February 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] DateAndTime and TimeStamp precision

by Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez

El mar, 16-02-2010 a las 18:26 +0100, Henrik Johansen escribiÃ³: > Den 16.02.2010 16:44, skrev Marcus Denker: > > On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez wrote: > > > > > >> El mar, 16-02-2010 a las 14:39 +0100, Luc Fabresse escribiÃ³: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I think it is related to: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=982 > >>> If I remember well, there is no primitive with nano second accuracy > >>> so it is impossible to have it in real. > >>> > >> Yes, and indeed nano second accuracy is overkill for my current problem. > >> I only want some given precision so that > >> > >> DateAndTime now < DateAndTime now > >> > >> is always true, so that can be used to order events (object creation in > >> this case) using the date. > >> > But it's not. DateAndTime now <= DateAndTime now. > If you are batching them together so close that resolution is an issue > why not rewrite it to something like: > > currTime:= DateAndTime now. > obj Count:= 0. > someLoop whileTrue: [ > newObj := aClass new time: currTime+ objCount; yourself. > currTime := currTime +1. > ] Thank you very much! I am doing something similar to this. > > Saves you quite a few system calls as well :) > > > > I think this was removed as part of speeding up date and time because it was slowing down everything. > > (long time ago) > > > > And people where thinking that this is actually not true: if you ask two times for a corse-grained > > time, you *can* get the same time twice if you ask faster than the base resolution. > > > > It would be interesting to know how other languages handle this. > > > > > > -- > > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > > I think the answer is as simple as you might suspect - they don't. > It doesn't really make sense to ensure now < now, so they leave it to > the developer to make sure that is the case if he really needs it. > > F.ex.: > VW uses a millisecond clock for its (default) Timestamps. It provides a > microsecondValue method as well, but no default Timestamp creation > method using it. > > Java provides currentTimeMillis() (walltime since Jan 1970, resolution > OS-dependent) > and nanoTime (since startup). > You can't really combine the two and get a Timestamp with nanosecond > precision that makes sense, so I'd say it does millisecond precision as > well. > > Cheers, > Henry > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Feb. 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] DateAndTime and TimeStamp precision

by Henrik Johansen

Den 16.02.2010 16:44, skrev Marcus Denker: > On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez wrote: > > >> El mar, 16-02-2010 a las 14:39 +0100, Luc Fabresse escribiÃ³: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I think it is related to: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=982 >>> If I remember well, there is no primitive with nano second accuracy >>> so it is impossible to have it in real. >>> >> Yes, and indeed nano second accuracy is overkill for my current problem. >> I only want some given precision so that >> >> DateAndTime now < DateAndTime now >> >> is always true, so that can be used to order events (object creation in >> this case) using the date. >> But it's not. DateAndTime now <= DateAndTime now. If you are batching them together so close that resolution is an issue why not rewrite it to something like: currTime:= DateAndTime now. obj Count:= 0. someLoop whileTrue: [ newObj := aClass new time: currTime+ objCount; yourself. currTime := currTime +1. ] Saves you quite a few system calls as well :) > I think this was removed as part of speeding up date and time because it was slowing down everything. > (long time ago) > > And people where thinking that this is actually not true: if you ask two times for a corse-grained > time, you *can* get the same time twice if you ask faster than the base resolution. > > It would be interesting to know how other languages handle this. > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > I think the answer is as simple as you might suspect - they don't. It doesn't really make sense to ensure now < now, so they leave it to the developer to make sure that is the case if he really needs it. F.ex.: VW uses a millisecond clock for its (default) Timestamps. It provides a microsecondValue method as well, but no default Timestamp creation method using it. Java provides currentTimeMillis() (walltime since Jan 1970, resolution OS-dependent) and nanoTime (since startup). You can't really combine the two and get a Timestamp with nanosecond precision that makes sense, so I'd say it does millisecond precision as well. Cheers, Henry

Feb. 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: ScriptLoader loadFFI doesn't work anymore

by Yanni Chiu

Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > Thank for the report. I have just commited a new version that fix > this and another couple of things. Can you tell me if it works ok > for you ? > > > Gofer new > squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; > load. > > ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfFFI) project version: '1.0') load. > > > Sorry, It is this: > > ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfFFI) project version: '1.2') load. It works fine. Thanks.

