December 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Fireworks 2011

by Olivier Auverlot

waoooh !!! Happy new year :) Olivier www.auverlot.fr Le 31 dÃ©c. 2010 Ã 17:12, Alexander LazareviÄ a Ã©crit : > Just found some old code of mine and pushed it to squeaksource. > > In a 4.1 Squeak or recent trunk image do > > (Installer repository: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Fireworks') install: 'Fireworks'. > (Smalltalk at: #FireworksAnimation) start. > > In a 1.1.1 Pharo image do > > ((Gofer new squeaksource: 'Fireworks') package: 'Fireworks') load. > (Smalltalk at: #FireworksAnimation) start. > > :D > > All the best for 2011, > Alex > > PS: ALT-. or CMD-. will help ;)

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] UI for Shortcuts [WAS: Which Keymaps/Shortcuts do we want to have?]

by Guillermo Polito

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 5:24 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > wrote: > looks cool now how can I sahre the same spec between two contexts? > That's problem #2 and ortogonal to shortcuts UI I think. Shouldn't we have the ability to export all our settings? Not only key bindings from one place and colors from other place... > > On Dec 31, 2010, at 12:28 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote: > > > Hi, I would like to discuss the UI for shortcuts and not to impose it > :). So.. > > > > I was exploring the Idea of configuring the shortcuts in settings as the > screenshot shows. What do you think of that? I don't think we need a > separated tool to configure shortcuts. Settings look ok. > > > > Tomorrow I'll be putting a lot of effort on it ;). > > > > Cheers! > > > > On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < > marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > I also would like a cmd+f: search anything... but that needs also an > application (like algernon, which I'm currently not supporting anymore due > time issues), not just a command :( > > well, at least a cmd+f: search class would be fine :) > > > > +1 > > It sound like a good project for someone with time and wanting to learn > :) > > > > > > El 27/12/2010, a las 5:38a.m., StÃ©phane Ducasse escribiÃ³: > > > > > I suggest that you define lists = > > > > > > simple eamcs bindings = > > > ctral a ctrle > > > > > > Windows manipulation > > > cmd W > > > ... > > > > > > Your special binding > > > > > > > > > Then you should have contexts > > > World > > > TextMorph > > > Editor only > > > > > > (of course some list will only be able to be attached to a given > object programmatically > > > example: for botsinc I wanted specific binding to that morph > class only -- but you do not care) > > > > > > then a config is > > > > > > (lists, lists) context > > > (mybinding, lists, lists) context > > > > > > where , make sure that mybinding take precedence > > > > > > > > > Does it make sense? > > > > > > Stef > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 27, 2010, at 2:37 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote: > > > > > >> What about something like the attach? > > >> > > >> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Guillermo Polito < > guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> Wow, haha, this is wonderful! So, putting some order: > > >> > > >> 1) shortcuts published as settings with a default? Will that be ok? > This make me think the following: > > >> - how to share shortcuts. Files? Keymapping used to use SIXX, but > maybe it is not suitable for a light solution (I don't know much about SIXX) > > >> - downloading a new image (or a new version of a package with > shortcuts) could make us lose our own-defined shortcuts. > > >> > > >> 2) support for the following shortcuts: > > >> > > >> - a shortcut to bring up the wolrd menu. Not sure which shortcut. > > >> - use ctrl + tab to switch between windows instead of cmd + arrows > > >> - a shortcut for what it is (hidden) now with cmd + shift + click > (list of opened windows) > > >> - Shortcuts for opening standard tools: Workspace, Transcript, > TestRunner, etc. > > >> - Shortcut for duplicating a windows > > >> - a shortcut for saving the image (cmd+ shoft + s ?) > > >> - a shortcut for quitting the image with and without saving > > >> - a shortcut to see a list of shortcuts > > >> > > >> I would like to add some more items to #2, and to define the keys that > triggers them. > > >> #1 seems to be of some work :). I'll work on it ASAP. > > >> > > >> Step by step, as Stef and Mostaza Merlo says :). > > >> > > >> Cheers! > > >> Guille > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:18 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > >> + 1 :) > > >> And save them as configuration > > >> > > >>> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > >>> my wishlist: > > >>> > > >>> - a shortcut to see all available shortcuts and change them > > >>> > > >>> + a lot > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> <PharoScreenshot.2.png> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <shortcuts.png> > > >

