March 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN 1.0] RC3! #10515 pre-built core image

by Marcus Denker

On Mar 15, 2010, at 12:15 PM, Pavel Krivanek wrote: > Why there are two empty ChangeSets Unnamed and Unnamed1? > I should have run the cleanupForRelease two times... (or removed one). It's already better than in rc2 where there was one Unnamed changeset with *lots* of changes... I think we will just run cleanupForRelease again after harvesting the improvements related to tests that where posted. Marcus > -- Pavel > > On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >> >> https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/26668/PharoCore-1.0-10515rc3.zip >> >> >> This should be tested a lot... >> >> -- >> Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de >> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

March 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Seaside XUL [was: Virtual Desktops in Polymorph]

by Mariano Martinez Peck

You should have had that idea one week before ;) (GSoC) 2010/3/16 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > Just thinking. Maybe stupid. With SeasideXUL: > - we have a native portable UI > - several people can work on a same image at the same time > - work on a distant image easily > - reuse a lot of existing XUL components > - have these sort of things: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIvxXebd77E&feature=related > > > Laurent Laffont > > > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 12:45 PM, laurent laffont < > laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> A solution is SeasideXUL http://code.google.com/p/seasidexul/ as the >> windows are handled by your window manager. See >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkfSh4pAbdM >> >> But you lose a lot of tools and interactivity. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Laurent Laffont >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>wrote: >> >>> >Run second image? (joking) :) >>> >Run RFBServer on a shared image and everybody connects with a VNC client >>> ?? >>> >>> That's like: You can print out a copy of you screen and have the >>> printed paper beside your laptop ;) >>> >>> >>> Hey - maybe I was not clear enough: >>> When I currently work with Pharo I switch to full screen >>> it is like an OS to me with it's own window manager >>> (here Morphic/Polymorph). Unfortunately there is only >>> one World/Desktop/Screen with windows - but I want more >>> than one and an easy way to switch between them. >>> >>> So instead of >>> >>> Pharo image -> World with many windows >>> Pharo image -> #(World with many windows, World with many windows, >>> ...) >>> >>> >i'm building a new IDE for Pharo >>> >It is still in development, but i included the idea of workspaces >>> >>> The idea is not new - Eclipse has a workspace concept - but this >>> is running within one window (which is clonable in Eclipse by the way). >>> VisualWorks Refactoring Browser has something similar - with switchable >>> views within one browser. And yes, Bubbles is not bound to a single >>> window. >>> >>> But I'm talking about "switchable screens" (switchable >>> arrangements of windows and morphs) and not bound to the IDE. >>> >>> >>> Better said I would like to see something similar to Linux virtual >>> desktops or win32 utilities like >>> http://techblissonline.com/virtual-desktop-for-windows-dexpot/ >>> >>> >>> Bye >>> T. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! >>> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Virtual Desktops in Polymorph

by George Herolyants

2010/3/16 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: > But I'm talking about "switchable screens" (switchable > arrangements of windows and morphs) and not bound to the IDE. Yes. That would be cool. I think it even could be implemented as different native windows, each with it's own World, but all tied to the same environment. I guess it would be great to use with multiple displays. George

March 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Seaside XUL [was: Virtual Desktops in Polymorph]

by laurent laffont

Just thinking. Maybe stupid. With SeasideXUL: - we have a native portable UI - several people can work on a same image at the same time - work on a distant image easily - reuse a lot of existing XUL components - have these sort of things: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIvxXebd77E&feature=related Laurent Laffont On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 12:45 PM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com > wrote: > A solution is SeasideXUL http://code.google.com/p/seasidexul/ as the > windows are handled by your window manager. See > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkfSh4pAbdM > > But you lose a lot of tools and interactivity. > > Cheers, > > Laurent Laffont > > > > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > >> >Run second image? (joking) :) >> >Run RFBServer on a shared image and everybody connects with a VNC client >> ?? >> >> That's like: You can print out a copy of you screen and have the >> printed paper beside your laptop ;) >> >> >> Hey - maybe I was not clear enough: >> When I currently work with Pharo I switch to full screen >> it is like an OS to me with it's own window manager >> (here Morphic/Polymorph). Unfortunately there is only >> one World/Desktop/Screen with windows - but I want more >> than one and an easy way to switch between them. >> >> So instead of >> >> Pharo image -> World with many windows >> Pharo image -> #(World with many windows, World with many windows, ...) >> >> >i'm building a new IDE for Pharo >> >It is still in development, but i included the idea of workspaces >> >> The idea is not new - Eclipse has a workspace concept - but this >> is running within one window (which is clonable in Eclipse by the way). >> VisualWorks Refactoring Browser has something similar - with switchable >> views within one browser. And yes, Bubbles is not bound to a single >> window. >> >> But I'm talking about "switchable screens" (switchable >> arrangements of windows and morphs) and not bound to the IDE. >> >> >> Better said I would like to see something similar to Linux virtual >> desktops or win32 utilities like >> http://techblissonline.com/virtual-desktop-for-windows-dexpot/ >> >> >> Bye >> T. >> >> >> >> -- >> GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! >> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > >

