March 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] MIT strikes back (was Re: [smalltalk-research] Re: [Esug-list] Google Summer Of Code 2010 news!!!)

by Igor Stasenko

On 12 March 2010 00:31, Chris Muller <asqueaker(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Well, I certainly care.. Â Stef wasn't remarking about license rights, > he said didn't understand the smiley face. Â Frankly, I don't either. > After years of teasing from Bryce and now this? Â What a crushing > disappointment. > > I think that Teleplace realizing that there is no reason to keep this technology private. Simply because there is nothing too much compelling comparing to other open-source implementations which already having open-sourced JITs. Instead, by giving it away, it would increase their own chances to success, because it will attract more developers, more professionals to Squeak & friends and rise it visibility. Oh.. unless Teleplace wants to use marketing strategy to hide the fact that their product is based on Squeak and implemented in smalltalk. I'm only hope that people won't ashame themselves with postings like this: http://www.opengl.org/news/comments/croquet_sdk_v10_opengl_api_based_open_s… a âlate-binding object-orientedâ programming language WTF?!?!?! > > On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Nicolas Cellier > <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> 2010/3/10 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>>> What the starting point is will depend on to what extent Cog has >>>>>> been open sourced Â (Teleplace may choose to open source >>>>>> single-threaded Cog initially, keeping back the threaded FFI for >>>>>> a while, it may not open source Cog at all; we'll see :) ). >>>>> May be I the only one to notice the:) Â which I have problem to >>>>> understand since for me it announces that COG may not be >>>>> open-source. >>>> >>>> Isn't this what you wanted to allow companies to do, when you chose the >>>> MIT license? Â I don't understand, why should you care? >> >> We Â shouldn't. Well, except if previous annoucements strongly >> suggested this would be the case... >> >>>> >>>> I see some irony... >>> Not me. Freedom of choice is a political attitude. I understand GPL goal but I >>> do not adhere to it. I respect people pushing it but not in my way. I'm not sure >>> that we should debate that here but we do not have the single answer. >>> >>> >> >> Not sure the goals differ much, but indeed these are two radically >> different strategies. >> The question is: would COG have ever started under a GPL derivative? >> Who knows? >> Since it did not happen, current choice is between an hypothetical >> something MIT or nothing... >> Bah, at least we already get a closure VM in Squeak. >> >> Nicolas >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] MIT strikes back (was Re: [smalltalk-research] Re: [Esug-list] Google Summer Of Code 2010 news!!!)

by Chris Muller

Well, I certainly care.. Stef wasn't remarking about license rights, he said didn't understand the smiley face. Frankly, I don't either. After years of teasing from Bryce and now this? What a crushing disappointment. On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2010/3/10 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> What the starting point is will depend on to what extent Cog has >>>>> been open sourced Â (Teleplace may choose to open source >>>>> single-threaded Cog initially, keeping back the threaded FFI for >>>>> a while, it may not open source Cog at all; we'll see :) ). >>>> May be I the only one to notice the:) Â which I have problem to >>>> understand since for me it announces that COG may not be >>>> open-source. >>> >>> Isn't this what you wanted to allow companies to do, when you chose the >>> MIT license? Â I don't understand, why should you care? > > We Â shouldn't. Well, except if previous annoucements strongly > suggested this would be the case... > >>> >>> I see some irony... >> Not me. Freedom of choice is a political attitude. I understand GPL goal but I >> do not adhere to it. I respect people pushing it but not in my way. I'm not sure >> that we should debate that here but we do not have the single answer. >> >> > > Not sure the goals differ much, but indeed these are two radically > different strategies. > The question is: would COG have ever started under a GPL derivative? > Who knows? > Since it did not happen, current choice is between an hypothetical > something MIT or nothing... > Bah, at least we already get a closure VM in Squeak. > > Nicolas > >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] networking problem (repost)

by Michael Roberts

but if i do this | if socket | if := NetNameResolver localHostAddress. socket := Socket newTCP. socket bindTo: if. socket listenWithBacklog: 50. socket isValid. then it does at least be a socket lsof says is listening. perhaps there is a case where the old socket code worked up to a point it broke. and then the assumption was one could just switch the flag to 'new', but no one has updated use of the API. with so much old and new code on the same classes i can see why one would assume it works.... I think for pharo 1.0 we really need a functioning ipv4 layer - however we do it. cheers, Mike

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] networking problem (repost)

