February 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Metacello --- How to make sure that we will be able to load... in 3 years from now

by stephane ducasse

Hi all I would like that we have a discussion about how do we put in place an infrastructure to make sure that we can get metacello configuration working in 3/5 years from now. I think that there are two scenarios: MyProject ====== in my project I used metacello and I publish a config and if it breaks in the future this is my responsibility PublishedMyProjectIn ============= When I publish my project (for now I copy the configuration file from my repository to the one of metacello) in the metacelloPharo1.0 project, we could automatically pulled up all the necessary files and copy them in the 1.0 repository. This way we can shield and make sure that a project can be loaded. I would like to have MetacelloMetaRepository1.0 MetacelloMetaRepository1.1 MetacelloMetaRepository1.2 ... what do you think? Stef

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Trying to build alien plugin in linux

by Torsten Bergmann

Havent followed this thread and currently lacking some time. The VMMaker config is changeable, so go ahead. Take care that it also works in latest Squeak trunk. Since most VM maintainers use Squeak to build the VM this is essential to follow their progress. Would also be a great move if Alien would be available on Windows - this would open the door to interfacing with Win technologies like COM or .NET (and therefore wake more commercial interest in Pharo). Having Alien on major OS platforms would also allow to use Smalltalk<-> Java bridging technologies like JavaConnect/JNIPort, Bye T. -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:08:55 +0100 > Von: Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > An: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > CC: Arnaud Jean-Baptiste <jbaptiste.arnaud(a)gmail.com>, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> > Betreff: Re: [Pharo-project] Trying to build alien plugin in linux > Torsten and JB: it would be cool to create a new metacello configuration > version with this new version of VMMaker, puting the fix about the > baseHeaderSize and integrating JB fixes to VMMaker. > > Cheers > > Mariano > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Fernando olivero > <oliverof(a)lu.unisi.ch>wrote: > > > > > On Feb 23, 2010, at 4:19 AM, John M McIntosh wrote: > > > > > > > > On 2010-02-22, at 6:48 PM, Javier PimÃ¡s wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Lastly, as I said when I loaded Alien Core the first time, I got this > > error while loading it: > > >> > > >> Alien class>>#ensureInSpecialObjectsArray: "Index probably wrong". > > >> > > >> What should I do about that? ignore it? > > > > > > Well it seems to be related to > > > > > > ((Smalltalk includesKey: #ObjectMemory) > > > and: [((Smalltalk at: #ObjectMemory) classPool at: #ClassAlien > > ifAbsent: []) ~~ (index - 1)]) ifTrue: > > > [self error: 'index probably wrong']. > > > > > > Usually people don't have ObjectMemory loaded in their image, and I"m > not > > sure what it is check for. > > > Why don't you try it in a regular Pharo image versus your VMMaker > image. > > > > Great work Jorge! Nice to know you won the battle against VMMaker! > > > > The ensure in special objects array error, has to do with some missing > > classes as John pointed out. > > > > The smalltalk special objects array has hardcoded indexes for some > relevant > > classes ( Globals) in the system. > > In the alien configuration i've just ensured that the size should be 53, > > before loading Alien, because the Alien code installs itself in that > array > > at positions 54 and 55. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > -- NEU: Mit GMX DSL Ã¼ber 1000,- Â¿ sparen! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] how to remove World?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

I think that maybe it is a good idea to use the DummyUIManager and the MorphicUIManager from Pavel MinimalImage. We can put those classes in a repository called PharoMinimal or something similar. Then, you will be able to load both classes, run your image headless and before, evaluate something to set those classes as the current. Just an idea... On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:18 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > this is a really good experiment > please continue > and let us know the results. > Stef > On Feb 22, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > > I tried by starting pharo with a script: > > > > Project uiProcess suspend. > > Smalltalk > > snapshot: true > > andQuit: true. > > > > ...and the processing stop working after the #suspend (no > > snapshot:andQuit: happens :( ) > > > > On 2010-02-22 13:43:05 -0300, Lukas Renggli > > <renggli(a)gmail.com> said: > > > >>> Is that also necessary for a headless Pharo/Squeak? > >> > >> No, it is not necessary. It saves a few CPU cycles because the event > >> polling stops, the #step methods on the visible morphs are not called > >> anymore, and the display is not updated any longer. > >> > >> Programmatically you can still do everything (headless or > >> non-headless). For example you can open morphs and move them around, > >> you just won't see a change on the screen. Code that have some > >> interaction with the GUI thread (like the debugger) might deadlock (or > >> hang) the system. > >> > >> Lukas > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Why a package management system