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] WeakArray>>isFinalizationSupported

by Igor Stasenko

2010/12/31 Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu>: > On Fri, 31 Dec 2010, Igor Stasenko wrote: > >> ahahaa.. you guys are killing me.. >> You are taking things too serious. >> Yeah.. i would be gladly hear from Levente, what is 'the proper >> deprecation policy'. >> But since nobody described it, we are doomed to use one, invented before >> :) > > I described my ideas here, so I won't repeat it. But I can tell you that > removing a method which wasn't deprecated at all is _not_ a proper > deprecation policy. > can you give a pointer, where i can read about it? >> >> Nothing is perfect, but its not the reason to fight. > > There's no fight. > uh okay.. whatever you call it :) > > Levente > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] WeakArray>>isFinalizationSupported

by Levente Uzonyi

On Fri, 31 Dec 2010, Miguel CobÃ¡ wrote: > El vie, 31-12-2010 a las 10:22 +0100, Levente Uzonyi escribiÃ³: >> On Thu, 30 Dec 2010, John McIntosh wrote: >> >>> Well the question as pointed out was does this vm support weak object >>> finalization? and since all closure vm support finalization, then >>> asking the question was mute, so it was ditched. Sophie from the 2003 >>> era had to ask. >> >> The need for the check it outdated, but the method is still sent by >> external packages. With proper deprecation policy the method would be >> still available. It would simply return true and raise a deprecation >> warning. > > But having a deprecated existing method also encourage to never update > the external packages, so old bits are floating around even if not > needed. Given the refactoring-mindset of the smalltalk community I'd say You're right, those popups with the deprecation warnings are really encouraging people to not update the code. And who would give a damn about the deprecation message anyway? It's better to guess why things don't work or ask someone else (list). Levente > that better to have tha package be broken so the next one that *really* > need that package update it as soon as discovered the flaw. That is a > little pain in the short term for the dude that suffered the blow up of > the package but overall good for the community once the package is > upgraded to the new times. > > Cheers > -- > Miguel CobÃ¡ > http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > > > > >

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] WeakArray>>isFinalizationSupported

by Levente Uzonyi

On Fri, 31 Dec 2010, Igor Stasenko wrote: > ahahaa.. you guys are killing me.. > You are taking things too serious. > Yeah.. i would be gladly hear from Levente, what is 'the proper > deprecation policy'. > But since nobody described it, we are doomed to use one, invented before :) I described my ideas here, so I won't repeat it. But I can tell you that removing a method which wasn't deprecated at all is _not_ a proper deprecation policy. > > Nothing is perfect, but its not the reason to fight. There's no fight. Levente > > On 31 December 2010 15:34, Nicolas Cellier > <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Stephane, >> You can't be serious: you learn something usefull from students acid >> comments and nothing from the ones of Levente ? >> Comm'on! >> It's guaranteed that you'll get complaints. Only who doesn't do anything won't. >> Forgetting is human, mistakes are, and unfortunately your are human too. >> You must accept to fail, and you must accept some critics: it's up to >> you to turn these in positive feedback. >> >> cheers >> >> Nicolas >> >> 2010/12/31 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >>> Thanks for the usual rant. This is good to have you here because we could have forgotten. >>> Now of course we apply deprecation (we are probably the guy responsible to get the methods in Squeak long long time ago) >>> but there are moments when there is too much to deprecate or when people forget. >>> And forgetting is humane. Now if your company has lot of money, we can hire another engineer and work full speed >>> and apply even more software engineering practices. >>> Now it does not mean that we do not pay attention. We pay attention to people and to their product. >>> May be each community needs its pain in the ass after all it shows that we get cooler and cooler. But it would be nice >>> if you could give us a break. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >>> On Dec 31, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Levente Uzonyi wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2010, John McIntosh wrote: >>>> >>>>> Well the question as pointed out was does this vm support weak object >>>>> finalization? and since all closure vm support finalization, then >>>>> asking the question was mute, so it was ditched. Sophie from the 2003 >>>>> era had to ask. >>>> >>>> The need for the check it outdated, but the method is still sent by external packages. With proper deprecation policy the method would be still available. It would simply return true and raise a deprecation warning. >>>> >>>> >>>> Levente >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 12/30/10, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >>>>>> Hopefully that can eventually be said as "backward compatibility with good >>>>>> stuff is a priority for Pharo." Â Moving targets are perhaps best left >>>>>> moving for now. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Levente Uzonyi >>>>>> [leves(a)elte.hu] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 6:13 PM >>>>>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] WeakArray>>isFinalizationSupported >>>>>> >>>>>> (or so) which is unrelated. The method was removed during a "cleanup". And >>>>>> as you know, backwards compatibility is not a priority for Pharo. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Levente >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> =========================================================================== >>>>> John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> >>>>> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. Â http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com >>>>> =========================================================================== >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko AKA sig. > >

