March 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [smalltalk-research] Re: [Esug-list] Google Summer Of Code 2010 news!!!

by John M McIntosh

Ok, I'm a bit behind in my email but I would help mentor if need be. Just to ensure it works ok on os-x and also to ensure support for objective-c creeps in there somehow since Apple's direction is towards everything in Objective-C frameworks versus "C" library calls. On 2010-03-07, at 3:24 PM, Gilad Bracha wrote: > I'm all for it, and hope that John or Eliot can mentor. Datapoints I'll add: > > There is some support for parsing C headers in the Newspeak system. > Aliens have been ported to Strongtalk as well as Squeak. > > Finally - what licensing would apply if GNU Smalltalk were used? GPL is a big problem. Even LGPL elicits an immune response in a lot of commercial contexts. Is there a GSoC policy on this? > > On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > 5) Work on a cross-dialect foreign function call interface and implement it in at least two dialects. Candidates include Alien and GNU Smalltalk's CObject (using existing implementation has the advantage of having to implement in only _one_ other dialect!). Bonus points for implementing a C parser that would be able to construct bindings. GNU Smalltalk already contains a C preprocessor implementation. > > > I think this project could be a good idea for GSoC. As I said, I would love if it (optionally at least) could not to block the complete VM while a function is being called. > > I would also love what you said: parse .h of libraries and automatically create the wrapper for Smalltalk. At least create the invocations to the functions, and map the structures to objects... > > We need to write a title, a little description and if possible titles like "technical details", "benefits to the students" and "benefits to the community". > > If you are interested please send it to me and I add it to the list. > > We also need a mentor (and a student, of course)...anyone is willing to do it ? > > Cheers > > Mariano > > > > -- > Cheers, Gilad -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

March 10, 2010

[Pharo-project] MIT strikes back (was Re: [smalltalk-research] Re: [Esug-list] Google Summer Of Code 2010 news!!!)

by Torsten Bergmann

Two interesting articles: How Sun failed with OpenSource [1] ... and on Liferay switching away from MIT to LGPL (see [2]), interesting - especially the reaction from community in the comments. Bye T. [1] http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=31418&tag=nl.e539 [2] http://www.liferay.com/web/bryan.cheung/blog/-/blogs/liferay-adopting-the-l… -- GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

March 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] ESUG gentle actions reminder

by John M McIntosh

On 2010-03-09, at 11:28 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > who knows? > Some people with a small vision :) > > And may be some people may not have noticed that over the years some open source dialect got a lot out of ESUG > and they could insinuate that ESUG coudl be against it. > We did not put all the cost of the actions because we are not that picky > but a project is about 2500 Euros, and summertalk was 1500 Euros now 2500 Euros > and cleaning Squeak VM for example cost several project cost. Because of that, (Squeak for the Macintosh V5 and iSqueak v2.x ) It made it possible for me to implement a Scratch viewer for the iPhone If you check the reviews at http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/scratch/id358266270?mt=8 You'll see it made a lot of 12 years old kids happy. Although the kids don't directly see the ESUG funding here, it did have an impact in their lives. Also out of it the MIT folks will have a transition platform (Scratch on the iPad) to explore UI issues with. -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

March 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] MIT strikes back (was Re: [smalltalk-research] Re: [Esug-list] Google Summer Of Code 2010 news!!!)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> What the starting point is will depend on to what extent Cog has >>> been open sourced (Teleplace may choose to open source >>> single-threaded Cog initially, keeping back the threaded FFI for >>> a while, it may not open source Cog at all; we'll see :) ). >> May be I the only one to notice the:) which I have problem to >> understand since for me it announces that COG may not be >> open-source. > > Isn't this what you wanted to allow companies to do, when you chose the > MIT license? I don't understand, why should you care? > > I see some irony... Not me. Freedom of choice is a political attitude. I understand GPL goal but I do not adhere to it. I respect people pushing it but not in my way. I'm not sure that we should debate that here but we do not have the single answer.

March 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] Google Summer Of Code 2010 news!!!

