March 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] More news about GSoC!!!

by Geert Claes

Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > >> Is there a way to vote for ideas? >> > > be a mentor ;) > > Seriously. This is a complicated subject that I am not sure what to do. In > previous Squeak GSoC (2007 and 2008) only the mentors vote for the > project. > Suppose there were 20 projects, and Google gave Squeak 5 slots...then each > mentor vote their most interesting 5 projects...The 5 projects with more > votes, won. > > Letting only the mentors to vote have advantages and disadvantages. > Advantages is that there is a lot of people in the community that only > talk, > only ask, only "I would like". But few do. We don't want to feed those who > only talk. > On the other hand, there is a lot of people who works a lot, but they are > not mentors...so, it is a pity for them. But you cannot make that > difference. > > So, as you can see, it is not easy. > > If we get selected then we should review this. > > Mariano > Fair enough, even though I would like to be more actively involved, I simply don't have the time at the moment ... voting could give all mentors an indication of the popularity of their ideas though couldn't it? -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/More-news-about-GSoC-tp1585307p1585737.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 9, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] networking problem (repost)

by Michael Rueger

On 3/9/2010 10:08 AM, Michael Roberts wrote: > So now my conclusion is firmly we have to take a step back and > simplify. for pharo 1.0 unless we have someone with a lot of time i > do not feel we can untangle the resolver and socket code. We should As the one originally being responsible for integrating the new socket code I'm voting in favor of this solution. The new socket code was initiated in the OLPC project and I was (falsely) assuming that it it would be stable and/or be maintained to a satisfactory level. So either the OLPC people have fixes that we don't know about (just looked at the latest etoys image and the code seems to be the same) or it just happens to work for them. Or people using the etoys version simply don't do anything exciting with the network. Michael

March 9, 2010

[Pharo-project] networking problem (repost)

by Michael Roberts

i'm not sure this email came through whilst the list was down sunday/monday so i am reposting by request. i will add some further content at the end ===================================================== I have dug around the network problem (OS X) in Pharo 1.0. I am convinced #useOldNetwork = true does not work. Looking through old core images, it never worked; at least with my current OS and VM choice. i have been using Magma as a test case. Indeed it is broken on 10508 rc2, however if I set NetNameResolver classPool at: #UseOldNetwork put: false and hack #initializeNetwork to make the reference false as well (since it can change its value once set)... I can run the first 10mins of the Magma test suite which is heavy on network use. I only can't complete the magma test case due to unrelated issues. I've asked Chris to see if these changes work for him. i propose in Pharo Core 1.0 -set UseOldNetwork := false, and change all references that try and set it to true -now we are only using the new network infrastructure, -gather fresh test cases from the community where networking fails and fix them with a final push. -do not try and fix the UseOldNetwork := true branches If we can not get this approach above to work then as a fallback I propose to remove all the new network code and revert it all back to the point where it was simpler where socket addresses were just byte arrays...We then spend more time in 1.1 trying to get it to work properly. Does anyone care at this point how the infrastructure looks in 1.0? The fact that our rc2 network layer is totally bust is enough to do something drastic to finish the cycle. I propose in Pharo 1.1 -strip out all useOldNetwork = true branches. it does not work, and it is a mess to have these two branches side by side, especially when the value of useOldNetwork can change on its own (this happened a number of times to me) I guess due to all the attempts to check and initialize the network. somewhere it flips. obviously we need some focus on testing a final set of changes, but please consider the direction I outline. thanks, Mike ==================================================== I spent some time after writing this above looking at the magma test case more deeply and chatting to Chris offline. After fixing a quoting issue with magma image launching i managed to get the magma test suite to run for about 30 mins (until it stopped...). So in principle the networking does work... Then to my astonishment i could not get it to run again at all for another few hours, i got no where... it was like it was a dream. I suspect the problem is the exact network interfaces that the server and client try to connect/bind to. In the old ipv4 world it was fairly simple. i suspect in the ipv6 world, different parts of magma are binding to different interfaces and i find it impenetrable to work out which. i have lots of interfaces on my machine (wifi, ethernet, parallels virtual, etc) and when you do NetNameResolver localHostAddress (or whatever the message is) you get back only the first one. I think this could be the cause of issues. Adrian mentions to me John thought they came back randomly. So now my conclusion is firmly we have to take a step back and simplify. for pharo 1.0 unless we have someone with a lot of time i do not feel we can untangle the resolver and socket code. We should revert it back to the original #[192 168 0 10] style code when it used to be simple. This assumes the primitives still support this. Then what I would like to see in Pharo 1.1 or 1.2, is that we separate out classes for ip4 and ip6 support, and make them work cleanly and transparently together. Just because we have ip6 support i don't want to be forced to use it. we should have a clearer interface to enumerate all the network interfaces on the machine, and we should really document this heavily. I think the new help system would be great for this. I started to have to write my own scripts just to document the change in API across images. these can go straight into a help system... cheers, Mike

