November 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] osx vm link is broken

by Tudor Girba

Thanks, Doru On 18 Nov 2010, at 21:30, Marcus Denker wrote: > > On Nov 17, 2010, at 2:13 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> It looks like the link to the latest regular VM for Mac OS X is broken: >> http://homepage.mac.com/johnmci/.Public/Squeak%204.2.5beta1U.app.zip >> >> Could it be fixed? > > > As a work-around, I have put a copy on gforge and linked to that. > > Marcus > > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Relationships are of two kinds: those we choose and those that happen. They both matter."

Nov. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] osx vm link is broken

by Marcus Denker

On Nov 17, 2010, at 2:13 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > It looks like the link to the latest regular VM for Mac OS X is broken: > http://homepage.mac.com/johnmci/.Public/Squeak%204.2.5beta1U.app.zip > > Could it be fixed? As a work-around, I have put a copy on gforge and linked to that. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

Nov. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Not happy with the issues feed from Google

by George Herolyants

2010/11/18 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: > What is the last time you read the bug archives to see what is happening there? > So if you do not read the archive then how can you help? how can we make sure that people are aware? Stef, I'm subscribed to some issues through standard Google Code "star this issue" feature. So, I'm aware of the changes happening to these bugs. I'm also subscribed to the RSS channel of the Pharo Google Code site, but I do not follow it closely so far -- just have not enough time. So my point is that interested people still are able to follow the bugflow without subscribing the whole list to the updates. And if you want to make sure people are aware of the work you're doing, I'd rather recommend you to pay more attention to the news page of the pharo-project.org website. And having a list of immediate goals and time line for them could also help, I think. Forcing people to follow all the minor activities happening on the tracker (I mean changing milestones, statuses and so on) won't rather help (IMHO). I've also created a filter to ignore all such messages after I've seen them flooding my inbox. So I even don't see them and this fact somehow contradicts to your point of making people aware. I still think important things are worth talking abouth them. I mean bootstraping from kernel or new compiler or something else but in the form of goals, plans, progress made and so on. Yeah, I know it's easier to speak than actually do :), but effect might be better. You may now ask, why I'm so concerned about this issue, if I do not even receive these autogenerated emails :) Ok, I just think that it's wrong. But I may be wrong too of course :) There are two things I find not practical. One of them is that replying to autogenerated mail in the list and not copying these replies to the tracker actually splits the discussion and makes it harder for people to track it later. The other thing is mailing list archives like the one on Nabble. It's just becoming harder to surfe them. And I'm not aware of the other opensource projects doing the same with their mailing lists. > What is the last time you look at the code of the fixes that got integrated? Because if you do not read > it how can we do quality control? So if I could I would send the diff of all the package in the mailing-lits as this is done in squeak. You can't do quality control this way. Everyone won't look at the code of these fixes, interested people are already looking at them so you won't gain anything. And it's iterative process after all: you make changes, people look at the code of these changes doing their job in Pharo, and if they're unhappy with these changes you'll know about it :) But important changes still need to be reviewed by experienced community members, no doubts here. > Now what we can do to please some of you so far 4, we could create a mailing-list where such mails would be sent. > But let us see so far who is really against. Don't get me wrong, I'm not extremely against this change. I just think that this is not the best way to achieve your goals. My apologies for the long mail. George

Nov. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Not happy with the issues feed from Google

by Tudor Girba

+1. Please keep it. I am not directly involved in these issues, but having the issues listed is actually informative. I was already reading the RSS feed of the Pharo issues, and at the beginning it was annoying to have the issues here too :). However, I realized that I was actually not reading the issues in the RSS, but in the current form it's somehow better exactly because I have to at least read the header to get to the next thread :). Cheers, Doru On 18 Nov 2010, at 20:11, Torsten Bergmann wrote: > Keep it, otherwise issue tracker activity is > hidden and now situation has really improved. > > It also reminds us on fixing or commenting on > issues beside all the discussion on the list. > > Note that beside http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/ > there is also http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-users > with less traffic. > > Thx > Torsten > > -- > GRATIS! Movie-FLAT mit Ã¼ber 300 Videos. > Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome > -- www.tudorgirba.com "One cannot do more than one can do."