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

welcome! On Mar 10, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Massimiliano Bertinetti wrote: > I'm completely newcomer to Smalltalk and I think it was a good idea. > > Il giorno mer, 10/03/2010 alle 14.08 +0000, stan shepherd ha scritto: >> I know the deadline approaches, however- how does the community feel >> about a project to implement a real demonstration system (along the >> lines of defunct Sushi store)? Presumably in Seaside, but whichever >> framework the community/mentor/student decided on. With a nice >> interface using (again presumptively) jQueryUI to give a pleasant >> end-user experience. Similarly implementing a persistence solution. >> The idea is to present potential newcomers to Smalltalk with a viable >> stack that could be picked up as is, to give a starting point for >> developing web applications. Potentially they could simply make a >> hosted copy, on the same server. >> >> The idea would be that on the various examples page, you could access >> an e-commerce site running a Smalltalk technology stack. Ideally >> really selling something Smalltalk related, (proceeds to eg ESUG), >> maybe also an Amazon affiliate page . If you liked it, you could copy >> the whole project, change eg your Paypal details, change your >> products, and be in business. (Obviously there are real world >> considerations - this is the concept). And coders looking for examples >> would see code that was fully completed, not onClick: (... some alert >> saying you clicked but no real example of how to handle it, eg how to >> transfer the order line details to the payments server). >> >> I think it would do wonders for the take-up of Smalltalk. >> >> If people like the idea in general, I'm happy to write up the brief. I >> don't think i'm the right person for the mentor, but you know who you >> are ;) >> >> For the student, they would get experience in implementing the >> application itself , as well as assembling the stack. They could be >> the next Auctomatic founders. >> >> Do people think it's useful for me to develop a proposal? >> >> Cheers, ..Stan >> >> PS I realise that picking a component as part of the stack is fraught >> with possibilities of offending supporters of an alternative project. >> But more Smalltalkers overall means more potential users of each >> project >> >> >> On 6 March 2010 12:04, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi smalltalkers. I have been asked to be the admin of GSoC 2010. The backup >>> or second admin is Janko MivÅ¡ek. As you may know, Squeak has participated in >>> GSoC 2007, 2008 but failed (not accepted) in 2009. We are not sure if we >>> will succeed this year but we will try to do as much as possible. >>> >>> We think that one of the most important reasons why we failed in 2009 is >>> that Google was looking for bigger communities that Squeak. This is why this >>> year we all go under the ESUG umbrella. We present ESUG as the mentor >>> organization and we cover ALL open-source Smalltalk dialects, not only >>> Squeak. Pharo, Smalltalk/X, GNU Smalltalk, Cuis..they are all invited to >>> participate. Also cross platform projects like Seaside, AidaWeb, Magma, etc >>> are welcome. >>> >>> <forThoseWhoDoesntKnowWhatGSoCIs> >>> It is a Google program that support (money) students to work on different >>> open-source projects. Google doesn't talk or manage directly to the students >>> but trough "Mentoring Organisations". Those organizations have to apply to >>> GSoC. They have to give a lot of information, included a list of >>> ideas/projects. Each project has a description and a mentor. Then the >>> students apply for each project. If the organization gets selected by Google >>> they will tell you how many "slots" they give. Suppose they give 5 but we >>> have 20 projects....then we vote and the most voted projects win. The >>> student has to do the project and the mentor has to help and guide him. The >>> mentor receives 500 USD and the student 4500USD. >>> For more information read: http://code.google.com/soc/ >>> </forThoseWhoDoesntKnowWhatGSoCIs> >>> >>> The most important thing is the deadlines we have. We started late so we are >>> very near to the first deadline which is 12/03/2010 (less than one week). >>> For that deadline we need to submit all the information of the mentor >>> organization (answering several questions) and give the list of >>> ideas/projects and the mentors of that. >>> >>> We have created a webpage (Thanks Janko!!) where we will put all the >>> information. We will make this page public soon (we still need to review a >>> couple of things). >>> But for the moment we would REALLY appreciate if tell us your ideas. To do >>> this, just answer to this email. Then we will collect the information and >>> put in the website. For each idea you need: a short title and a paragraph >>> (for the moment) explaining the idea. >>> After, we need that the people that are willing to be mentors start to apply >>> as mentors...please, consider yourself being mentor. Sometimes it is not >>> that difficult. I mean, don't be shy as sometimes being helpful, being aware >>> of the dates, answering emails, etc is more important than the Smalltalk >>> knoweldege. We can have a lot of ideas, but we need also mentors for that. >>> We even would need a "substitute" for each mentor... >>> >>> Just as an example you can see the ideas of the previous years: >>> 2007: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5936 >>> 2008: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6031 >>> 2009: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6120 >>> >>> That's all for the moment. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Mariano >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> seaside mailing list >>> seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] Google Summer Of Code 2010 news!!!

