December 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Alien + Cog VM

by Joachim Geidel

Hi Eliot, On Nov 11, 2010; 02:40am, Eliot Miranda-2 wrote: > But I'm hoping that the ALien callouts will die the death soon. I have > Alien callbacks integrated with the FFI and of course the ALien data > manipulation code works fine. So if you're eager to have Alien callouts > work see whether the above change fixes things, in which case I can > integrate the fix. But if you're not so eager you could wait for me to > push out the FFI changes, but that could take a few weeks. What exactly does "Alien callouts will die" mean? Does it mean that the Alien class library is deprecated and will be replaced by a new version of FFI? Or is it something else? I am close to releasing JNIPort for Pharo/Squeak. I am currently using Alien for interfacing to the Java VM, and with the exception of callbacks from the JVM to Smalltalk which come from foreign threads, everything works now on the Squeak VM ("foreign" callbacks still crash the VM which outputs "scheduler could not find a runnable process" to the console). I would be a bit unhappy if I had to dump this work and redo the interface to the JVM, and I wouldn't be happy at all if I had to use different class libraries for calling foreign functions depending on the VM (Cog vs. Squeak VM). So, what's the "official" plan for Alien/FFI? Best regards, Joachim Geidel -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Alien-Cog-VM-tp3036626p3164309.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [OT] Re: Why Smalltalk ? Which Smalltalk ?

by Dave Mason

Can we all just chill and accept that occasionally there will be misunderstandings? This is an English mailing list where the majority speak English as a second language (vastly better than I speak anything other than English!). As a native English speaker, there are frequently turns of phrase that I can see that someone might take as brusque or rude. So like the adage on implementing of protocols, please be conservative in your output (i.e. as polite and clear as possible) and liberal in your input (i.e. assume the best and that any perceived slight is from the imperfection of the medium). I have a preference for Pharo, but it is clearly in the Squeak family and internecine fighting is both unbecoming and anti-productive... the more cross fertilization between Squeak and Pharo, the better, although both will apply their own judgements. But more importantly, we are Smalltalkers. Smalltalk is a very important language, and the software development landscape will be a better place if more Smalltalk is used. So let's focus on talking about, and working on, our (dialect or language) strengths, and not on putting others down - whatever may have been the history. ../Dave

Dec. 26, 2010

[Pharo-project] Issue 3483 in pharo: avoid error in MCPackageLoader when running without sources

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Status: Fixed Owner: stephane.ducasse Labels: Milestone-1.2 New issue 3483 by stephane.ducasse: avoid error in MCPackageLoader when running without sources http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3483 avoid error in MCPackageLoader when running without sources For hilaire Ipad application in inbox: Name: Monticello-BertFreudenberg.468

Dec. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] marketing or not?

by Richard Durr

The debug systems looks really interesting. maybe someone can copy it for clamato On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 12:16 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > A browser based Smalltalk IDE (for web-apps) is absolutely the way to go > and > > Smalltalk is ideal for it too! > > Not necessarily but indeed this would be good to have so that we can have a > micro kernel without ui. > > > >

Dec. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [OT] Re: Why Smalltalk ? Which Smalltalk ?

