December 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] UI for Shortcuts [WAS: Which Keymaps/Shortcuts do we want to have?]

by Alain Plantec

> There is. In the settings browser, in the top left where it says > "Style", choose new... > > > But it does not change dinamically, does it? normally yes, just load your style. if not then it's an issue :) > I should add the default shortcut loading into that setting classes, > and that doesn't look fine :). > > > In addition, Alain said once to add "partial settings saving" > where you can jusst save some settings and not all. I am not sure > its state. > It will be for 1.3

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] realized and learned something today :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

My point was not about pharo against squeak. I'm not at the microscopic level.... I'm just thinking that remembering when is the last we were bold and face a complete room to students knowing Java, ruby.... is a good way to get feedback on what we believe is cool. Stef > Stef, > > I approve<g>, provided you promise to keep it in perspective. If you are getting another layer of expectation of how computers work, then great. If you are allowing people with no image-based experience to discourage you, then please try to categorize their reactions into things that they will outgrow and things that we probably should address - there will be some of each. > > It might be informative to split a small group of newcomers, give half of them Squeak 3.8 or something, and half of them the current Pharo. It's an interesting thought experiment at least, and hopefully it illuminates the massive progress in Pharo. > > On the minute front, I think that fast dragging should be enabled by default; Watery users appear to have it regardless of the setting. Overall, the GUI is getting pretty good. Eventually Pharo's dependence on "the" world menu will become problematic. I don't know that we need native windows nearly as much as we could benefit from the discipline they would force on us. It would be nice to be able to use one native shell per tool, but having everything in one main window can be useful too. > > Silent failures need to be hunted down and killed. It sounds like good FFI enhancements are on the way. Pharo probably could be faster. > > Bill > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane Ducasse [stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr] > Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 4:56 PM > To: Pharo Development > Subject: [Pharo-project] realized and learned something today :) > > Hi guys > > I think that over the years I (but also many of you, I know) tried to expose newbies to smalltalk or our culture. > And often we get bad reactions, bad windows, bad colors, slow, why not in svn, ..... > I think that showing Smalltalk to newbies is the best we can do to ourselves, not really to attract new people > but also to get a large kick in the %^&* because most of the time students are not stupid, they are exposed to > other technos. So each time we believe we want to show them something cool and they do not really > consider it as cool as we believe, we can of course think that they are idiot (some of them are) but > most of the time we can also think that may be we stayed too long in our little boxes and the world > moved (interfaced well with c, fast, cool frameworks, has cool tools, processes (integration...), cool UIs, web stuff.....). > So each time we get down because we do not see the little flame opening in the yes of the others > we can think hard and get from them what we missed. > > I really happy to get exposed to student acid tests, this is a valuable feedback and I wanted to share that with you. > > Stef >

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] realized and learned something today :)

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks miguel it was the essence of my message to myself and others :) I shared it with you because been aware of that will only make all of us stronger and more sensitive to the outside world :) > El vie, 31-12-2010 a las 14:59 +0100, StÃ©phane Ducasse escribiÃ³: > >> Because this is good to believe that we are the best and it may work in a nice little club in a small village may be we are important >> and know the truth but if you go to a real city then reality is just different. > > +10 > > -- > Miguel CobÃ¡ > http://twitter.com/MiguelCobaMtz > http://miguel.leugim.com.mx > > > >

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3498 in pharo: remove:ifAbsent: in linked list leads to interruption/sync problems