Feb. 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Monticello browser doesn't take into account a new package

by Lukas Renggli

Click on '+Package' in the Monticello browser to create a package. Creating a matching category only is not enough. Lukas 2010/2/16 Cyrille Delaunay <cy.delaunay(a)gmail.com>: > This is a Â Pharo1.0-10508-rc2dev10.01.2 image > > 2010/2/16 Cyrille Delaunay <cy.delaunay(a)gmail.com> >> >> Hi, >> I have try that with the last dev image on the pharo website: >> When I create a new package (right-click => add category on the default >> browser), this new package will not appear in the monticello browser. >> Therefore, you will not be able to save it in any squeaksource repository >> (?). >> The package will appear only after specific manipulations (for example, >> move a class from this new package to another one). >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Feb. 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] DateAndTime and TimeStamp precision

by Marcus Denker

On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez wrote: > El mar, 16-02-2010 a las 14:39 +0100, Luc Fabresse escribiÃ³: >> Hi, >> >> I think it is related to: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=982 >> If I remember well, there is no primitive with nano second accuracy >> so it is impossible to have it in real. > > Yes, and indeed nano second accuracy is overkill for my current problem. > I only want some given precision so that > > DateAndTime now < DateAndTime now > > is always true, so that can be used to order events (object creation in > this case) using the date. I think this was removed as part of speeding up date and time because it was slowing down everything. (long time ago) And people where thinking that this is actually not true: if you ask two times for a corse-grained time, you *can* get the same time twice if you ask faster than the base resolution. It would be interesting to know how other languages handle this. -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

Feb. 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Monticello browser doesn't take into account a new package

by Cyrille Delaunay

This is a Pharo1.0-10508-rc2dev10.01.2 image 2010/2/16 Cyrille Delaunay <cy.delaunay(a)gmail.com> > Hi, > > I have try that with the last dev image on the pharo website: > > When I create a new package (right-click => add category on the default > browser), this new package will not appear in the monticello browser. > Therefore, you will not be able to save it in any squeaksource repository > (?). > The package will appear only after specific manipulations (for example, > move a class from this new package to another one). > > > >

Feb. 16, 2010

[Pharo-project] Monticello browser doesn't take into account a new package

by Cyrille Delaunay

Hi, I have try that with the last dev image on the pharo website: When I create a new package (right-click => add category on the default browser), this new package will not appear in the monticello browser. Therefore, you will not be able to save it in any squeaksource repository (?). The package will appear only after specific manipulations (for example, move a class from this new package to another one).

Feb. 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] DateAndTime and TimeStamp precision

by Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez

El mar, 16-02-2010 a las 14:39 +0100, Luc Fabresse escribiÃ³: > Hi, > > I think it is related to: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=982 > If I remember well, there is no primitive with nano second accuracy > so it is impossible to have it in real. Yes, and indeed nano second accuracy is overkill for my current problem. I only want some given precision so that DateAndTime now < DateAndTime now is always true, so that can be used to order events (object creation in this case) using the date. Thanks > > Luc > > Le 13 fÃ©vr. 10 Ã 10:46, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > > > Hi miguel > > > > what is the solution? > > I remember that I saw passing some code to support nanos > > but I'm not sure that it was integrated. > > Now let us fix it if possible. > > > > Stef > > > > On Feb 13, 2010, at 1:32 AM, Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez wrote: > > > >> El vie, 12-02-2010 a las 14:58 -0800, John M McIntosh escribiÃ³: > >>> With the Mac VM 5.4b1 I have a microsecond clock. > >>> http://n4.nabble.com/microsecond-timing-for-GC-work-td1016253.html > >>> > >>> zero feedback, maybe it's too fast and you never get above 1 > >>> millisecond in testing eh? > >> > >> > >> Thanks that indeed shown a difference in my machine. > >> > >> But, then other question, why the default implementation of > >> DateAndTime > >> now and TimeStamp now isn't smaller than a second. > >> By sending now I get a DateAndTime object but by sending > >> millesecondClockValue a get a SmallInteger representing the number of > >> milliseconds. > >> > >> But there isn't in the class side of both classes and neither in Time > >> class a method to build a DateAndTime, a TimeStamp or a Time from > >> milliseconds. So to convert this value to a date again I will have to > >> trunk the time to a second resolution. Is this analysis correct? > >> > >> Of course I could index my objects in the list with the millis number > >> but I would be happier if I could index them with a real date object. > >> > >> Anyway, not that that is a show stopper, is just that when creating > >> objects I'm assigning a creation date and I would like to find what > >> objects are older that others created at about the same lapse, > >> without > >> resorting to use their position in an external data structure (i.e. > >> the > >> OrderedCollection, an array or the line number in a file). > >> > >> Thanks to everyone for the answers. > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 2010-02-12, at 12:46 PM, csrabak(a)bol.com.br wrote: > >>> > >>>> Miguel, > >>>> > >>>> Pharo allows you to drill down to millisecond resolution, but for > >>>> your 'benchmark' that's still too coarse: > >>>> > >>>> {DateAndTime. TimeStamp } collect: [ :class | > >>>> | list | > >>>> list := OrderedCollection new. > >>>> 1 to: 1000 do: [ :each | > >>>> value := class millisecondClockValue. > >>>> list add: value ]. > >>>> list last - list first ]. > >>>> > >>>> I get an Array (1 1). > >>>> > >>>> Changing from 1000 to 100000 (hundred fold) I got #(77 141). > >>>> > >>>> HTH > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Cesar Rabak > >>>> > >>>> Em 12/02/2010 17:02, Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez < miguel.coba(a)gmail.com > >>>> > escreveu: > >>>> I am noticing that both > >>>> > >>>> DateAndTime now > >>>> TimeStamp now > >>>> > >>>> have a precision of seconds, that is, the nanos is always 0. > >>>> > >>>> I am doing a bulk data creation and inserting them in a list with a > >>>> timestamp for each insertion but this isn't working because several > >>>> entries have the very same DateAndTime or Timestamp. > >>>> > >>>> For example: > >>>> > >>>> {DateAndTime. TimeStamp } collect: [ :class | > >>>> | list | > >>>> list := OrderedCollection new. > >>>> 1 to: 1000 do: [ :each | > >>>> value := class now. > >>>> list add: value ]. > >>>> list last - list first ] > >>>> > >>>> gives an Array(0:00:00:00 0:00:00:00) > >>>> > >>>> How can achieve smaller than a second timestamping in Pharo? > >>>> -- > >>>> Miguel CobÃ¡ > >>>> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >>> > >>> -- > >>> = > >>> = > >>> = > >>> = > >>> = > >>> = > >>> = > >>> ==================================================================== > >>> John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: > >>> squeaker68882 > >>> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com > >>> = > >>> = > >>> = > >>> = > >>> = > >>> = > >>> = > >>> ==================================================================== > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >> > >> -- > >> Miguel CobÃ¡ > >> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pharo-project mailing list > >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Feb. 16, 2010