by Geert Claes

I like to look at Squeak and Pharo as two communities that give people a choice. A brief explanation for those who haven't been around for that long: a couple of years ago there were certain differences in vision and opinion which resulted in a number of Squeakers to start their own Smalltalk Implementation. Levente Uzonyi wrote: > > Let me respond to only those parts that weren't answered already: > I don't like the idea what some Pharo users and developers (yes, that's > including you too) are suggesting about Squeak. A few examples: > - Squeak has no vision > - Squeak should be a multimedia platform > - the purpose of Squeak is to support EToys > Pharo only says it will "not" support eToys, this does not mean it is Squeak's purpose is to support eToys, it only means Pharo will not. Levente Uzonyi-2 wrote: > > - Squeak should only be used for educational purposes > - Squeak is a mess (while Pharo is clean) > - Squeak is dead > etc. > > IMHO Squeak is and should be "a modern, open source, full-featured > implementation of the powerful Smalltalk programming language and > environment". This implies that it should be good for everything what > Pharo is good for. Since I use it for software developement and I'm making > a living with it - just like many other people in the past (including some > of you) and present - it should be developer friendly too. > > Why "I got stuck in Squeak"? That's a long story, so let me tell you what > I like better in Squeak than Pharo instead: > - Squeak's update mechanism is a lot more stable. If you update your image > you have ~99% chance that it will work with your already loaded packages. > I can always use the bleeding edge version, because it's like a beta or > rc. We have some deployed images which were updated from 3.10.2 to the > current 4.2 (with Seaside and lot of other packages). > - When it's possible to do something in a backwards compatible way, then > it's usually done that way. > - The contribution process is simpler. > - The code changes appear on the mailing list. > - Colorful windows make it easy to find the one you're looking for. Most > windows are grey in Pharo even if you use a "Squeak theme". > - The UI feels faster. > - I use the toolbar with it's search tool all the time. The taskbar in > Pharo doesn't seem to be useful, but that's probably because I used to > find windows by colors. > > The list is not complete, but I guess the most important ones are here > from a user's POV. > Absolutely, today there are those who prefer Squeak and the Squeak way and that is perfectly fine. On the other hand there are others who prefer Pharo and the Pharo way and thats fine too. Both Smalltalk Implementations are (amongs others) freely available to choose from for anyone interested in Smalltalk. Choice is and always has been a good thing. Looking at the size of both communities it clearly shows that there was justification to start the Pharo Smalltalk Implementation as well as continue Squeak Smalltalk. So every time there is a "which Smalltalk" question, everyone should try out the different Smalltalk Implementations (http://www.world.st/implementations) and decide which is best for its purpose because any new Smalltalker is good for the Smalltalk community irrespective of Smalltalk Implementation. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-Smalltalk-Which-Smalltalk-tp3103039p3164282.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [OT] Re: Why Smalltalk ? Which Smalltalk ?

by Igor Stasenko

2010/12/26 Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu>: > - Squeak is dead Levente, Squeak is dead for those who don't wanna use it. Pharo is dead for those who don't wanna use it. This is truth, and you don't need to waste your time trying to disprove that, especially knowing that it may hurt some passionate souls in both camps ;) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Issue 3482 in pharo: InterimSoundMorph references to SketchMorph

by pharo＠googlecode.com

Comment #1 on issue 3482 by stephane.ducasse: InterimSoundMorph references to SketchMorph http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=3482 Thanks thanks for all your good energy.

Dec. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [OT] Re: Why Smalltalk ? Which Smalltalk ?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