by Michael Roberts

Hi John, thanks for volunteering! I have dug into the magma issue a bit more. it is difficult to say. i can describe my test case, and YMMV. (if you need more detail just ping me off list, i suspect your own investigation path would bear interesting fruit) -take latest rc 2 Pharo image -force use new network class var -force default on initialization to use new network -install OSProcess -install Magma -fix os process launching issue in magma code -stop magma changing OS x display resolution (annoying) -run magma test suite -<launches 4 images> so the first thing to check is that the os process launch does not have the side-effect of killing the network. i suspect not, there are so many hooks to reinit. i tried to force server creation to the local host address, if so the test failure reduces to this: | if socket | if := NetNameResolver localHostAddress. socket := Socket newTCP. socket listenOn: xxxxx backlogSize: 50 interface: if. socket isValid where if is an ipv6 structure. socket isValid returns false, so it is dead. However, if I look on the shell mike-mac:~ mike$ lsof -i4 | grep Squeak Squeak 9944 mike 9u IPv4 0x6a9f66c 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) Squeak 9944 mike 10u IPv4 0x6ab0a68 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) Squeak 9944 mike 11u IPv4 0x6a75a68 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) Squeak 9944 mike 12u IPv4 0x8e8a270 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) Squeak 9944 mike 13u IPv4 0x6a9ee64 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) Squeak 9944 mike 14u IPv4 0x6aa4a68 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) Squeak 9944 mike 15u IPv4 0x6a94a68 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) Squeak 9944 mike 16u IPv4 0x8e86e64 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) Squeak 9944 mike 17u IPv4 0x6a7966c 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) Squeak 9944 mike 18u IPv4 0x6539e64 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) Squeak 9944 mike 19u IPv4 0x919066c 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) Squeak 9944 mike 21u IPv4 0x9192a68 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) Squeak 9944 mike 22u IPv4 0x918866c 0t0 TCP *:* (CLOSED) mike-mac:~ mike$ lsof -i6 | grep Squeak mike-mac:~ mike$ so i have lots of dead ipv4 sockets, and no ipv6 ones... even though netname resolver returned an ip6 structure. i guess i don't know really how i expect it to work. maybe just using the wrong api... I also tried clamping the interface to a known ip address on my machine i.e if := NetNameResolver addressForName: '192.168.1.15'. but it does not work either. hope that debugging helps in any way. cheers, Mike

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [GSoC] Idea: Pharo/Squeak integration with git/mercurial.

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 8:42 PM, George Herolyants < george.herolyants(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2010/3/11 Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn(a)stonehenge.com>: > > I believe someone has already written Smalltalk code to parse > > the git object tree. I forget where I heard it, but I definitely > > went "cool!" in response. > > Yeah! I've just found it here > http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/142806 > . > So as I already mentioned the idea isn't new :) And some people did > real progress on the issue, while it was only in my "to look at" list > with possible transition to the "todo" list. :) > > Maybe I should ask the author of it? > Yes!!! moreover he can be co-mentor or something like that...Of course, if the project still have sense (I have no idea what is done in that project)

March 11, 2010

[Pharo-project] [update] #10512

by Marcus Denker

10512 ----- Issue 1850: Add MetacelloRepository to default repository list Issue 1967: Cleaning included Monticello repositories in PharoCore -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] LAST CHANCE Foreing Function Interface GSOC [WAS] Re: [smalltalk-research] Re: [Esug-list] Google Summer Of Code 2010 news!!!

by John M McIntosh

Ah, well I can also help eliot on this, sometimes he gets too busy... plus I want to ensure the objective-c binding happens. On 2010-03-11, at 11:26 AM, Gilad Bracha wrote: > Hi Mariano, > > I'm pretty sure you mean to list Eliot as the co-mentor or mentor on this one. If anyone got stuck and asked my help, I would end up bugging Eliot anyway. And he did agree. > > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Tomorrow morning we will be submitting...so, for this project, we only have this proposal: > > Work on a cross-dialect foreign function call interface and implement it in at least two dialects. Candidates include Alien and GNU Smalltalk's CObject (using existing implementation has the advantage of having to implement in only _one_ other dialect!). Bonus points for implementing a C parser that would be able to construct bindings. GNU Smalltalk already contains a C preprocessor implementation. > There is some support for parsing C headers in the Newspeak system. Aliens have been ported to Strongtalk as well as Squeak. > > The mentor will be John McIntosh and Gilad Brancha co-mentor. > > Can this proposal be more complete and have similar structure to the rest ? If true, send me the proposal. > > Check http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas.html > > Cheers > > Mariano > > -- > Cheers, Gilad -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [GSoC] Idea: Pharo/Squeak integration with git/mercurial.

by George Herolyants

2010/3/11 Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn(a)stonehenge.com>: > I believe someone has already written Smalltalk code to parse > the git object tree. I forget where I heard it, but I definitely > went "cool!" in response. Yeah! I've just found it here http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/142806. So as I already mentioned the idea isn't new :) And some people did real progress on the issue, while it was only in my "to look at" list with possible transition to the "todo" list. :) Maybe I should ask the author of it?

March 11, 2010

[Pharo-project] [update 1.1] #11258

by Marcus Denker

11258 ----- Issue 1481: remove class MethoProperties Issue 1850: Add MetacelloRepository to default repository list Issue 1967: Cleaning included Monticello repositories in PharoCore -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

March 11, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [GSoC] Idea: Pharo/Squeak integration with git/mercurial.

by merlyn＠stonehenge.com

>>>>> "George" == George Herolyants <george.herolyants(a)gmail.com> writes: George> Initial steps will be: George> * Examining git/mercurial and choose one of them considering George> simplicity of API and it's ease of use, supported operating systems on George> and other important factors. I believe someone has already written Smalltalk code to parse the git object tree. I forget where I heard it, but I definitely went "cool!" in response. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 <merlyn(a)stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/> Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

March 11, 2010