Nov. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] osx vm link is broken

by John M McIntosh

Time marches onward and Apple has made some structural changes. I have to figure out now how best to rehost the files for easy access via http: On 2010-11-17, at 5:12 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > It looks like the link to the latest regular VM for Mac OS X is broken: > http://homepage.mac.com/johnmci/.Public/Squeak%204.2.5beta1U.app.zip > > Could it be fixed? > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." > > -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

Nov. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] osx vm link is broken

by John M McIntosh

This seems to be a problem that Apple Inc owns. I've opened a trouble ticket and we will see what they say. You can instead access the files via ftp://ftp.smalltalkconsulting.com On 2010-11-17, at 5:12 AM, Tudor Girba wrote: > Hi, > > It looks like the link to the latest regular VM for Mac OS X is broken: > http://homepage.mac.com/johnmci/.Public/Squeak%204.2.5beta1U.app.zip > > Could it be fixed? > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Not knowing how to do something is not an argument for how it cannot be done." > > -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

Nov. 18, 2010

[Pharo-project] Not happy with the issues feed from Google

by Torsten Bergmann

Keep it, otherwise issue tracker activity is hidden and now situation has really improved. It also reminds us on fixing or commenting on issues beside all the discussion on the list. Note that beside http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/ there is also http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-users with less traffic. Thx Torsten -- GRATIS! Movie-FLAT mit Ã¼ber 300 Videos. Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome

Nov. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] ANyone have a fix for Scanner isLiteralSymbol: #<=?

by Juan Vuletich

Hi Eliot, Eliot Miranda wrote: > Hi All, > > In trunk > > Scanner isLiteralSymbol: #<= > > ... It works ok in Cuis. You can see #isLiteralSymbol: there. BTW, this was changed when I integrated the Compiler package from you, in April this year. If you want to see what else changed then, see change sets 0482, 0483 and 0484 in the Cuis updates. You can get Cuis and the zip file with the updates from http://www.jvuletich.org/Cuis/Index.html . Cheers, Juan Vuletich

Nov. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] Not happy with the issues feed from Google

by Igor Stasenko

+1 i don't read all mails, but at least by seeing in subject, i have an idea that there are some activity around some issue. Also, in case if something attracts my attention, where i feel i can be helpful, i can easy click on message and read it. In contrast, when all tracker activity is hidden inside issue tracker, i have no chances to be aware who doing what and what problem is attacked by people, unless i cc-ed to this issue as well. 'Tracking' tracker by manually inspecting every single issue is time sink. So, i think couple of extra lines in mails list worth it, because it helps to people to be aware of what others do. Of course i'm not happy with it as well. Most messages are not quite informative , but its up to those who posting them: make posts more elaborate , so others could understand what is it about, where the problem etc etc. On 18 November 2010 19:33, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > +1 > > Sorry guys this is not optimal but after been against when I see it in squeak, I'm in favor because it > helps understanding what is happening. > > Sorry to be blunt but > ****YOU**** yes you guys do not look at the bug or bug fixes in general. > > So often ME myself and I, have to send email about point from the archive to the mailing-list. > Often I do not even see that a bug has been posted and YES I have 5 rss feed and I read them all. > > What is the last time you read the bug archives to see what is happening there? > So if you do not read the archive then how can you help? how can we make sure that people are aware? > > What is the last time you look at the code of the fixes that got integrated? Because if you do not read > it how can we do quality control? So if I could I would send the diff of all the package in the mailing-lits as this is done in squeak. > > Now what we can do to please some of you so far 4, we could create a mailing-list where such mails would be sent. > But let us see so far who is really against. > > Stef > > >> Remember that most email client support filters. You can easily create one. >> >> Cheers >> >> Mariano > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Nov. 18, 2010

Re: [Pharo-project] XOR: don't recieve a block

by Diogenes Moreira

Do not know if this matters, but I'm seeing a copy of the definition of the definition smalltalk ANSI 1997 and xor: should receive both blocks and Booleans Ill trying send to you. On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On Nov 18, 2010, at 6:58 PM, Levente Uzonyi wrote: > >> On Thu, 18 Nov 2010, Marcus Denker wrote: >> >>> >>> On Nov 18, 2010, at 6:34 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> & | Â don't >>>> Do not cnfuse lazy and the others. >>> >>> >>> true xor: [false] >>> >>> --> walkback. >>> >>> false xor: [false] >>> >>> --> [false] >>> >>> There is a call to #value missing (which will keep it working with booleans, too, as they understand >>> #value, too (returning self)). >> >> That's a possible solution, but xor can't be lazy, so the block is just pointless. >> > So the question is if we do it for consistency... > (between or:, and:, xor:. They are so close that it's strange to have different parameters for them. > > On the negative side, it does cost a send of #value (quick return self) for > the case that one calls it on a boolean... > > Â Â Â Â Marcus > > -- > Marcus Denker Â -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > >

Nov. 18, 2010