December 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Fuel - a fast object deployment tool

by Levente Uzonyi

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010, Adrian Lienhard wrote: >>>> Even if Fuel can be 10x faster, it doesn't really make a difference IMHO. >>> >>> It would be interesting to thoroughly profile MC to figure where it spends all its time (with large projects it gets very very slow, like several minutes to just show the merge diffs between two branches). >> >> I guess those days are over when MC spends minutes doing this, it's at most a few seconds for large packages. The 1.5MB Morphic package of Squeak can be compared to another really old version (changes) in 3 seconds. According to MessageTally 50% of the time is spend in getting the timeStamp for the methods. > > Sure, that's for one package. But we don't just put everything in one package; we have like 20 packages for a large project. 20 x 3s is already a minute. Large ancestry and HTTP repository also has an influence. I've done several small optimizations (like adding caching) to speed things up. But still, MC speed in our case is rather measured in minutes than seconds :( Note that this is not package loading, but viewing the changes. And the 3 seconds is for a 1.5MB package. I doubt you have 20 x 1.5MB packages. Btw Keith's MC1.5/1.6 is really impressive. With Squeak 3.10.2 (no closures, no cog, no buffered files, etc) it takes 6.8 seconds to load RoelTyper + OCompletion. In a current Squeak image that takes 4.3 seconds with Cog. Levente > > Adrian > >

Dec. 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Linux VM with IA32ABI plugin (Alien)

by Eliot Miranda

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 2:49 AM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Hi all, > > I know that someone already manage to compile linux (squeak or cog) VM > with Alien support (plugin I32ABI). > Could someone, send me an already compiled VM? ;-) > > BTW, why the compiled linux VM available for download does not include > this plugin? > let me try again :) I'm pretty sure the plugin is present and internal in the Cog linux VM on my site. cheers Eliot > Thanks, > > #Luc >

Dec. 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Linux VM with IA32ABI plugin (Alien)

by Eliot Miranda

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 2:49 AM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Hi all, > > I know that someone already manage to compile linux (squeak or cog) VM > with Alien support (plugin I32ABI). > Could someone, send me an already compiled VM? ;-) > > BTW, why the compiled linux VM available for download does not include > this plugin? > I'm pretty sure it is in there as an internal plugin. best Eliot > > Thanks, > > #Luc >

Dec. 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Fuel - a fast object deployment tool

by Eliot Miranda

Hi Levente, 2010/12/9 Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> > On Thu, 9 Dec 2010, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > It does! >>>>>> It seems that you did not work in VW2.5 and 3.0 and when parcels >>>>>> arrived loading was realllllly a big difference >>>>>> I do not see why this would not the same with Fuel. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No I didn't, but the version number of VW is around 7.x now, so I guess >>>>> the CPUs and VMs are now several times faster. Does it really matter if it >>>>> takes 200ms or 20ms to load a package? >>>>> >>>> >>>> When I load a package with MC so far I still notice it and I would not >>>> even think about it. >>>> It should load in a unnoticeable amount of time. >>>> >>> >>> Do you think MC is "slow" because the Compiler is "slow"? >>> >> >> not totally but I do not understand why this is obligatory to compile >> everything all the time. >> Then Opal will be slower than the old comcrapiler. >> >> > I did a quick test where it took 4294ms to load RoelTyper + OCompletion > from disk (no socket creation, no network latency, etc). These packages > contain 790 methods. 5.1% of the total time was spent for compilation, > that's 219ms. The rest is used by other stuff like: > - loading the files from disk > - writing the source code to disk (sources/changes files) > - evaluating class side #initialize methods > - processing system change notifications > > Another 51ms was spent in creating 63 classes and 107ms to install the > CompiledMethods to the classes. So that's 219+51+107 = 377ms for creating > all classes and their methods. The rest is administration which can not be > avoided by binary loading. > > Even if binary loading is 10x faster than compiling the code (which I > doubt), then you save 339ms. So it would take only 3917ms to load these > packages. That would save you 7.9% of the total time. > One of the important features of the VW parcels work is that one does not write the source code to the changes file. Instead teh system has a SourceFileManager that works like a dictionary mapping file indices to source files, so instead of the two element SourceFileArray one has an arbitrarily large collection of files. When a parcel file is loaded its source file is added to the SFM which returns an index and then all the file pointers in the methods in the parcel are swizzled to refer to their sources' position in their files' index. We changed the format of file pointers so something resembling four floating-point formats so we can have lots of small files (more space for file indices) and a few large files (more space for file offsets) before one overflows into large integer file pointers. Now Igor's trailer work makes this approach feasible but one wouldn't need the funky floating-point format stuff because one could easily allocate, say, 5 bytes to the file pointer, two for the file index for a maximum of 64k source files, and 3 for the file offset for a maximum of 16m of source per parcel source file (I think splitting the 40 bits as 14:26 might be better but that's details). One needs to predetermine the size of the file pointer so that the trailer can be modified in place since changing the length of a trailer means allocating a new comp[iled method and that will be slow. If this approach is taken how much does that change your analysis? Note that not writing source to the changes file has ancilliary benefits; change recovery is now not polluted with package loads and the changes file does not grow as packages are added, only as one's changes are made. Unloading a package doesn't leave garbage in the changes files. There are downsides. Deploying a development image means deploying all the associated parcel source files as well, and for this a platform-independent Filename abstraction really helps. best Eliot > > Levente