March 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Introducing Myself / FFI comments

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Ok andreas other times and other communication problems. Let us try to improve on that and build a new relationship. Let us try to restart with a clean board and some nice piece of chalk and draw the future. In 2010 how can we make progress on that and move ahead. We are all ready to see progress on this front and avoid forking FFI for nothing. Stef > Folks - > > After long hesitation I've decided to subscribe to the Pharo list. I'm > doing this mostly to put perspective on some issues that have come up > here and where I feel I have a unique perspective on them. If you > haven't guessed, I've been called many unfriendly names here, most > recently "the FFI maintainer". > > Let's start there with putting some perspective on the issues. > Fortunately, all of this discussion has been archived so we don't need > to play "he said, she said" but I can just point you to the messages > themselves. Lukas claims: > > "In fact we had that in Squeak 3.9 and early Pharo versions. I even > wrote code that adapted this mechanism for FFI, but the FFI maintainer > insisted on sticking with his compiler hacks." > > What Lukas *isn't* mentioning is that his proposal would have rendered > all FFI code ever written nonfunctional and non-loadable. Practically > speaking, it would have simplified two methods with fifty lines of code > at the expense of making six years of work of many people unusable: > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-August/106992.h… > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-August/107037.h… > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-August/107039.h… > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-August/107204.h… > > Then of course, Stef threw in his usual good-natured self and changed > what had been a relatively issue-focused discussion into an > old-fashioned personal assault: > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-August/107124.h… > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-August/107134.h… > > Despite that I proposed what I felt might be a workable alternative, > which got shot down by Lukas in an instant: > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-August/107136.h… > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-August/107144.h… > > A third proposal was made, that I agreed with as will, Lukas ignored the > proposal completely: > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-August/107313.h… > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-August/107338.h… > > At the end of the discussion, Lukas still hadn't responded to various > compromises that I had offered to discuss with him: > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-August/107309.h… > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-August/107337.h… > > I've certainly had points in the past where some people here have every > right to be mad at me and where I've made gross mistakes. But this > wasn't one of those times. I've been fairly patient, took the discussion > into whichever direction Lukas wanted, made alternative proposals, > agreed with third party proposals, didn't even raise to the rhetoric > bait that was thrown at me multiple times. > > The *one* tradeoff I wasn't willing to make for the sake of my users was > to break their code; was to make their code non-loadable for absolutely > no benefit for these users. Cleaning up two methods and fifty lines of > code isn't worth breaking six years of work from lots of people. It > wasn't then, it isn't today. > > And when Stef says "Some people may now understand why we finally > decided to do Pharo." then you should probably wonder what that means in > the context of this discussion. Finding solutions that benefit *all* > parties involved isn't one of his primary strengths in my experience. > > Back to lurking for now, > - Andreas > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Virtual Desktops in Polymorph

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> > But I'm talking about "switchable screens" (switchable > arrangements of windows and morphs) and not bound to the IDE. > would be cool. I'm ready to try any solution that is working well :) and help to write faster code. Stef

March 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Code Freeze 1.1?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

+ 1 end of march for a code freeze would be great. Stef On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:19 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: > Hi, > > Now with 1.0 done, I think we should think about freezing 1.1. > > The main reason of course is that 1.1 is *far more pleasent* to use than 1.0. The other > thing is that 1.1 did change quite some things that have impact on external code (Preferences, > as an example). > > So I think we should > > -> start slowing down on 1.1 (Stef suggested that already) > -> start polishing (tests...) > -> start to look at the Dev image. > -> Official code freeze end of March. > -> Release if possible end of April (this of course depends on the state of things). > > > Any reasons against? > > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