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks nicolas. I cannot remember this by hearth. For me this is really strange to have that rely on the way the execution engine make subtle differences between similar entity at the language level. I'm probably too idiot to understand why language semantics is mixed with optimization of the underlying execution engine. On Dec 31, 2010, at 3:15 PM, Nicolas Cellier wrote: > 2010/12/31 <pharo(a)googlecode.com>: >> Updates: >> Cc: marcus.denker >> >> Comment #4 on issue 3498 by marianopeck: remove:ifAbsent: in linked list >> leads to interruption/sync problems >> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3498 >> >> Stef, I am not Adrian, but yes, I think that can be the reasons. Just take >> the example of Andreas. When you do foo == nil, when that's compiled, it put >> a special bytcode for the == primitive (no method is send). >> It seems the scheduler can change processes during method sends. In most >> clases, this may not be a problem. But if you cahnge foo == nil, by foo >> isNil, it may be a point where it can be preempted. And maybe there are >> places where this cannot happen, probably the place where the the processes >> are managed or the code needed for that, like Andras said, process, delay, >> semaphore, etc. >> >> What I don't understand is that I thought that the compiler replaces foo >> isNil by foo == nil. And if this is the case, then what has been explained >> doesn't make sense :( >> > > No, only #ifNil: is a selector handled specially by Compiler. > > Nicolas >

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fireworks 2011

by Sean P. DeNigris

That was cool! Thanks. Happy New Year!!! -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fireworks-2011-tp3169564p3169601.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] UI for Shortcuts [WAS: Which Keymaps/Shortcuts do we want to have?]

by Guillermo Polito

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Guillermo Polito < > guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 5:24 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < >> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> looks cool now how can I sahre the same spec between two contexts? >>> >> >> That's problem #2 and ortogonal to shortcuts UI I think. Shouldn't we >> have the ability to export all our settings? Not only key bindings from one >> place and colors from other place... >> >> > > There is. In the settings browser, in the top left where it says "Style", > choose new... > But it does not change dinamically, does it? I should add the default shortcut loading into that setting classes, and that doesn't look fine :). > > In addition, Alain said once to add "partial settings saving" where you can > jusst save some settings and not all. I am not sure its state. > > cheers > > mariano > > >> >>> On Dec 31, 2010, at 12:28 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote: >>> >>> > Hi, I would like to discuss the UI for shortcuts and not to impose it >>> :). So.. >>> > >>> > I was exploring the Idea of configuring the shortcuts in settings as >>> the screenshot shows. What do you think of that? I don't think we need a >>> separated tool to configure shortcuts. Settings look ok. >>> > >>> > Tomorrow I'll be putting a lot of effort on it ;). >>> > >>> > Cheers! >>> > >>> > On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < >>> marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Esteban Lorenzano < >>> estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> > I also would like a cmd+f: search anything... but that needs also an >>> application (like algernon, which I'm currently not supporting anymore due >>> time issues), not just a command :( >>> > well, at least a cmd+f: search class would be fine :) >>> > >>> > +1 >>> > It sound like a good project for someone with time and wanting to learn >>> :) >>> > >>> > >>> > El 27/12/2010, a las 5:38a.m., StÃ©phane Ducasse escribiÃ³: >>> > >>> > > I suggest that you define lists = >>> > > >>> > > simple eamcs bindings = >>> > > ctral a ctrle >>> > > >>> > > Windows manipulation >>> > > cmd W >>> > > ... >>> > > >>> > > Your special binding >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Then you should have contexts >>> > > World >>> > > TextMorph >>> > > Editor only >>> > > >>> > > (of course some list will only be able to be attached to a >>> given object programmatically >>> > > example: for botsinc I wanted specific binding to that morph >>> class only -- but you do not care) >>> > > >>> > > then a config is >>> > > >>> > > (lists, lists) context >>> > > (mybinding, lists, lists) context >>> > > >>> > > where , make sure that mybinding take precedence >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Does it make sense? >>> > > >>> > > Stef >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Dec 27, 2010, at 2:37 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote: >>> > > >>> > >> What about something like the attach? >>> > >> >>> > >> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Guillermo Polito < >>> guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >> Wow, haha, this is wonderful! So, putting some order: >>> > >> >>> > >> 1) shortcuts published as settings with a default? Will that be ok? >>> This make me think the following: >>> > >> - how to share shortcuts. Files? Keymapping used to use SIXX, but >>> maybe it is not suitable for a light solution (I don't know much about SIXX) >>> > >> - downloading a new image (or a new version of a package with >>> shortcuts) could make us lose our own-defined shortcuts. >>> > >> >>> > >> 2) support for the following shortcuts: >>> > >> >>> > >> - a shortcut to bring up the wolrd menu. Not sure which shortcut. >>> > >> - use ctrl + tab to switch between windows instead of cmd + arrows >>> > >> - a shortcut for what it is (hidden) now with cmd + shift + click >>> (list of opened windows) >>> > >> - Shortcuts for opening standard tools: Workspace, Transcript, >>> TestRunner, etc. >>> > >> - Shortcut for duplicating a windows >>> > >> - a shortcut for saving the image (cmd+ shoft + s ?) >>> > >> - a shortcut for quitting the image with and without saving >>> > >> - a shortcut to see a list of shortcuts >>> > >> >>> > >> I would like to add some more items to #2, and to define the keys >>> that triggers them. >>> > >> #1 seems to be of some work :). I'll work on it ASAP. >>> > >> >>> > >> Step by step, as Stef and Mostaza Merlo says :). >>> > >> >>> > >> Cheers! >>> > >> Guille >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:18 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> > >> + 1 :) >>> > >> And save them as configuration >>> > >> >>> > >>> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> my wishlist: >>> > >>> >>> > >>> - a shortcut to see all available shortcuts and change them >>> > >>> >>> > >>> + a lot >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> <PharoScreenshot.2.png> >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > <shortcuts.png> >>> >>> >>> >> >