levente can you keep such kind of mails for Squeak-dev? Or I will have to add you to my filter. Stef >> Hi levente, >> >> after your mails some people sent me private mails because they did not feel well. They wondered why people were sending mails against pharo in this mailing-list while they do not send aggressive mails in squeak. >> I can understand them. Now I think that this is ok that you send the mails you want, >> you can send your feelings here, even if this is not that positive :). Kicks in the ass is always a feedback and we can make progress. >> I always appreciated your benchmarks and precise remarks. I liked (and I told you publicly) that you always replied to my mails about your changes in squeak. I can understand your frustration (I have been there for years trying to move squeak - again we did not do pharo for an ego problem - I cannot tell the number of students that looked at me like I was an idiot to use a system with all the colors and messy menus). We do pharo to build an ecosystem where people can expand, create cool ideas and make money to live from them. >> What is wrong with that? >> >> Now do not play pharo against squeak, it will not work on the mid term and this is not fun for everybody. I would love that Squeak builds its own real vision: for example been a real multimedia platform. We could have a lot of fun. Now I think that except a miracle this will not happen: after 10 years, squeak failed to go to the next level - I wanted everything and more Cairo, Zoomable interface, crazy ideas and all the rest - I was a big fan of Sophie (I can tell you that I was a bit fucked by some bulgarian people on that level trying to support Squeak and sophie there) and other impara tools. Now impara failed to make squeak sexy and them the center of the universe - They could have but may be they did not have the vision to be something else than >> building tools for alan. Anyway this is life. Now I wonder why you get stuck in Squeak you are welcome in Pharo. May be Squeak fits your vision and spirit but I do not understand what we are doing wrong so that you are mad against us. > > Let me respond to only those parts that weren't answered already: > I don't like the idea what some Pharo users and developers (yes, that's including you too) are suggesting about Squeak. A few examples: > - Squeak has no vision > - Squeak should be a multimedia platform > - the purpose of Squeak is to support EToys > - Squeak should only be used for educational purposes > - Squeak is a mess (while Pharo is clean) > - Squeak is dead > etc. > IMHO Squeak is and should be "a modern, open source, full-featured implementation of the powerful Smalltalk programming language and environment". This implies that it should be good for everything what Pharo is good for. Since I use it for software developement and I'm making a living with it - just like many other people in the past (including some of you) and present - it should be developer friendly too. > > Why "I got stuck in Squeak"? That's a long story, so let me tell you what I like better in Squeak than Pharo instead: > - Squeak's update mechanism is a lot more stable. If you update your image you have ~99% chance that it will work with your already loaded packages. I can always use the bleeding edge version, because it's like a beta or rc. We have some deployed images which were updated from 3.10.2 to the current 4.2 (with Seaside and lot of other packages). > - When it's possible to do something in a backwards compatible way, then it's usually done that way. > - The contribution process is simpler. > - The code changes appear on the mailing list. > - Colorful windows make it easy to find the one you're looking for. Most windows are grey in Pharo even if you use a "Squeak theme". > - The UI feels faster. > - I use the toolbar with it's search tool all the time. The taskbar in Pharo doesn't seem to be useful, but that's probably because I used to find windows by colors. > > The list is not complete, but I guess the most important ones are here from a user's POV. > > > Levente > >> >> Stef >>

Dec. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Dear Santa ...

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

MIT since it is published in Squeak. On Dec 26, 2010, at 11:22 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > what is the licence? because we already have problem with that. > > On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 10:04 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Ralph > > point us to it, what is it, where is it? > open a ticker with the code is the best way to make sure that something can happen. > Provide tests is another steps. > > Stef I think that this one can be easily done. > > On Dec 26, 2010, at 2:21 AM, Ralph Boland wrote: > > > Dear Santa, if it's not too late, please add the generator code > > that Andreas Raas added to Squeak to Pharo as well. > > Generators are used in some of the packages that I have written > > for Squeak but they don't port to Pharo without the generator code. > > Oh please Santa, it's under 150 lines of code and it is so so useful! > > > > Merry Xmas to all, Squeaker and Pharoer alike. > > > > Ralph Boland > > > > >

Dec. 26, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] does anybody ported neopus to squeak/pharo?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Bakctalk is not about RETE this is a constraint solvers. On Dec 26, 2010, at 4:32 AM, Chip Nowacek wrote: > > When I try to load BT-ggf.30.mcz (squeaksource.com/BackTalk) I get what's > below. I wish I was clever enough to figure out how to get past this: > > This package depends on the following classes: > View > You must resolve these dependencies before you will be able to load these > definitions: > AbstractBoardView > AbstractBoardView>>changeNbSquares > AbstractBoardView>>changeNbSquaresSquared > AbstractBoardView>>changeSquareSize > AbstractBoardView>>defaultControllerClass > AbstractBoardView>>displayOn: > AbstractBoardView>>displaySquare:on: > AbstractBoardView>>initSquareBounds > AbstractBoardView>>initialize > AbstractBoardView>>model: > AbstractBoardView>>redisplaySquare: > AbstractBoardView>>redisplaySquares: > AbstractBoardView>>squareAtPosition: > AbstractBoardView>>squareSize > AbstractBoardView>>squareSize: > BTSolutionView > BTSolutionView classSide>>initialize > BTSolutionView classSide>>openOn: > BTSolutionView>>displayOn: > BTSolutionView>>update > > > Select Proceed to continue, or close this window to cancel the operation. > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/does-anybody-ported-neopus-to-squeak-pharo-tp3031913p… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Dec. 26, 2010