February 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Polymorph: Window with title

by Torsten Bergmann

> bah, *far* to slow ;-) I'm getting old! 8) Bye T. -- Sicherer, schneller und einfacher. Die aktuellen Internet-Browser - jetzt kostenlos herunterladen! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/chbrowser

Feb. 18, 2010

[Pharo-project] Keyboard events issue on Mac VM

by Pavel Krivanek

Hi, The Mac OS virtual machine has wrong processing of keyUp and keyDown events. It discards event character value. This events are very rarely used (keyStroke is preferred) so there`s no surprise that it was not reported before. See http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1995 Cheers, -- Pavel

Feb. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: "Real" packages.

by Dale Henrichs

Gemstone uses an order list of dictionaries for global lookup. Each user can change the order of the list or insert their own dictionaries into the list ... makes for quite a bit of flexibility.... you can load code into a particular dictionary...and the global resolution is at compile time (you can do lookup at runtime if you wish). The advantage is that the code itself has no namespace artifacts at all. I'm mentioning this as a point of information more than a serious suggestion that Pharo adopt such an approach, though:) Dale ----- "Wilhelm K Schwab" <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: | Sorry, I can't resist exploiting the typo: the would be "grate" (vs. | great) for me too. I also suspect that name spaces would turn into a | horrible mess in short order. | | I could learn to live with messages as class names, something like | | Smalltalk goGators Dictionary etc. | | so that the "name space" is really an object accessed by a selector | (#goGators above) and Dictionary then is a message to same. I got the | idea from Dolphin. AFAIK, it has not gone terribly far, but my sense | is that it does what one really needs from name spaces without | inviting the slippery slope into Java packages. | | Bill | | | -----Original Message----- | From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | [mailto:pharo-project-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of | Esteban Lorenzano | Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:40 PM | To: pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] {Spam?} Re: "Real" packages. | | Well... I disagree with you, Mariano. If you allow packages, suddenly | you will have things like: | | com.pirulo.Date, | ar.com.pirulin.Date | | and a lot of classes who, in fact, should be just Date | | (and that's just an example) | | Cheers, | Esteban | | On 2009-02-11 12:13:07 -0300, Mariano Martinez Peck | <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> said: | | > | > | > I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class | > DBXConnection instead of Connection. I think namespaces are very | > useful. Something like Java packages or similar would be grate for | me. | > | > Cheers, | > | > Mariano | > | > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Travis Kay <tlk(a)nb.sympatico.ca> | > wrote: | > | >> Bill Schwab wrote: | >>> Stef, | >>> | >>> Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; I'll | | >>> speak | >> for myself on that but suspect others would agree. | >> I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree. | >> | >> Travis | >> | >>> Packages are of course extremely useful. Method categories are | also | >> quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be assigned | | >> to a given method. Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by | >> rules) with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as | part of packages). | >>> | >>> I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of | it. | >>> | >>> Bill | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. | >>> University of Florida | >>> Department of Anesthesiology | >>> PO Box 100254 | >>> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 | >>> | >>> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu | >>> Tel: (352) 273-6785 | >>> FAX: (352) 392-7029 | >>> | >>> | >>> | >>>>>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>> | >>>>>> | >>> Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both | kind | >>> of packages could coexist and we should probably revive it for | 1.1 | >>> | >>> Stef | >>> On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote: | >>> | >>> | >>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David R=F6thlisberger | >>>> <squeak@webcita= | > s.ch | >>>> | >>>>> wrote: | >>>>> | >>>> So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class entities, OB | >>>> would be much faster and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB | models | >>>> packages and class cats itself, has to take the information from | | >>>> both the Monticello's working copy managers and the | >>>> SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what can we | do. | >>>> We should really invest in bringing real packages to Pharo. | >>>> | >>>> | >>>> If you want "real" packages, I've implemented them in Squeak: | >>>> | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages | >>>> | >>>> The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak image | is | >>>> linked from here: | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak | >>>> | >>>> I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and is | released | >>>> under the MIT license if anybody else wants it. | >>>> | >>>> Gulik. | >>>> | >>>> -- | >>>> http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg | >>>> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/ | >>>> _______________________________________________ | >>>> Pharo-project mailing list | >>>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>>> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >>>> | >>> | >>> | >>> _______________________________________________ | >>> Pharo-project mailing list | >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >>> | >>> | >>> _______________________________________________ | >>> Pharo-project mailing list | >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | >>> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >>> | -----------------------------------------------------------------------= | > - | >>> | >>> | >>> No virus found in this incoming message. | >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com | >>> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release Date: | >> 02/10/09 07:20:00 | >>> | >>> | >> | >> | >> _______________________________________________ | >> Pharo-project mailing list | >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | >> | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | >> | > | > | > I hate not having a real namespace. I hate to call my class | DBXConnection i= | > nstead of Connection. I think namespaces are very useful. Something | like Ja= | > va packages or similar would be grate for me. | Cheers, Marian= | > o | > <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:09 PM, | Travis Kay = | > <<a | > | href=3D"mailto:tlk@nb.sympatico.ca">tlk-F7KtY6MJiVI/4Up/o1S3Qw(a)public.gmane.org= | co.ca</a>> | > | > wrote: <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"b= | > order-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; | paddin= | > g-left: 1ex;"> | > <div class=3D"Ih2E3d">Bill Schwab wrote: | > > Stef, | > > | > > Re Dolphin, class categories have long been of marginal use; | I'll = | > speak for myself on that but suspect others would agree. | > </div>I am a Dolphin Pro, Squeak and Pharo users, I agree. | > | > Travis | > <div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"> | > > Packages are of course extremely useful.  Method | categories are a= | > lso quite useful, and Dolphin allows multiple categories to be | assigned to = | > a given method.  Dolphin mixes virtual categories (computed by | rules) = | > with static ones maintained by the user (and serialized as part of | packages= | > ). | > | > > | > > I can easily see where OB would get quite a speed boost out of | it. | > > | > > Bill | > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. | > > University of Florida | > > Department of Anesthesiology | > > PO Box 100254 | > > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 | > > | > > Email: <a | > href=3D"mailto:bschwab@anest.ufl.edu">bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu<= | /a> | > | > | > Tel: (352) 273-6785 | > > FAX: (352) 392-7029 | > > | > > | > > | > >>>> <a | > href=3D"mailto:stephane.ducasse@inria.fr">stephane.duca= | sse(a)inria.fr</a> | > | > 2/10/2009 4:41:10 PM >>> | > >>>> | > > Alexandre implemented long time ago an hybrid model where both | kind of= | > | > > packages could coexist | > > and we should probably revive it for 1.1 | > > | > > Stef | > > On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Michael van der Gulik wrote: | > > | > > | > >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David R=F6thlisberger | <squeak@= | > webcitas.ch | > >> | > >>> wrote: | > >>> | > >> So if we had real packages in Pharo as first class | entities, OB<br= | >> | > >> would be much faster | > >> and simpler to maintain. Right now, OB models packages and | class<b= | > r> | > >> cats itself, has to | > >> take the information from both the Monticello's working | copy<b= | > r> | > >> managers and the | > >> SystemOrganizer. This is a mess and a huge pain, but what | can we d= | > o. | > >> We should really invest in bringing real packages to | Pharo. | > >> | > >> | > >> If you want "real" packages, I've implemented | them i= | > n Squeak: | > >> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces" | target=3D"_blank">h= | > ttp://gulik.pbwiki.com/Namespaces</a> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages" | target=3D"_blank">htt= | > p://gulik.pbwiki.com/Packages</a> | > >> | > >> The places the code is held, including a video and a Squeak | image = | > is | > >> linked from here: | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak" | target=3D"_blank"= | >> http://gulik.pbwiki.com/SecureSqueak</a> | > >> | > >> I'm not interested in Pharo, but the code is there and | is rele= | > ased | > >> under the MIT license if anybody else wants it. | > >> | > >> Gulik. | > >> | > >> -- | > >> <a | href=3D"http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg" targ= | > | et=3D"_blank">http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg</a> | > >> <a href=3D"http://gulik.pbwiki.com/" | target=3D"_blank">http://guli= | > k.pbwiki.com/</a> | > >> _______________________________________________ | > >> Pharo-project mailing list | > >> <a | > href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-proje= | ct(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr</a> | >> | > | > <a href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p= | > haro-project" | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailma= | > n/listinfo/pharo-project</a> | > >> | > > | > > | > > _______________________________________________ | > > Pharo-project mailing list | > > <a | > | href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@l= | ists.gforge.inria.fr</a> | > | > | > <a | href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo= | > -project" | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/li= | > stinfo/pharo-project</a> | > > | > > | > > _______________________________________________ | > > Pharo-project mailing list | > > <a | > | href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@l= | ists.gforge.inria.fr</a> | > | > | > <a | href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo= | > -project" | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/li= | > stinfo/pharo-project</a> | > </div></div>> | ----------------------------------------------------------= | > -------------- | > > | > > | > > No virus found in this incoming message. | > > Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com" | target=3D"_blank">www.= | > avg.com</a> | > > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release | Date: 02/1= | > 0/09 07:20:00 | > <div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c">> | > > | > | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Pharo-project mailing list | > <a | > | href=3D"mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project(a)lists.= | gforge.inria.fr</a> | <a | > | > | href=3D"http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-proj= | > ect" | target=3D"_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinf= | > o/pharo-project</a> | > </div></div></blockquote></div> | > | > | > | > | > _______________________________________________ | > Pharo-project mailing list | > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | | | | | _______________________________________________ | Pharo-project mailing list | Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project | | _______________________________________________ | Pharo-project mailing list | Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Re: ScriptLoader loadFFI doesn't work anymore