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] UI for Shortcuts [WAS: Which Keymaps/Shortcuts do we want to have?]

by Guillermo Polito

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 6:57 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Guille, I like the UI. Few comments: > > - what is that KMMeta ? seems kryptic to me. Shortcuts have to be very > clear and easy to understand. I really didn't understand at all :( > - what is the difference between '+' and ',' ? > Yes, yes, I was only prototyping... Actually I shoud rename KMMeta to KMCommand :P. > > Maybe a little help somewhere would be fine. > Ahhh and what about letting you type something and recognize the shortcut > instead of writing it? heheh this is a good one ;) > Mmm, I can take what Alain said and this, and have a nice thing ;) > > cheers > > mariano > > > On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 12:28 AM, Guillermo Polito < > guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi, I would like to discuss the UI for shortcuts and not to impose it :). >> So.. >> >> I was exploring the Idea of configuring the shortcuts in settings as the >> screenshot shows. What do you think of that? I don't think we need a >> separated tool to configure shortcuts. Settings look ok. >> >> Tomorrow I'll be putting a lot of effort on it ;). >> >> Cheers! >> >> On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < >> marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> I also would like a cmd+f: search anything... but that needs also an >>>> application (like algernon, which I'm currently not supporting anymore due >>>> time issues), not just a command :( >>>> well, at least a cmd+f: search class would be fine :) >>>> >>> >>> +1 >>> It sound like a good project for someone with time and wanting to learn >>> :) >>> >>> >>>> >>>> El 27/12/2010, a las 5:38a.m., StÃ©phane Ducasse escribiÃ³: >>>> >>>> > I suggest that you define lists = >>>> > >>>> > simple eamcs bindings = >>>> > ctral a ctrle >>>> > >>>> > Windows manipulation >>>> > cmd W >>>> > ... >>>> > >>>> > Your special binding >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Then you should have contexts >>>> > World >>>> > TextMorph >>>> > Editor only >>>> > >>>> > (of course some list will only be able to be attached to a given >>>> object programmatically >>>> > example: for botsinc I wanted specific binding to that morph >>>> class only -- but you do not care) >>>> > >>>> > then a config is >>>> > >>>> > (lists, lists) context >>>> > (mybinding, lists, lists) context >>>> > >>>> > where , make sure that mybinding take precedence >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Does it make sense? >>>> > >>>> > Stef >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Dec 27, 2010, at 2:37 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> What about something like the attach? >>>> >> >>>> >> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Guillermo Polito < >>>> guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >> Wow, haha, this is wonderful! So, putting some order: >>>> >> >>>> >> 1) shortcuts published as settings with a default? Will that be ok? >>>> This make me think the following: >>>> >> - how to share shortcuts. Files? Keymapping used to use SIXX, but >>>> maybe it is not suitable for a light solution (I don't know much about SIXX) >>>> >> - downloading a new image (or a new version of a package with >>>> shortcuts) could make us lose our own-defined shortcuts. >>>> >> >>>> >> 2) support for the following shortcuts: >>>> >> >>>> >> - a shortcut to bring up the wolrd menu. Not sure which shortcut. >>>> >> - use ctrl + tab to switch between windows instead of cmd + arrows >>>> >> - a shortcut for what it is (hidden) now with cmd + shift + click >>>> (list of opened windows) >>>> >> - Shortcuts for opening standard tools: Workspace, Transcript, >>>> TestRunner, etc. >>>> >> - Shortcut for duplicating a windows >>>> >> - a shortcut for saving the image (cmd+ shoft + s ?) >>>> >> - a shortcut for quitting the image with and without saving >>>> >> - a shortcut to see a list of shortcuts >>>> >> >>>> >> I would like to add some more items to #2, and to define the keys >>>> that triggers them. >>>> >> #1 seems to be of some work :). I'll work on it ASAP. >>>> >> >>>> >> Step by step, as Stef and Mostaza Merlo says :). >>>> >> >>>> >> Cheers! >>>> >> Guille >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:18 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < >>>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> >> + 1 :) >>>> >> And save them as configuration >>>> >> >>>> >>> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>> my wishlist: >>>> >>> >>>> >>> - a shortcut to see all available shortcuts and change them >>>> >>> >>>> >>> + a lot >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> <PharoScreenshot.2.png> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] UI for Shortcuts [WAS: Which Keymaps/Shortcuts do we want to have?]