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Mar 10, 2010, at 3:08 PM, stan shepherd wrote: > I know the deadline approaches, however- how does the community feel > about a project to implement a real demonstration system (along the > lines of defunct Sushi store)? Presumably in Seaside, but whichever > framework the community/mentor/student decided on. With a nice > interface using (again presumptively) jQueryUI to give a pleasant > end-user experience. Similarly implementing a persistence solution. > The idea is to present potential newcomers to Smalltalk with a viable > stack that could be picked up as is, to give a starting point for > developing web applications. Potentially they could simply make a > hosted copy, on the same server. sounds cool In the same vein having a good support for stupid applications like my comix collection, our bibtext management system, all the applications edit copy search display in list display in report a stuff or a list of stuff. > The idea would be that on the various examples page, you could access > an e-commerce site running a Smalltalk technology stack. Ideally > really selling something Smalltalk related, (proceeds to eg ESUG), > maybe also an Amazon affiliate page . If you liked it, you could copy > the whole project, change eg your Paypal details, change your > products, and be in business. (Obviously there are real world > considerations - this is the concept). And coders looking for examples > would see code that was fully completed, not onClick: (... some alert > saying you clicked but no real example of how to handle it, eg how to > transfer the order line details to the payments server). > > I think it would do wonders for the take-up of Smalltalk. > > If people like the idea in general, I'm happy to write up the brief. I > don't think i'm the right person for the mentor, but you know who you > are ;) > > For the student, they would get experience in implementing the > application itself , as well as assembling the stack. They could be > the next Auctomatic founders. > > Do people think it's useful for me to develop a proposal? yes! > > Cheers, ..Stan > > PS I realise that picking a component as part of the stack is fraught > with possibilities of offending supporters of an alternative project. > But more Smalltalkers overall means more potential users of each > project > > > On 6 March 2010 12:04, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi smalltalkers. I have been asked to be the admin of GSoC 2010. The backup >> or second admin is Janko MivÅ¡ek. As you may know, Squeak has participated in >> GSoC 2007, 2008 but failed (not accepted) in 2009. We are not sure if we >> will succeed this year but we will try to do as much as possible. >> >> We think that one of the most important reasons why we failed in 2009 is >> that Google was looking for bigger communities that Squeak. This is why this >> year we all go under the ESUG umbrella. We present ESUG as the mentor >> organization and we cover ALL open-source Smalltalk dialects, not only >> Squeak. Pharo, Smalltalk/X, GNU Smalltalk, Cuis..they are all invited to >> participate. Also cross platform projects like Seaside, AidaWeb, Magma, etc >> are welcome. >> >> <forThoseWhoDoesntKnowWhatGSoCIs> >> It is a Google program that support (money) students to work on different >> open-source projects. Google doesn't talk or manage directly to the students >> but trough "Mentoring Organisations". Those organizations have to apply to >> GSoC. They have to give a lot of information, included a list of >> ideas/projects. Each project has a description and a mentor. Then the >> students apply for each project. If the organization gets selected by Google >> they will tell you how many "slots" they give. Suppose they give 5 but we >> have 20 projects....then we vote and the most voted projects win. The >> student has to do the project and the mentor has to help and guide him. The >> mentor receives 500 USD and the student 4500USD. >> For more information read: http://code.google.com/soc/ >> </forThoseWhoDoesntKnowWhatGSoCIs> >> >> The most important thing is the deadlines we have. We started late so we are >> very near to the first deadline which is 12/03/2010 (less than one week). >> For that deadline we need to submit all the information of the mentor >> organization (answering several questions) and give the list of >> ideas/projects and the mentors of that. >> >> We have created a webpage (Thanks Janko!!) where we will put all the >> information. We will make this page public soon (we still need to review a >> couple of things). >> But for the moment we would REALLY appreciate if tell us your ideas. To do >> this, just answer to this email. Then we will collect the information and >> put in the website. For each idea you need: a short title and a paragraph >> (for the moment) explaining the idea. >> After, we need that the people that are willing to be mentors start to apply >> as mentors...please, consider yourself being mentor. Sometimes it is not >> that difficult. I mean, don't be shy as sometimes being helpful, being aware >> of the dates, answering emails, etc is more important than the Smalltalk >> knoweldege. We can have a lot of ideas, but we need also mentors for that. >> We even would need a "substitute" for each mentor... >> >> Just as an example you can see the ideas of the previous years: >> 2007: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5936 >> 2008: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6031 >> 2009: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6120 >> >> That's all for the moment. >> >> Cheers >> >> Mariano >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> seaside mailing list >> seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] ESUG gentle actions reminder