by Dale Henrichs

----- "Yanni Chiu" <yanni(a)rogers.com> wrote: | Dale Henrichs wrote: | > ----- "Yanni Chiu" <yanni(a)rogers.com> wrote: | > | > | BTW, since all FFI-Examples packages were removed from the FFI | > | repository, even Metacello "versions" would fail because the | package | > | is | > | no longer there. | > | > This underscores Lukas' argument that you need to create your own | repository of packages that you use. | | I don't understand how this jives with Metacello. If I depend on a | Metacello configuration then I inherit the repository dependencies of | | that configuration -- unless I maintain my own copy of the | configuration | and the packages it references. This was a comment about keeping Pharo-level repositories, rather than individual repositories. In theory the Metacello configuration is created by the maintainers of the project, so in theory the maintainers won't remove packages that are needed for development and won't remove packages for which they've published a version. In practice, the FFI configuration is maintained by Pharo and the code in question is being managed by Squeak (and the Squeak folks aren't using Metacello). If Pharo has it's own repository for things like FFI, etc. then the problem of disappearing packages shouldn't happen. | | > As far as I am concerned, it is a cardinal sin to remove packages | from a public repository ... | | I agree. I assume the reason for removing the package was to eliminate | confusion caused when the latest version of the package is loaded, but | doesn't work, because none of the code should be there. Another | approach might have been to delete all the classes/methods from the package,and | submit it as the latest version. Though I'm not sure Monticello would | accept an "empty" package. There's no question that the folks managing that repository had a good reason for doing what they did, but if a developer happened to have branched FFI-Examples, she'd be SOL, unless she copied the packages in self defense...which is Lukas' point. If you are going to depend upon a set of packages in a repository, then you are at the mercy of the maintainers of the repository as far as uptime as well as contents. | | > We'll have to mark the earlier versions of FFI as broken in the | Metacello config unless we can recover the older files... | | I probably can find an old version in a package-cache, but the | repository for FFI is on http://source.squeakfoundation.org, which | seems | to be the active code base for Squeak (correct me if I'm wrong). I assume that FFI is actually being maintained in separate (private) repository and the public repository (where we've been grabbing FFI) is simply a staging area for publishing the latest version of the code... Dale

Feb. 18, 2010

[Pharo-project] Cross post: Squeak Oversight Board Election 2010 started!