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com > wrote: > > > On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 5:24 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < > stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> looks cool now how can I sahre the same spec between two contexts? >> > > That's problem #2 and ortogonal to shortcuts UI I think. Shouldn't we have > the ability to export all our settings? Not only key bindings from one > place and colors from other place... > > There is. In the settings browser, in the top left where it says "Style", choose new... In addition, Alain said once to add "partial settings saving" where you can jusst save some settings and not all. I am not sure its state. cheers mariano > >> On Dec 31, 2010, at 12:28 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote: >> >> > Hi, I would like to discuss the UI for shortcuts and not to impose it >> :). So.. >> > >> > I was exploring the Idea of configuring the shortcuts in settings as the >> screenshot shows. What do you think of that? I don't think we need a >> separated tool to configure shortcuts. Settings look ok. >> > >> > Tomorrow I'll be putting a lot of effort on it ;). >> > >> > Cheers! >> > >> > On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < >> marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Esteban Lorenzano < >> estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > I also would like a cmd+f: search anything... but that needs also an >> application (like algernon, which I'm currently not supporting anymore due >> time issues), not just a command :( >> > well, at least a cmd+f: search class would be fine :) >> > >> > +1 >> > It sound like a good project for someone with time and wanting to learn >> :) >> > >> > >> > El 27/12/2010, a las 5:38a.m., StÃ©phane Ducasse escribiÃ³: >> > >> > > I suggest that you define lists = >> > > >> > > simple eamcs bindings = >> > > ctral a ctrle >> > > >> > > Windows manipulation >> > > cmd W >> > > ... >> > > >> > > Your special binding >> > > >> > > >> > > Then you should have contexts >> > > World >> > > TextMorph >> > > Editor only >> > > >> > > (of course some list will only be able to be attached to a given >> object programmatically >> > > example: for botsinc I wanted specific binding to that morph >> class only -- but you do not care) >> > > >> > > then a config is >> > > >> > > (lists, lists) context >> > > (mybinding, lists, lists) context >> > > >> > > where , make sure that mybinding take precedence >> > > >> > > >> > > Does it make sense? >> > > >> > > Stef >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Dec 27, 2010, at 2:37 AM, Guillermo Polito wrote: >> > > >> > >> What about something like the attach? >> > >> >> > >> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Guillermo Polito < >> guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> Wow, haha, this is wonderful! So, putting some order: >> > >> >> > >> 1) shortcuts published as settings with a default? Will that be ok? >> This make me think the following: >> > >> - how to share shortcuts. Files? Keymapping used to use SIXX, but >> maybe it is not suitable for a light solution (I don't know much about SIXX) >> > >> - downloading a new image (or a new version of a package with >> shortcuts) could make us lose our own-defined shortcuts. >> > >> >> > >> 2) support for the following shortcuts: >> > >> >> > >> - a shortcut to bring up the wolrd menu. Not sure which shortcut. >> > >> - use ctrl + tab to switch between windows instead of cmd + arrows >> > >> - a shortcut for what it is (hidden) now with cmd + shift + click >> (list of opened windows) >> > >> - Shortcuts for opening standard tools: Workspace, Transcript, >> TestRunner, etc. >> > >> - Shortcut for duplicating a windows >> > >> - a shortcut for saving the image (cmd+ shoft + s ?) >> > >> - a shortcut for quitting the image with and without saving >> > >> - a shortcut to see a list of shortcuts >> > >> >> > >> I would like to add some more items to #2, and to define the keys >> that triggers them. >> > >> #1 seems to be of some work :). I'll work on it ASAP. >> > >> >> > >> Step by step, as Stef and Mostaza Merlo says :). >> > >> >> > >> Cheers! >> > >> Guille >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:18 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < >> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> > >> + 1 :) >> > >> And save them as configuration >> > >> >> > >>> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >>> my wishlist: >> > >>> >> > >>> - a shortcut to see all available shortcuts and change them >> > >>> >> > >>> + a lot >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> <PharoScreenshot.2.png> >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > <shortcuts.png> >> >> >> >