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

You are probably right. I should not read squeak-dev anymore I spent my time trying to show that there is NO contradiction between innovation/fun and good and clean system. But I'm not fun enough or smart enough. Stef (a etoy haters that was so stupid that he translated the book of etoy in french, an idiot that wrote most of the squeak books available right now, one of the four amigos that created the squeak foundation, a guy that did this stupid squeak 3.9 - you know stef this guy without any vision that just wants a "commercial smalltalk" puck! No innovation just plain engineering ....) On Feb 23, 2010, at 10:30 AM, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: > Hi! > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:27 AM, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: >> >>> StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>> So you are educating them.... >>>> Frankly I stopped trying long time ago. >>> Hey Stef, no need to be so sarcastic you know - several of us are in >>> fact in BOTH communities. IMHO we all need to remember that. >> >> Do you think that I do not know it? > [SNIP of lots of things you did in Squeak, no argument about that] > >> and in general **each** time this was a fight so I can say that I'm fed up arguing. > > I am fully aware of the history here, as you know, but I still ask all > involved (on BOTH sides) to try to remember that our two communities > overlap substantially. And personally I think your characterization of > the Squeak community is a tad black & white. ;) > > I also know you quite well Steph, after all these years, so I hardly > even react when you use harsh words :) - still, lots of other people are > new in our communities. > > I think it would be much more ... "becoming" (and fruitful) if we all > could stop "trash talking" each other - especially those of us who play > a "larger role". > > Just my 2 cents, would be interesting to hear views of other Pharaos on > this subject. > > regards, GÃ¶ran > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Why a package management system

by Mariano Martinez Peck

2010/2/22 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> > FYI, see > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-February/144820… > > > Incredible. Your answer are always very valuable. Little comment. You said: "He creates a class "ConfigurationOfMyDatabaseDriver" since he learned that Metacello uses a simple class with methods to describe the load order and version of the packages that fit together." Maybe I am wrong, but I think that you SHOULDN'T be aware of the order. I mean, you should be able to write all the spec package: in ANY order and that should still work perfectly. The order is not defined by the order of the spec package: but using the required. Of course, maybe there are exceptions, but most of the time, the order should be determined by the dependencies (requires:) and not by the natural order of the invocations to spec package: Thanks again for this wonderful answer. I will incorporate most of that in the Metacello chapter. Can I ? Cheers Mariano -- > Sicherer, schneller und einfacher. Die aktuellen Internet-Browser - > jetzt kostenlos herunterladen! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/chbrowser > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Monticello repos when adding packages

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks we will intergate that http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2045 Stef On Feb 22, 2010, at 11:43 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > or add the attached which add a 'add to package...' to a selected package > > > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 4:17 AM, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > Create your package, deselect any package. > Pick your existing repository spec. > Choose "add to package..." from the repo popup menu. > > Regards, Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "GermÃ¡n Arduino" <garduino(a)gmail.com> > To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 12:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Monticello repos when adding packages > > > 2010/2/21 Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de>: > > Hi, > > > > in Monticello: > > > > - when you open the browser you see a list of known > > repositories > > - when I select "+Package" and enter the name > > of a new package the right pane only shows > > the package-cache as valid repo and I have > > to add the repository using "+Repository" > > again - even when it is already known to the system > > > > Yes, is an annoying "feature". I don't know if exist another way, > but indeed, is not a good behaviour. > > > > Confusing, isnt it? Or is there an easier way? > > > > Thx > > T. > > > > Cheers. > GermÃ¡n. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > <MCWorkingCopyBrowser-addRepositoryToPackage.st><MCWorkingCopyBrowser-repositoryListMenu.st>_______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] web package documentation

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I really like the idea! Continue pushing. Stef On Feb 22, 2010, at 9:23 PM, laurent laffont wrote: > Hi, > > I've worked on SimpleWebDoc http://magaloma.seasidehosting.st > (code here, http://www.squeaksource.com/SimpleWebDoc.html, proof-of-concept) > > Now it builds a package documentation overview by taking the first sentence of each class comment (if it has comment). For example: > http://magaloma.seasidehosting.st/Traits > > So we can quickly see (I think) the composition of a package. > > Maybe we can have a similar thing with the new HelpSystem. > > Laurent Laffont > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Why a package management system