[Pharo-project] About our process

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi guys another of this email pending in my mailbox to get out. I'm not sure that our integration process is the good one. We built it by trial and error and it may give the impression that we are not open which is not the case. We really want to have discussion of items in the list and that integration is just the boring job of making it happening. Now we are probably trapped in the fact that ScriptLoader works. But we are ready to change for something better. Ideally we would like to use Metacello to manage Pharo. If you want to learn how we do it you can read the class comment of ScriptLoader. We have no problem to let people integrate fix or change having access. What I learned is that this is boring to do and I always like to have somebody else looking at my code. So for example we do the same with marcus, I have a look at his fixes. So let us know. Stef

Feb. 16, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Using software engineering practices and tools

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I would have preferred to send code with it too. But at least this is a vision :) On Feb 16, 2010, at 3:09 PM, Adrian Lienhard wrote: > nice list! > Adrian > > On Feb 16, 2010, at 14:16 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >> Hi guys >> >> I had this draft in my drafts for some weeks now and I would like to share that with you. >> >> I'm really convinced that we could do a better job to build better tools and process to bring our software to the next level. I would like to have share with you some thoughts and analysis and also request for ideas and code of course :) >> >> - Bug tracking we are doing that but can we dream >> - would be nice to have the stack/image and that we could get back in the bug >> - scripting code.google.com would be nice too >> - to publish code >> - to manipulate script bug entries (any taker of that) >> >> - Integration server: we are getting there and I thank all the hudson experimentations. >> - we should get more of that. >> >> - Package Management: Metacello >> - I would like to have Pharo1.0 certified metacello configs. >> the ideas is that people can publish in a repositories the configs that they know are working >> for 1.0, then in another for 1.1.... >> -> once we have configurations + integration server we should burn servers running and testing >> -> what/how do we manage results >> >> - I would like to manage pharo (core + maintained packages with metacello) as well as pharo-dev >> >> >> - Profiling >> We got MessageTally (BTW in Squeak 3.xx all the code was in... SystemDictionary) cleaned >> Now it would be good to have better way to profile applications >> something like .... :) http://www.bootchart.org/images/bootchart.png >> >> - Documentation >> I hope to get some students to produce a way to script UMLish class diagrams that could be displayed >> at the level of a package. >> >> Package level doc >> Package class comments overview browser. >> I think that this is really important to get nice comments, nice instance variables, >> nice temporary variables. Now we should find a way to make sure that >> comments are well in sight. Any idea / code? >> >> >> - SmallLint >> Better UI and process using SmallLint >> Would be nice to have a sanity package checking process. Will probably come one of these days >> >> - Better Unit Test support >> We should look at Adrian fixes and enhancements >> Better reporting of tests >> >> - Better merging tools >> Seeing the impact of a delta between two versions on the image for example >> on that topic From VW mailing-list >> "1. Please make the engine highly configurable and disjoint from the UI. >> 2. Please make the UI itself pluggable, extensible, augmentable, etc. >> 3. To support automated merges, please allow rules for handling unresolved conflicts." >> >> >> I'm sure that there is more. We should get to the next level ;) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 16, 2010