March 9, 2010

[Pharo-project] FieldNode

by Pavel Krivanek

Hi, I suppose that the class FieldNode should be removed. It is a Tweak hack: "FieldNode handles field access in Tweak, e.g. self fieldName := foo => self fieldName: foo." it is used only in Encoder >>Â #init:context:notifying: where it supposes nil offset. There's no such case in Pharo. Cheers -- Pavel

March 9, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] More news about GSoC!!!

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Geert Claes <geert.wl.claes(a)gmail.com>wrote: > > On the Application Page the answer to question 6 wrongly links to > http://esug2010.esug.org/ideas.html instead of > http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas.html > Thanks Geert, I have just fix it. > Is there a way to vote for ideas? > be a mentor ;) Seriously. This is a complicated subject that I am not sure what to do. In previous Squeak GSoC (2007 and 2008) only the mentors vote for the project. Suppose there were 20 projects, and Google gave Squeak 5 slots...then each mentor vote their most interesting 5 projects...The 5 projects with more votes, won. Letting only the mentors to vote have advantages and disadvantages. Advantages is that there is a lot of people in the community that only talk, only ask, only "I would like". But few do. We don't want to feed those who only talk. On the other hand, there is a lot of people who works a lot, but they are not mentors...so, it is a pity for them. But you cannot make that difference. So, as you can see, it is not easy. If we get selected then we should review this. Mariano > -- > View this message in context: > http://n4.nabble.com/More-news-about-GSoC-tp1585307p1585670.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 9, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] More news about GSoC!!!

by Geert Claes

On the Application Page the answer to question 6 wrongly links to http://esug2010.esug.org/ideas.html instead of http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas.html Is there a way to vote for ideas? -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/More-news-about-GSoC-tp1585307p1585670.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 9, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] re: [vwnc] More news about GSoC!!! Some Idea

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Good idea. Write the proposal and send it to me :) In addition, I think you could demonsrtrate why it makes sense for example, to have stats within the framework. The GSoC is done with AidaWeb and yesterdays Janko told me there is a stats page automatically done where you can see the requests, see where it cames from....etc...it was could...but I think the key point is: is that better than just use google analythics ? what are the advantages ? because maybe it doesn't make sense to reivent the wheel. Probably there are reasons, as AidaWeb did it....but remarking them and explaining why having a statics package in the framework can be better that google analythics. Just my opinion. Cheers Mariano On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Julian Fitzell <jfitzell(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Yes. Administrative tools for Seaside would be an excellent project. > > Julian > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Maarten MOSTERT > <maarten.mostert(a)wanadoo.fr> wrote: > > Mariano, > > > > This is a very good initiative ! > > > > I don't think what other peoples opinion is about this, but personnally I > would appreciate if the base of Seaside > > had some integrated statistics tools, registration of certain actions, > info aout sessions etc. > > Just an idea.. > > > > @+Maarten, > > > > > >> Message du 09/03/10 01:13 > >> De : "Mariano Martinez Peck" > >> A : "Pharo Development" > > , "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" > > , "ESUG Members" , "Seaside - general discussion" > > , "AIDA/Web general discussion list" , help-smalltalk(a)gnu.org, > > vwnc(a)cs.uiuc.edu, beta(a)seaside.gemstone.com > >> Copie Ã : > >> Objet : [vwnc] More news about GSoC!!! > >> > >> Hi folks. We have been working hard with Janko and we built a website > for > >> the GSoC 2010 and for future editions! > >> > >> The URL is http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ > >> > >> In 4 days, is the deadline to submit ESUG as mentoring organization. For > >> that purpose, there are several questions that we need to answer, as you > can > >> read here: > >> > http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#… > >> > >> This is the most important step. If we get selected, then we have > project, > >> and we will have to vote which projects to select and finally select > >> students...but all that is ONLY if we are selected as mentoring > >> organization. Last year Squeak wasn't so this year will be hard. We > really > >> appreciate any feedback you can give us so that we can achieve this > goal. > >> Basically we should demonstrate that we have a big community, with > several > >> interesting projects and with mentors and students that are willing to > do > >> it. > >> > >> Our first version of those answer are here: > >> http://gsoc2010.esug.org/application.html > >> > >> Please, send feedback. > >> > >> The ideas page is necessary. For this, it would be cool to have several > >> projects. With this we can show that the community is big. Of course, we > >> cannot put projects that has no sense. But don't be shy to submit. We > are > >> ALL smalltalk dialects and even Newspeak. Right now there are 13 > projects > >> but I think there can be much more. In squeak 2007 there were like 20, > and > >> now we are all dialects together. Note that a project doesn't need to be > >> cross dialect. You can propose a project that apply only to one dialect. > >> I cannot take the time to write each proposal...so, if you have a > project, > >> right the title, description, technical details, benefits to the student > and > >> benefits to the community. Otherwise will be probably ignored. > >> > >> It would be cool to have all mentors already selected for the 12th so > that > >> we can demonstrate that we are really willing to do it and that we > already > >> have mentors for all projects. Even more, it would be fantastic if there > can > >> be mentors or co-mentors. > >> > >> As you can see in the ideas link, there are ideas that are not even > >> complete. No text. Again...if someone want to do it, excellent. > Otherwise, > >> they will have to be removed. > >> > >> Now...a personal question...do you think we have enough students to take > >> care about the projects? what is your opinion ? > >> > >> That's all for the moment...please, if you have questions, just ASK!!! > >> > >> 4 days..... > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> Mariano > >> > >> > >> [ (pas de nom de fichier) (0.1 Ko) ] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > seaside mailing list > > seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > >

