid april, but for now the position is allocated to Pharo. This is not the official job announce but just to give some hints and that you can prepare yourself to - move to France (one hour from paris, 1h30 from London, 35 min from Brussels) - try a lot of good beers (belgium :) - eat french food - have fun with us - yes we are even fun - ok with geeky humor :) - code all the day in Smalltalk and a bit of C Apparently from what the DHR services told me, the salary will depend on years of expertise and diplomas but we can think that 2700 Euros (before final taxes) should be a good working number -- In France the employer pays already taxes so the salary is not brutto but already includes deduction. The social insurance is included and you may want to pay an extra like me (100 Euros) to have a better health insurance. Lille is an active city but not expensive. To give an idea Marcus got a nice sunny close to everything flat with wooden floor for 650 Euros. The job will to continue making Pharo (core) better - better tools - better network support - helping with the new compiler - helping with alien and others - cleaning/shrinking Duration: 30 months Starting date: October 2010 Location: Lille (no remote job possible) Do not hesitate to contact us. Stef/Marcus ------------------------ Dr. StÃ©phane Ducasse -- Directeur de Recherche (Senior Researcher) INRIA - USTL - CNRS UMR 8022 stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/ **NEW ***Tel 00 33 (0)3 20 43 42 56 - Fax 33 3 59 57 78 50 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza, Villeneuve d'Ascq, FR-59650, France. "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes

March 8, 2010