February 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello --- How to make sure that we will be able to load... in 3 years from now

by Lukas Renggli

> Perhaps Gofer can be provided with a secondary repository location in the case when the primary repository fails. Yes, it can. You just specify multiple repositories and it will use them all. If you tell Gofer to #disableRepositoryErrors then it will silently ignore repositories that are not available. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Metacello --- How to make sure that we will be able to load... in 3 years from now

by Dale Henrichs

I like the notion of a secondary repository for packages. It is absolutely necessary to protect us from a catastrophic failure with any one of the SqueakSource repositories. Perhaps Gofer can be provided with a secondary repository location in the case when the primary repository fails. With this kind of approach, the metacello configurations can continue to reference the primary development repository, in this way we might just be able to have our cake and eat it too:) The Pharo secondary repository would protect users from repository volatility and package volatility ... Once a version is published in Pharo you can count of being able to load that version over time. This secondary repository could be maintained by periodically scanning the Pharo configurations and copying the referenced packages from the primary repository to a known secondary repository (this repository could just be done with Apache file access since a fancy UI for the secondary repository isn't essential). Having code and processes in place means that individuals can reuse the code and process to maintain their own secondary repository for their own production environment. I have code that does most of what is needed, as I use this process at GemStone for archiving the configurations and mcz packages in our company source code control system. Dale ----- "GÃ¶ran Krampe" <goran(a)krampe.se> wrote: | Miguel Enrique CobÃ¡ Martinez wrote: | > El mar, 23-02-2010 a las 11:14 +0100, stephane ducasse escribiÃ³: | > I was thinking about this problem yesterday in the light of the | packages | > moved by Lukas. | > We have a problem with the packages referenced by a | ConfigurationOfXXX. | > The can disappear anytime. The repository can disappear anytime. | > | > So I thought that we need a dedicated hosting server where: | > | > - We have all the ConfigurationOfXXX (in the MetacelloRepository | repo, | > just as now) | > - We copy there *all* the packages that conform a giver | > ConfigurationOfXXX>>versionXX: from the original repo to this | dedicated | > repo. | > - There is *no way* to delete anything. This is a *write only, read | > always, delete never* repository. | | Sidenote: SqueakMap actually caches all URLs used for versions and if | the original URL fails an SHA check it falls back on the cached file | on | the SqueakMap server. | | In that way it was meant to handle original URLs going stale or | disappearing. | | regards, GÃ¶ran | | | _______________________________________________ | Pharo-project mailing list | Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr | http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Why a package management system

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

Hi! StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > On Feb 23, 2010, at 12:49 PM, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> You are probably right. I should not read squeak-dev anymore I spent my time trying to show >>> that there is NO contradiction between innovation/fun and good and clean system. >>> But I'm not fun enough or smart enough. >>> >>> Stef (a etoy haters that was so stupid that he translated the book of etoy in french, >>> an idiot that wrote most of the squeak books available right now, one of the four amigos that created the squeak foundation, >>> a guy that did this stupid squeak 3.9 - you know stef this guy without any vision that just wants a >>> "commercial smalltalk" puck! No innovation just plain engineering ....) >> First you write "You are probably right" and then you write the above, >> you just can't stop can you? :) > > Is it insulting for you when I say that I felt insulted and immensely sad? No, of course not, but... IMHO we have come to a point where some of us really want to work on sharing and cooperating between the two *overlapping* communities - and in that light these never ending "shots" are really not helping. And I am really trying to express this in my best humble and most respectful way, you know that. I love all the energy and work you personally pour into the Smalltalk community, you know that. I still wish you could... consider the fact I originally wrote: We overlap. And I really think the hostility is getting boring. regards, GÃ¶ran

Feb. 23, 2010

[Pharo-project] GemStone/S

by Gary Chambers

Having investigated the virtual appliance (GLASS) http://seaside.gemstone.com/ for a potential upcoming project... It is in shocking state with regard to maintenance duties... We will be trying a native install with Pharo, of course. The question is whether anyone is interested in collaborating with producing some decent GUI tools for doing general administration tasks (backups, recovery, archival etc.)? A lot of scope for taking the pain out of maintaining such an environment... Regards, Gary