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

And this year your wife will not get bored at ESUG since barcelona is coooool. Stef On Mar 10, 2010, at 2:15 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 10 March 2010 09:28, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> who knows? >> Some people with a small vision :) >> >> And may be some people may not have noticed that over the years some open source dialect got a lot out of ESUG >> and they could insinuate that ESUG coudl be against it. >> We did not put all the cost of the actions because we are not that picky >> but a project is about 2500 Euros, and summertalk was 1500 Euros now 2500 Euros >> and cleaning Squeak VM for example cost several project cost. >> > > I think all of above is only a tiny glipse of ESUG good deeds towards > supporting smalltalk. > The main thing, i think, is hosting and organizing a conference, which > is great world-wide event for all smalltalkers. > >> Probably because people do not study at school history and are bad in statistics nowadays but prefer marketing :). >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> On Mar 9, 2010, at 10:57 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >>> On 9 March 2010 23:49, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> Dear Smalltalkers of all dialects! >>>> >>>> In a time where we are bombarded with information and may be misinformed :), >>>> some of you may not notice that ESUG is doing a great job pushing Smalltalk, we thought that it is good >>>> to get a gentle reminder on the main actions ESUG performed in the past. http://www.esug.org >>>> Yes we have been busy promoting the language we all love. :) >>>> >>>> The board. >>>> >>> >>> I hardly believe that there is anyone who thinks that ESUG is evil :) >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 10, 2010

[Pharo-project] MIT strikes back (was Re: [smalltalk-research] Re: [Esug-list] Google Summer Of Code 2010 news!!!)

by Paolo Bonzini

On 03/10/2010 05:06 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> What the starting point is will depend on to what extent Cog has >> been open sourced (Teleplace may choose to open source >> single-threaded Cog initially, keeping back the threaded FFI for >> a while, it may not open source Cog at all; we'll see :) ). > May be I the only one to notice the:) which I have problem to > understand since for me it announces that COG may not be > open-source. Isn't this what you wanted to allow companies to do, when you chose the MIT license? I don't understand, why should you care? I see some irony... Paolo

March 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Paint gradients rectangles on #onDraw: method

by nullPointer

>Not exactly sure what you mean by having switched the mechanism, but >have you tried using a GradientFillStyle as fill when drawing on canvas? Well, of that way the load of data in the widget is much more faster. Ignore if with old mechanism exists a some way for do that more fast, but the difference in velocity is huge. I will see GradientFillStyle. Thanks. -- View this message in context: http://n4.nabble.com/Paint-gradients-rectangles-on-onDraw-method-tp1587597p… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [smalltalk-research] Re: [Esug-list] Google Summer Of Code 2010 news!!!

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Eliot > What the starting point is will depend on to what extent Cog has been open sourced (Teleplace may choose to open source single-threaded Cog initially, keeping back the threaded FFI for a while, it may not open source Cog at all; we'll see :) ). May be I the only one to notice the :) which I have problem to understand since for me it announces that COG may not be open-source. What would help teleplace to believe that open-sourcing it would be a win-win situation? A bigger community of contributors ? Making sure that the truck factor does not touch them in case elliot is called under other horizons? Now there is a bootstrap problem. How can a community show that an open-source model is better than a closed one, if the software is closed? STef

March 10, 2010