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

Hi Smalltalking friends! I just wanted to alert some Smalltalk communities about the yearly Election in the Squeak community that was just kickstarted: http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-February/144641… ...and as that post said, all current info here: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6150 regards, GÃ¶ran Krampe (Election leader)

Feb. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Polymorph: Window with title

by Marcus Denker

On Feb 18, 2010, at 8:29 PM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > Gary wrote: >> I suggest rewriting #labelled: > > OK, I've created an issue > > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1994 bah, *far* to slow ;-) http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1989 -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

Feb. 18, 2010

[Pharo-project] Polymorph: Window with title

by Torsten Bergmann

Gary wrote: >I suggest rewriting #labelled: OK, I've created an issue http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1994 Thx T. -- NEU: Mit GMX DSL Ã¼ber 1000,- Â¿ sparen! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02

Feb. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo User Group?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Feb 18, 2010, at 5:11 PM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > Stef, > > Few weeks ago you said you will meet some layers at inria to know > whether something like ESUG may be set for Pharo. Do you have any news? Yes we discussed. I'm sure that they understood what we would like to build and they sent us a report and we should read it :) They suggested for example to be hosted by the OW2 consortium but I did not have the time to look at that. Else what we may end up doing is to create a french loi association (which is understood in Europe) to manage it. Stef > > I am just curious. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 18, 2010

[Pharo-project] Portugese translation :)

by stephane ducasse

Hi guys A portuguese speaking person (Christian GuimarÃ£es) asks if it was possible to translated pharo by example. We will host the translations (as we are doing for the french, spanish ones) and give access to bern infrastructure. Now may be some other people want to join in this effort. Stef >> Hi Dr. Andrew >> >> First of all, congratulation for the excelent work with Pharo and the book "Pharo By Example". >> >> My name is Christian Guimaraes, I'm an electrical engineer with strong background in software development. Nowadays I work as consultant for Fujitsu (in Europe) and in many other projects. >> >> I've started my studies in Smalltalk, for my pleasure and I've interested in translate the book "Pharo By Example" to the portuguese (I'm brazilian). I saw that already have some thing in this sense. Who is the responsible? Maybe I could help him. >> >> Thanks. >> >> - Christian

Feb. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] databases

by Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez

El jue, 18-02-2010 a las 16:51 +0100, Levente Uzonyi escribiÃ³: > On Wed, 17 Feb 2010, laurent laffont wrote: > > > Really great informations : > > ScenarioËËs > > > > In different situations, there are different storage needs > > > > 1. You are writing a small demonstration program to show your customers, > > and want to populate the system with some representative data. Add a class > > instance variable to store the instances, and simply save the image. > > 2. You have a small system with a few hundred/thousand objects, and are > > not dependent on external systems. A prevayler-like system like SandstoneDB > > might be a perfect fit. Each object save means a disk access, so scaling > > ends with disk speed. A few old versions of the data are kept around, so > > backing up or reverting is easy. If you want a readable representation, SIXX > > might help. > > 3. You have a legacy (relational) database, with extensive reporting > > written for it. Use an ORM. > > Relational databases are not legacy, they have features which "modern" > key-value stores don't (and won't). I don't think he is refering to RDBMS as legacy, as we know that they aren't. I think that he meant that when you have a fully populated database (legacy) and you are building a new seaside/pharo application to exploit that data, the best is to use an ORM for simple querys and direct querys for complex ones. > ORMs may ease the programmer's work, > but they tend to have bad runtime performance and can't use (all) the > features of todays RDBMSs. That is true but also the right thing, it isn't expected that an ORM standardize a way to backup a database, partition a table, replication, node management, user sessions and transaction monitoring, change index types and in general everything that is considered metadata or simply database administration. An ORM is for user stuff querys, insertions, deletion, etc. Cheers > > > Levente > > > 4. You have a complex and large object model that has to support changing > > the object model while developing. The solution is an OODB. Gemstone is the > > large and proven commercial offering. It has a free version for smaller > > databases (4GB data, 1 core, 1G ram), and has proven scalability to 500 > > machines. Magma is an open source OODB, seeing active development and > > growing more and more advanced functionality. > > > > > > > > Laurent Laffont > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 3:07 PM, laurent laffont > > <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>wrote: > > > >> No :) Thanks for the link ! > >> > >> Laurent Laffont > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl>wrote: > >> > >>> Hello Laurent, > >>> > >>> I assume you are aware of: > >>> > >>> http://www.seaside.st/documentation/persistence > >>> > >>> Stephan > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Pharo-project mailing list > >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > >>> > >> > >> > > > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Feb. 18, 2010