March 9, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] re: [vwnc] More news about GSoC!!! Some Idea

by Julian Fitzell

Yes. Administrative tools for Seaside would be an excellent project. Julian On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Maarten MOSTERT <maarten.mostert(a)wanadoo.fr> wrote: > Mariano, > > This is a very good initiative ! > > I don't think what other peoples opinion is about this, but personnally I would appreciate if the base of Seaside > had some integrated statistics tools, registration of certain actions, info aout sessions etc. > Just an idea.. > > @+Maarten, > > >> Message du 09/03/10 01:13 >> De : "Mariano Martinez Peck" >> A : "Pharo Development" > , "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" > , "ESUG Members" , "Seaside - general discussion" > , "AIDA/Web general discussion list" , help-smalltalk(a)gnu.org, > vwnc(a)cs.uiuc.edu, beta(a)seaside.gemstone.com >> Copie Ã : >> Objet : [vwnc] More news about GSoC!!! >> >> Hi folks. We have been working hard with Janko and we built a website for >> the GSoC 2010 and for future editions! >> >> The URL is http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ >> >> In 4 days, is the deadline to submit ESUG as mentoring organization. For >> that purpose, there are several questions that we need to answer, as you can >> read here: >> http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#… >> >> This is the most important step. If we get selected, then we have project, >> and we will have to vote which projects to select and finally select >> students...but all that is ONLY if we are selected as mentoring >> organization. Last year Squeak wasn't so this year will be hard. We really >> appreciate any feedback you can give us so that we can achieve this goal. >> Basically we should demonstrate that we have a big community, with several >> interesting projects and with mentors and students that are willing to do >> it. >> >> Our first version of those answer are here: >> http://gsoc2010.esug.org/application.html >> >> Please, send feedback. >> >> The ideas page is necessary. For this, it would be cool to have several >> projects. With this we can show that the community is big. Of course, we >> cannot put projects that has no sense. But don't be shy to submit. We are >> ALL smalltalk dialects and even Newspeak. Right now there are 13 projects >> but I think there can be much more. In squeak 2007 there were like 20, and >> now we are all dialects together. Note that a project doesn't need to be >> cross dialect. You can propose a project that apply only to one dialect. >> I cannot take the time to write each proposal...so, if you have a project, >> right the title, description, technical details, benefits to the student and >> benefits to the community. Otherwise will be probably ignored. >> >> It would be cool to have all mentors already selected for the 12th so that >> we can demonstrate that we are really willing to do it and that we already >> have mentors for all projects. Even more, it would be fantastic if there can >> be mentors or co-mentors. >> >> As you can see in the ideas link, there are ideas that are not even >> complete. No text. Again...if someone want to do it, excellent. Otherwise, >> they will have to be removed. >> >> Now...a personal question...do you think we have enough students to take >> care about the projects? what is your opinion ? >> >> That's all for the moment...please, if you have questions, just ASK!!! >> >> 4 days..... >> >> Cheers >> >> Mariano >> >> >> [ (pas de nom de fichier) (0.1 Ko) ] > > > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >

March 9, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: [Esug-list] More news about GSoC!!!