March 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Virtual Desktops in Polymorph

by laurent laffont

A solution is SeasideXUL http://code.google.com/p/seasidexul/ as the windows are handled by your window manager. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkfSh4pAbdM But you lose a lot of tools and interactivity. Cheers, Laurent Laffont On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > >Run second image? (joking) :) > >Run RFBServer on a shared image and everybody connects with a VNC client > ?? > > That's like: You can print out a copy of you screen and have the > printed paper beside your laptop ;) > > > Hey - maybe I was not clear enough: > When I currently work with Pharo I switch to full screen > it is like an OS to me with it's own window manager > (here Morphic/Polymorph). Unfortunately there is only > one World/Desktop/Screen with windows - but I want more > than one and an easy way to switch between them. > > So instead of > > Pharo image -> World with many windows > Pharo image -> #(World with many windows, World with many windows, ...) > > >i'm building a new IDE for Pharo > >It is still in development, but i included the idea of workspaces > > The idea is not new - Eclipse has a workspace concept - but this > is running within one window (which is clonable in Eclipse by the way). > VisualWorks Refactoring Browser has something similar - with switchable > views within one browser. And yes, Bubbles is not bound to a single window. > > But I'm talking about "switchable screens" (switchable > arrangements of windows and morphs) and not bound to the IDE. > > > Better said I would like to see something similar to Linux virtual > desktops or win32 utilities like > http://techblissonline.com/virtual-desktop-for-windows-dexpot/ > > > Bye > T. > > > > -- > GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

March 16, 2010

[Pharo-project] Virtual Desktops in Polymorph

by Torsten Bergmann

>Run second image? (joking) :) >Run RFBServer on a shared image and everybody connects with a VNC client ?? That's like: You can print out a copy of you screen and have the printed paper beside your laptop ;) Hey - maybe I was not clear enough: When I currently work with Pharo I switch to full screen it is like an OS to me with it's own window manager (here Morphic/Polymorph). Unfortunately there is only one World/Desktop/Screen with windows - but I want more than one and an easy way to switch between them. So instead of Pharo image -> World with many windows Pharo image -> #(World with many windows, World with many windows, ...) >i'm building a new IDE for Pharo >It is still in development, but i included the idea of workspaces The idea is not new - Eclipse has a workspace concept - but this is running within one window (which is clonable in Eclipse by the way). VisualWorks Refactoring Browser has something similar - with switchable views within one browser. And yes, Bubbles is not bound to a single window. But I'm talking about "switchable screens" (switchable arrangements of windows and morphs) and not bound to the IDE. Better said I would like to see something similar to Linux virtual desktops or win32 utilities like http://techblissonline.com/virtual-desktop-for-windows-dexpot/ Bye T. -- GRATIS fÃ¼r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

March 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Code Freeze 1.1?

by Lukas Renggli

https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/26668/PharoCore-1.0-10515rc3.zip On 16 March 2010 11:53, Tudor Girba <tudor.girba(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I do not see it from the website. Where can I get it from? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > On 16 Mar 2010, at 10:42, Marcus Denker wrote: > >> >> On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:40 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Is 1.0 already released? >>> >> Not yet, but we hope that RC3 is the last... >> >> Â Â Â Â Marcus >> >> >> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> On 16 Mar 2010, at 10:19, Marcus Denker wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Now with 1.0 done, I think we should think about freezing 1.1. >>>> >>>> The main reason of course is that 1.1 is *far more pleasent* to use than >>>> 1.0. The other >>>> thing is that 1.1 did change quite some things that have impact on >>>> external code (Preferences, >>>> as an example). >>>> >>>> So I think we should >>>> >>>> Â Â Â Â -> start slowing down on 1.1 (Stef suggested that already) >>>> Â Â Â Â -> start polishing Â (tests...) >>>> Â Â Â Â -> start to look at the Dev image. >>>> Â Â Â Â -> Official code freeze end of March. >>>> Â Â Â Â -> Release if possible end of April (this of course depends on >>>> the state of things). >>>> >>>> >>>> Any reasons against? >>>> >>>> >>>> Â Â Â Â Marcus >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Marcus Denker Â -- http://www.marcusdenker.de >>>> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pharo-project mailing list >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Some battles are better lost than fought." >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "From an abstract enough point of view, any two things are similar." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> -- >> Marcus Denker Â -- http://www.marcusdenker.de >> INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "The coherence of a trip is given by the clearness of the goal." > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

March 16, 2010