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

Hi! StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:27 AM, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: > >> StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> So you are educating them.... >>> Frankly I stopped trying long time ago. >> Hey Stef, no need to be so sarcastic you know - several of us are in >> fact in BOTH communities. IMHO we all need to remember that. > > Do you think that I do not know it? [SNIP of lots of things you did in Squeak, no argument about that] > and in general **each** time this was a fight so I can say that I'm fed up arguing. I am fully aware of the history here, as you know, but I still ask all involved (on BOTH sides) to try to remember that our two communities overlap substantially. And personally I think your characterization of the Squeak community is a tad black & white. ;) I also know you quite well Steph, after all these years, so I hardly even react when you use harsh words :) - still, lots of other people are new in our communities. I think it would be much more ... "becoming" (and fruitful) if we all could stop "trash talking" each other - especially those of us who play a "larger role". Just my 2 cents, would be interesting to hear views of other Pharaos on this subject. regards, GÃ¶ran

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Help system now for Squeak and Pharo

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Danny Chan <chan_dhf(a)yahoo.de> wrote: > Hi! > > I like the idea. On the weekend I hacked a bit of code to generate help > pages > from the class and methods comments. I have just added another bit of code > that sorts the documentation for all methods so that methods with a <help> > pragma appear in a special section. See the "Help on Help" pages in the > browser. > > And I just learned that you can load this with > (ConfigurationOfHelpSystem project version: '1.0-baseline') load. > > You should read about Metacello :) You can start by reading Torsten post...that will follow to the metacello links too http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2010-February/144820… > Danny > > Am Sonntag, 21. Februar 2010 23:39:16 schrieb StÃ©phane Ducasse: > > Torsten / Danny > > > > I was discussing with laurent and I like his idea. > > We could tag > > test with > > <publichelp> > > > > and the tests would be used for the Help. We could design test that are > > more for understanding than identifying bugs and we would have a win-win > > situation: documentation and always in sync. > > > > doing the same for class comments would be nice. > > Often in a package you have one or two important classes. > > > > This would be a good incentive to get cool comments. > > > > On Feb 19, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > > > Since we share tools and code - we may in the future also > > > share (in-image) documentation for tools. What is new: > > > > > > - Refactored and updated the code > > > - Help System is now usable in Pharo and Squeak too > > > - Metacello config is updated for both > > > - there is an initial help for the Pharo project and the Squeak > project > > > (depending on from where you load it) > > > - the help for the help system is displayed as last book > > > - I merged HelpContents into a new HelpPage - so we have books and > > > pages (we may later add other forms than text in subclasses like > > > HTMLHelpPage, ...) > > > > > > The help browser includs a book on how to provide/implement an own > > > custom help. Future version may include specific colored icons for > > > squeak and better UI depending on the UI system (Polymorph in Squeak) > > > as well as authoring tools. > > > > > > Thanks to Metacello one is able to manage the differences. To load: > > > > > > Squeak > > > ====== > > > > > > Installer ss project: 'MetacelloRepository'; > > > install: 'ConfigurationOfHelpSystem'. > > > > > > ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfHelpSystem) project version: '1.0') > > > load > > > > > > > > > Pharo > > > ===== > > > > > > Gofer new > > > squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > > > package: 'ConfigurationOfHelpSystem'; > > > load. > > > > > > ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfHelpSystem) project version: '1.0') > > > load > > > > > > > > > Bye > > > T. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] how to remove World?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

this is a really good experiment please continue and let us know the results. Stef On Feb 22, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > I tried by starting pharo with a script: > > Project uiProcess suspend. > Smalltalk > snapshot: true > andQuit: true. > > ...and the processing stop working after the #suspend (no > snapshot:andQuit: happens :( ) > > On 2010-02-22 13:43:05 -0300, Lukas Renggli > <renggli(a)gmail.com> said: > >>> Is that also necessary for a headless Pharo/Squeak? >> >> No, it is not necessary. It saves a few CPU cycles because the event >> polling stops, the #step methods on the visible morphs are not called >> anymore, and the display is not updated any longer. >> >> Programmatically you can still do everything (headless or >> non-headless). For example you can open morphs and move them around, >> you just won't see a change on the screen. Code that have some >> interaction with the GUI thread (like the debugger) might deadlock (or >> hang) the system. >> >> Lukas > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 23, 2010