Dec. 31, 2010

[Pharo-project] Fireworks 2011

by Alexander LazareviÄ

Just found some old code of mine and pushed it to squeaksource. In a 4.1 Squeak or recent trunk image do (Installer repository: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Fireworks') install: 'Fireworks'. (Smalltalk at: #FireworksAnimation) start. In a 1.1.1 Pharo image do ((Gofer new squeaksource: 'Fireworks') package: 'Fireworks') load. (Smalltalk at: #FireworksAnimation) start. :D All the best for 2011, Alex PS: ALT-. or CMD-. will help ;)

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] realized and learned something today :)

by Schwab,Wilhelm K

Stef, I approve<g>, provided you promise to keep it in perspective. If you are getting another layer of expectation of how computers work, then great. If you are allowing people with no image-based experience to discourage you, then please try to categorize their reactions into things that they will outgrow and things that we probably should address - there will be some of each. It might be informative to split a small group of newcomers, give half of them Squeak 3.8 or something, and half of them the current Pharo. It's an interesting thought experiment at least, and hopefully it illuminates the massive progress in Pharo. On the minute front, I think that fast dragging should be enabled by default; Watery users appear to have it regardless of the setting. Overall, the GUI is getting pretty good. Eventually Pharo's dependence on "the" world menu will become problematic. I don't know that we need native windows nearly as much as we could benefit from the discipline they would force on us. It would be nice to be able to use one native shell per tool, but having everything in one main window can be useful too. Silent failures need to be hunted down and killed. It sounds like good FFI enhancements are on the way. Pharo probably could be faster. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 4:56 PM To: Pharo Development Subject: [Pharo-project] realized and learned something today :) Hi guys I think that over the years I (but also many of you, I know) tried to expose newbies to smalltalk or our culture. And often we get bad reactions, bad windows, bad colors, slow, why not in svn, ..... I think that showing Smalltalk to newbies is the best we can do to ourselves, not really to attract new people but also to get a large kick in the %^&* because most of the time students are not stupid, they are exposed to other technos. So each time we believe we want to show them something cool and they do not really consider it as cool as we believe, we can of course think that they are idiot (some of them are) but most of the time we can also think that may be we stayed too long in our little boxes and the world moved (interfaced well with c, fast, cool frameworks, has cool tools, processes (integration...), cool UIs, web stuff.....). So each time we get down because we do not see the little flame opening in the yes of the others we can think hard and get from them what we missed. I really happy to get exposed to student acid tests, this is a valuable feedback and I wanted to share that with you. Stef

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] WeakArray>>isFinalizationSupported

by Miguel CobÃ¡

El vie, 31-12-2010 a las 10:22 +0100, Levente Uzonyi escribiÃ³: > On Thu, 30 Dec 2010, John McIntosh wrote: > > > Well the question as pointed out was does this vm support weak object > > finalization? and since all closure vm support finalization, then > > asking the question was mute, so it was ditched. Sophie from the 2003 > > era had to ask. > > The need for the check it outdated, but the method is still sent by > external packages. With proper deprecation policy the method would be > still available. It would simply return true and raise a deprecation > warning. But having a deprecated existing method also encourage to never update the external packages, so old bits are floating around even if not needed. Given the refactoring-mindset of the smalltalk community I'd say that better to have tha package be broken so the next one that *really* need that package update it as soon as discovered the flaw. That is a little pain in the short term for the dude that suffered the blow up of the package but overall good for the community once the package is upgraded to the new times. Cheers -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] WeakArray>>isFinalizationSupported

by Sean P. DeNigris

Igor Stasenko wrote: > > On 31 December 2010 12:45, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On 31 December 2010 11:03, Nicolas Cellier >> <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> If Pharo wants to remove these deprecated methods, an alternative >>> policy is to move deprecated methods in a separate backward >>> compatibility package. > > Utilities moveDeprecatedToCruft > "put all senders of #deprecated to '*Pharo-Cruft' category" > ... > Yes, awesome idea! This would be so helpful. When rescuing an old package, one could load it into an image with Cruft installed, and... Igor Stasenko wrote: > > (all deprecated methods should contain a comment describing, why it was > removed and what should be used instead). > This is the key! It would be almost trivial to upgrade old packages if the debugger explained how the code should be changed! There could even be a link to a relevant help topic, if one exists. Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/WeakArray-isFinalizationSupported-tp3168849p3169485.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] realized and learned something today :)

by Miguel CobÃ¡

El vie, 31-12-2010 a las 14:59 +0100, StÃ©phane Ducasse escribiÃ³: > Because this is good to believe that we are the best and it may work in a nice little club in a small village may be we are important > and know the truth but if you go to a real city then reality is just different. +10 -- Miguel CobÃ¡ http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz http://miguel.leugim.com.mx

Dec. 31, 2010