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] UI for Shortcuts [WAS: Which Keymaps/Shortcuts do we want to have?]

by Guillermo Polito

On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 5:50 AM, Alain Plantec <alain.plantec(a)free.fr>wrote: > Very cool, thanks. > The setting browser is easily extendable. see how Shout colors settings are > integrated. > Have a look at SHStyleSetting. the UI is declared in SHStyleSetting > class>>settingInputWidgetForNode: > Maybe we can have something like that for shortcuts: a drop list for the > key modifier and a text field for the shortcut character. > That looks good. I'll have a deeper look later :). But I'd like to find a nice way to declare composed shortcuts, just like the chain Cmd + a -> Cmd + b > Cheers > Alain > > Le 31/12/2010 00:28, Guillermo Polito a Ã©crit : > > Hi, I would like to discuss the UI for shortcuts and not to impose it :). >> So.. >> >> I was exploring the Idea of configuring the shortcuts in settings as the >> screenshot shows. What do you think of that? I don't think we need a >> separated tool to configure shortcuts. Settings look ok. >> >> Tomorrow I'll be putting a lot of effort on it ;). >> >> Cheers! >> > >

Dec. 31, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fireworks 2011

by Mariano Martinez Peck

heheheheh excellent!! wish you a happy new year to everybody On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Olivier Auverlot < olivier.auverlot(a)gmail.com> wrote: > waoooh !!! > > Happy new year :) > > Olivier > www.auverlot.fr > > Le 31 dÃ©c. 2010 Ã 17:12, Alexander LazareviÄ a Ã©crit : > > Just found some old code of mine and pushed it to squeaksource. > > In a 4.1 Squeak or recent trunk image do > > (Installer repository: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/Fireworks') install: > 'Fireworks'. > (Smalltalk at: #FireworksAnimation) start. > > In a 1.1.1 Pharo image do > > ((Gofer new squeaksource: 'Fireworks') package: 'Fireworks') load. > (Smalltalk at: #FireworksAnimation) start. > > :D > > All the best for 2011, > Alex > > PS: ALT-. or CMD-. will help ;) > > >

Dec. 31, 2010