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Why a package management system

by Gary Chambers

If that was fixing the "World" (you know what I mean) then I understand :-) Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Why a package management system A final point. Yes I was in a bad mood. When I replied to torsten. But mainly a bad mood against myself and my stupid idealistic idea that I could spend good energy fixing the world I like. Now I decided to spend it in Pharo. Stef On Feb 23, 2010, at 12:49 PM, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: > Hi! > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> You are probably right. I should not read squeak-dev anymore I spent my >> time trying to show >> that there is NO contradiction between innovation/fun and good and clean >> system. >> But I'm not fun enough or smart enough. >> >> Stef (a etoy haters that was so stupid that he translated the book of >> etoy in french, >> an idiot that wrote most of the squeak books available right now, one of >> the four amigos that created the squeak foundation, >> a guy that did this stupid squeak 3.9 - you know stef this guy without >> any vision that just wants a >> "commercial smalltalk" puck! No innovation just plain engineering ....) > > First you write "You are probably right" and then you write the above, > you just can't stop can you? :) > > regards, GÃ¶ran > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Why a package management system

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

A final point. Yes I was in a bad mood. When I replied to torsten. But mainly a bad mood against myself and my stupid idealistic idea that I could spend good energy fixing the world I like. Now I decided to spend it in Pharo. Stef On Feb 23, 2010, at 12:49 PM, GÃ¶ran Krampe wrote: > Hi! > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> You are probably right. I should not read squeak-dev anymore I spent my time trying to show >> that there is NO contradiction between innovation/fun and good and clean system. >> But I'm not fun enough or smart enough. >> >> Stef (a etoy haters that was so stupid that he translated the book of etoy in french, >> an idiot that wrote most of the squeak books available right now, one of the four amigos that created the squeak foundation, >> a guy that did this stupid squeak 3.9 - you know stef this guy without any vision that just wants a >> "commercial smalltalk" puck! No innovation just plain engineering ....) > > First you write "You are probably right" and then you write the above, > you just can't stop can you? :) > > regards, GÃ¶ran > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Diff tools

by Gary Chambers

I'll give it a go (keyboard shortcuts included) in the next DiffTools version... I guess you won't want a warning dialog the "What you are choosing means that any conflicts will be unchecked"... ;-) So, "use incoming for all incoming conficts" and "use current for all conflicts"? Regards, Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Diff tools Gary sometimes I know (since for example I already checked all the conflicts but the system crashes for another reason) that I want to take all the incoming versions or the working copy ones. Right now I have to go over the list each time (even if I know what I'm doing). in the old merge there was such buttons. Stef On Feb 23, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Gary Chambers wrote: > If you can describe exactly what you wish I'm sure it can be done ;-) ... > Remember, conflicts are conflicts and *should* be checked on a one-by-one > basis when merging. > > Regards, Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "StÃ©phane Ducasse" <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > To: <Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Diff tools > > >> gary >> do we have resolved all conflict by taking the incoming? >> and the inverse because in the old diff tools we could and this is handy. >> >> On Feb 9, 2010, at 4:24 PM, GARY CHAMBERS wrote: >> >>> New version on SqueakSource Polymorph-Tools-Diff-gvc.20. >>> >>> Descriptions added and small bug fix for merge tool (selecting next >>> conflict now ignores "resolved" conflicts). >>> >>> Merge and select incoming for each conflict to load.. >>> >>> Regards, Gary >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Why a package management system

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> I've been meaning to make system-change notifications for Pharo so the > recording-part could work there too, but I never seem to get around to it :( > Part of the problem is of course my own personal "The Best Way"(tm), > which f.ex. would include Announcements. > Since I'd like the ability to have Weak subscriptions, I'd first have to > deoptimize the Announcement-package Levente made a bit to make it > "prettier", can you explain a bit more the technical aspect? > make it a strict superset of what if found in Core already, > fix WeakRegistry so each resource registered for an object actually gets > finalized, which again means... etc... Oh, and hope it'd end up good > enough that it'd warrant inclusion:) I would love to see a bit more enhancement on Announcement. Stef

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Why a package management system

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

+ 1 let us work on the infrastructure. > Metacello is nothing new for sure, but contrary to other systems, it > seems to have reached wide acceptance in Pharo. > > IMHO that's a key point. We don't need to have the best package management system, we need to have only ONE. Major Linux distributions are great for that. Ruby too (though there has been a lot of problems when github came in, you had to choose which fork of the gem you wanted to use, everybody fork..... gemcutter has resolved this). > > When there will be needs to switch to another package management system, trash the old, only use the new one. So we can keep one way to load packages. > > Metacello is great :) > > Laurent Laffont. > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

Feb. 23, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Why a package management system

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

>> >> But Deltastreams are ready to use on production systems? > > Nope, not yet, although very close. But since the topic came up I wanted > to mention it. But AFAIK there is no other tool/project aimed at that > use case. Again, I may be wrong : BTW I like deltastream and your presentation at esug was convincing now this is important to try it for real before commiting. Stef

Feb. 23, 2010