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire(a)ofset.org> wrote: > Mariano, > > As Stephane mentionned, my proposal is quite close the a prexisting one > related to parcel and fast code loading. > I would live we merge those two proposal in one better proposal. I don't > like much duplication when resources is quite limited. Do you think it is > possible? > > Yes, it is possible to merge. It is also possible to merge it after. I mean, once we get selected (if that happens), you can merge it. I tell you this so that not to loose too much time. On the other hand, if you want to do it now, perfect. Talk to Stef and send me a merged version and I upload the site. Cheers Mariano > Hilaire > > > 2010/3/8 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > >> Hi folks. We have been working hard with Janko and we built a website for >> the GSoC 2010 and for future editions! >> >> The URL is http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ >> >> In 4 days, is the deadline to submit ESUG as mentoring organization. For >> that purpose, there are several questions that we need to answer, as you can >> read here: >> >> http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2010/faqs#… >> >> This is the most important step. If we get selected, then we have project, >> and we will have to vote which projects to select and finally select >> students...but all that is ONLY if we are selected as mentoring >> organization. Last year Squeak wasn't so this year will be hard. We really >> appreciate any feedback you can give us so that we can achieve this goal. >> Basically we should demonstrate that we have a big community, with several >> interesting projects and with mentors and students that are willing to do >> it. >> >> Our first version of those answer are here: >> http://gsoc2010.esug.org/application.html >> >> Please, send feedback. >> >> The ideas page is necessary. For this, it would be cool to have several >> projects. With this we can show that the community is big. Of course, we >> cannot put projects that has no sense. But don't be shy to submit. We are >> ALL smalltalk dialects and even Newspeak. Right now there are 13 projects >> but I think there can be much more. In squeak 2007 there were like 20, and >> now we are all dialects together. Note that a project doesn't need to be >> cross dialect. You can propose a project that apply only to one dialect. >> I cannot take the time to write each proposal...so, if you have a project, >> right the title, description, technical details, benefits to the student and >> benefits to the community. Otherwise will be probably ignored. >> >> It would be cool to have all mentors already selected for the 12th so that >> we can demonstrate that we are really willing to do it and that we already >> have mentors for all projects. Even more, it would be fantastic if there can >> be mentors or co-mentors. >> >> As you can see in the ideas link, there are ideas that are not even >> complete. No text. Again...if someone want to do it, excellent. Otherwise, >> they will have to be removed. >> >> Now...a personal question...do you think we have enough students to take >> care about the projects? what is your opinion ? >> >> That's all for the moment...please, if you have questions, just ASK!!! >> >> 4 days..... >> >> Cheers >> >> Mariano >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Esug-list mailing list >> Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >> http://lists.esug.org/listinfo/esug-list >> >> > > > -- > http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire > > > >

March 9, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] about the hudson server

by Yanni Chiu

stephane ducasse wrote: > Hi yanni > > I wanted to know if you can tell us what means (unstable) in the report summary > > http://hudson.jooshr.org/job/Pharo1.1/81/ > is it because the tests cannot run? Here's my interpretation. The status of the last build (the big ball in the first column) is important: blue - the code built okay, and all tests passed yellow - the code built okay, but some tests failed grey - the build/test was aborted (either manually, or by the Hudson build timeout plugin I installed) The sun/cloud icon in the second column is some fuzzy indicator that uses the last few builds in its calculation. In the case of Pharo1.1 build 81 (your link above), I don't see an "unstable" report. I see the "Aborted" when I hover over the grey ball. What's confusing is that if you hover over the shiny sun icon, you get a "Build stability: no recent builds failed". That's misleading, because the most recent build was aborted - but that does not count as a failure. Now that I think about it, there might be an option on the timeout plugin, to cause a build failure, when it's been aborted. The timeout happens (and therefore an aborted build), when: - PharoDebug.log is generated and debugger is opened - during the build (i.e. loading packages or running scripts) a popup appears that requires a user response - when running tests, user input is required - long running test exceeds the timeout that was set I usually look at the workspace to see what's happening, or has happened. I watch the package-cache or the size of .changes file to see if code is still loading. I watch the size of .xml test result files, to see if tests are still running. "watch" means click the refresh every few seconds. Back to build 81, the console output has: Build timed out. Aborting Build was aborted Archiving artifacts Recording test results Test reports were found but none of them are new. Did tests run? For example, /home/yanni/.hudson/jobs/Pharo1.1/workspace/core11-tests/AllTestCases.xml is 23 hr old Finished: ABORTED Which means that it's stuck during the package load, since the test .xml was never overwritten. At this point, I would download core11 from the workspace, using the "all files in zip" link. Open the image locally, and filein the core11.st script, to see what happened.

March 9, 2010