Dec. 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Url comparison

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

Le 10 dÃ©c. 2010 Ã 18:46, StÃ©phane Ducasse a Ã©crit : >> Do you think #= is needed for Url ? (ie. do I open an issue ?) > > yes. ok, I'll do that > Now I do not understand why you need to convert to text. > printString should be enough. true... :) Do I add Url >> hash self printstring hash > > >> >> if yes, is the following proposition enough ? >> or should it be more precise according to each subclass ? >> >> See you >> >> >>> >>> 'http://www.pharo-project.org' asUrl = 'http://www.pharo-project.org' asUrl. => false >>> >>> What about having: >>> >>> Url>> = anotherUrl >>> >>> ^self asText = anotherUrl asText >>> >>> Do we need to redefine hash too ? >>> >>> TIA >>> >>> CÃ©drick >>> >> >> > >

Dec. 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] A suggestion.

by csrabak＠bol.com.br

I second your first assertion. However, although I find Chronos a fine package, I feel this is an interim solution, because we've other places we need i18n support, I propose this as subject for the next IRC meeting! -- Cesar Rabak Em 10/12/2010 11:58, StÃ©phane Ducasse < stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr > escreveu: The problem is that we should not change kernel methods. I suggest that we use chronos or chalten for localized applications. Stef > Hi folks. > > First make a question, in this list. > > String>>asDate message assume(harcode way) english date format.. may be.. > may be better if the date format to take it to a context variable as with the names of the months? > > Best..

Dec. 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Url comparison

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Do you think #= is needed for Url ? (ie. do I open an issue ?) yes. Now I do not understand why you need to convert to text. printString should be enough. > > if yes, is the following proposition enough ? > or should it be more precise according to each subclass ? > > See you > > >> >> 'http://www.pharo-project.org' asUrl = 'http://www.pharo-project.org' asUrl. => false >> >> What about having: >> >> Url>> = anotherUrl >> >> ^self asText = anotherUrl asText >> >> Do we need to redefine hash too ? >> >> TIA >> >> CÃ©drick >> > >

Dec. 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Ideas for HelpSystem

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

I would really to have that for pharo. Anybody looking for a small project with a big impact on the community? On Dec 10, 2010, at 5:17 PM, Damien Pollet wrote: > Hi all, > > The Ruby guys have a really nifty tool for code documentation (mainly > per-class, per-method etc, but README files are used as well and can > serve for tutorials). It's called Yard: http://yardoc.org/ > > Typically it's used to generate documentation, like javadoc, but it > can run as a web server with all the documentation of installed Ruby > packages (see http://www.rubyinside.com/the-3-step-guide-to-slick-local-documentation-for… > ) > > -- > Damien Pollet > type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >

Dec. 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Ideas for HelpSystem

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Dec 10, 2010, at 5:17 PM, Damien Pollet wrote: > Hi all, > > The Ruby guys have a really nifty tool for code documentation (mainly > per-class, per-method etc, but README files are used as well and can > serve for tutorials). It's called Yard: http://yardoc.org/ > > Typically it's used to generate documentation, like javadoc, but it > can run as a web server with all the documentation of installed Ruby > packages (see http://www.rubyinside.com/the-3-step-guide-to-slick-local-documentation-for… what do you mean by it can run as a web server? you have a system and a server and the docs are generated on the fly? > ) > > -- > Damien Pollet > type less, do more [ | ] http://people.untyped.org/damien.pollet >

Dec. 10, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Url comparison

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

Do you think #= is needed for Url ? (ie. do I open an issue ?) if yes, is the following proposition enough ? or should it be more precise according to each subclass ? See you > > 'http://www.pharo-project.org' asUrl = 'http://www.pharo-project.org' asUrl. => false > > What about having: > > Url>> = anotherUrl > > ^self asText = anotherUrl asText > > Do we need to redefine hash too ? > > TIA > > CÃ©drick >

Dec. 10, 2010